Rollers vs. flails

[SmokinM]

Thinking about upgrading from my disc mower to a MOCO type machine. How much time does it really cut off your cure time? Also what type is better a roller or flail machine. Is it worth looking at used or is that a better off new purchase? Last but not least the loaded question of what brand machine?

Cutting between 150 and 200 acres of mostly grass hay in central Virginia if that makes any difference. Spring cut is always tight getting a window to dry it in then summer time comes and if you have enough rain to grow hay it is so humid drying it is a beast.

Thanks for the help!

 

[Atimm693]

Flails are good for tough grass. Rolls are better for alfalfa or any delicate crops.

Flails are better for rocky ground too. Rolls will toss the rocks back into the cutters and play badminton with it.

 

[Aaron]

Lots of guys don't like flails. Especially the alfalfa guys. But alfalfa guys here all use flails and their bales are loaded with leaves. Work great in the stones and bottom land with sticks - just goes on through. Plus much simpler/easier to maintain with just one set of roller bearings.

If I had to do rolls, it would be steel rolls. Once the rubber is off, the machine is junk.

 

[cfpinz]

I've got 2 Vermeer machines with steel rollers and my father has a NH with the flails. I honestly can't see any difference in dry down times in comparable hay. After using his NH 1412 with the flails, I had made up my mind to buy one of those but ran across a good deal on another Vermeer with the steel rollers.

The NH machines pull a lot easier than the others I've been around. I wouldn't have a problem pulling his 10-1/2' NH with 65 PTO hp, but feel 85 PTO hp is the minimum for my 10-1/2' Vermeer. Plus the maintenance is simpler on the NH.

Based on construction, I'd wager the NH will not hold up to abuse as well as some of the other manufacturers. The lighter weight and ease of pulling has to come at a cost.

If the size fits your operation, I'd recommend a NH 7330. Wait a few months and you should be able to pick up a really nice used one in the off season for 10-14k.

 

[SmokinM]

Thanks for the feedback and recommendations. Have looked at several NH over the years they are by far the most popular here. Maybe that will make finding one easier.

 

[chevytaHOE5674]

Currently have a steel roller discbine. Wanting to add a 2nd machine to the fleet and unless I find a good deal on something I want to get a flail machine. I've seen a little better dry down on thick grass with flails.

 

[Texasmark]

If you are running grass, like Ky 31 crimp not necessary. If you are running anything with a stem (Haygrazer type products for sure) you really are shooting yourself in the foot if you don't crimp. I recently got back into sicklebar (small investment) MOCOs to get the crimp integral to the cutter and to get a cutter that left some stubble. Had several JDs and a couple of NH over the years.

The current machine is a Ford 538 and the rollers are made from 12 ply (give or take) tire discs, cut with the up down pattern of crimpers in general, then packed tightly on a steel shaft. The cutter is a 1988 model and the rollers look like new....one of the reasons I chose the Ford brand......"cutter" type vs flail since I have no rocks and land is pretty level.

 

[1982vett]

What...none of you have wet fire ant hill issues? They can mud up a roller pretty good here if your not patient enough to let them dry out a little before cutting.

 

[Texasmark]

What...none of you have wet fire ant hill issues? They can mud up a roller pretty good here if your not patient enough to let them dry out a little before cutting.

Those are the reason I stopped (thought I stopped) using a sickle type cutter and why, when using one, I quit doing custom baling. On my hay patches, I keep the ants running for cover......but then there are the "crawdad" mounds.

 

[Silver]

Lots of guys don't like flails. Especially the alfalfa guys. But alfalfa guys here all use flails and their bales are loaded with leaves. Work great in the stones and bottom land with sticks - just goes on through. Plus much simpler/easier to maintain with just one set of roller bearings.

If I had to do rolls, it would be steel rolls. Once the rubber is off, the machine is junk.

My last machine was a JD 956 with flails. I really like the flails. I could put a tree through the thing and not hurt it, and I also felt it was easier on alfalfa and green feed oats as well. I have and NH 313 now with rolls, great machine but I miss the flails.

 

[SmokinM]

Glad I asked a lot of good feedback here,I was leaning towards rollers before sounds like I was wrong. What are the big wear parts to look at on a used machine? Am I right to be leery of trade ins at a dealer?

 

[cfpinz]

Glad I asked a lot of good feedback here,I was leaning towards rollers before sounds like I was wrong. What are the big wear parts to look at on a used machine? Am I right to be leery of trade ins at a dealer?

Slop in the cutterbar - stop by the house and I'll show you one tight one and one loose one side by side! :lol2:

Other than that - bearings, pins, bushings, driveline, etc. On the flails, check the amount of wear and the pivot holes.

 

[Aaron]

Glad I asked a lot of good feedback here,I was leaning towards rollers before sounds like I was wrong. What are the big wear parts to look at on a used machine? Am I right to be leery of trade ins at a dealer?

Honestly if you buy a used one, just ask the dealer what the cost would be to rebuild the entire cutterbar. Then you know how much wiggle room you have when you factor in what the machine is priced at.

 

[littletom]

We have to 926 moco's one with flail one with rollers. We only do grass run them in fields together don't see a big difference. If you are running a open tractor the flails one of ours is crazy loud.

 

[Stocker Steve]

Rollers are not recommended for reducing grass drying time. I thought folks living in wet areas used disc mowers and tedders. Have you looked into this combo?

 

[chevytaHOE5674]

I can dry hay one day sooner with my roller machine than I can with my straight disc mower been proven in the field time and time again. To me 1 day is a significant reduction in dry down.

 

[Stocker Steve]

I can dry hay one day sooner with my roller machine than I can with my straight disc mower been proven in the field time and time again. To me 1 day is a significant reduction in dry down.

Straight grass?
Have you tried a tedder?

 

[SmokinM]

Rollers are not recommended for reducing grass drying time. I thought folks living in wet areas used disc mowers and tedders. Have you looked into this combo?

That's what I am running now. You won't make hay here first cutting without a Tedder wether you have a conditioner or not. If I can shave a day off that is huge in the spring especially, usually one day short on my window to get it made. Then if I can eliminate the Tedder for summer cuts that adds up fast too. My current Tedder would cost about 10k to replace and they are a high wear machine that is a beast to move. Right now I usually have to tedd hay at least twice to get it dry especially in spring so eliminating a pass or two is huge savings in itself.

Came home to a desert when I left up there. Finally got some rain and now it won't stop and hay is getting pretty rank again. Humidity here has been unbearable for almost a month. I should have stayed at the lake too!

 

[Texasmark]

Glad I asked a lot of good feedback here,I was leaning towards rollers before sounds like I was wrong. What are the big wear parts to look at on a used machine? Am I right to be leery of trade ins at a dealer?

Wobble box to sickle bar interface on JD 1209, input Ujoint at mower end on closed shaft NHs, forget the number; dubber drive belt on Ford 538. All..... wear and tear/proper adjustment on sickle guides, packing in hydraulic cylinders.

 

[chevytaHOE5674]

Straight grass hay. I have a tedder and hate to use it. If weather forces my hand I will but otherwise it stays parked. Our rough ground is hard on fragile tedders and for a one man operation that is alot of tractor hours I try to avoid. Our first and only cutting isn't until early July so by then the ground has usually dried up, days are long, crop is nearing maturity, and the air is dry so its usually not a problem. Also don't have overly dense crops as our soils are poor and hardly anybody fertilizes as lime and fert must be hauled a few hundred miles to get here from the coop.