hillsdown
Well-known member
If you rent hay land for 40 dollars an acre would you assume that would include the second cut?First cut was mid July and averaged 4-5 large rounds to an acre.What would you expect.Thanks to all.
Rented hay land.
- Thread starter hillsdown
- Start date
Help Support CattleToday:
tytower
Well-known member
What did your lease agreement say about cutting?
Price may be reduced as the owner planned on grazing after the first cut or cutting it himself for feed
Hope its in writing ,this word of mouth ,shake of a hand stuff is useless when there is a mis-understanding .
Price may be reduced as the owner planned on grazing after the first cut or cutting it himself for feed
Hope its in writing ,this word of mouth ,shake of a hand stuff is useless when there is a mis-understanding .
Bez>
Well-known member
hillsdown":1puluqg1 said:
Rent the land - use it - full season - if you get 4 cuts then so be it - it is yours.
Rent a house - does that mean you do not use the front yard? Or does that mean you stay out of the kitchen?
Renting means - in my eyes - use of. And also proper care of said land.
Yes, you are correct - otherwise all you are doing is buying standing hay.
And you can do that anywhere.
Probably cheaper to buy that standing hay - rented land means work on someone elses land with a risk of no return.
If the owner is trying to pony up more money from you I would very politely tell them to take a hike. Cut the orignal amount agreed to in a cheque and let them manage on their own - too much trouble to worry about.
Next year when there is only a very small crop and no second cut - let's see how many want to rent the land.
Perhaps I am reading too much into this - but it seems you may be in this situation.
More details if I am off the mark.
Regards
Bez>
OP
OP
hillsdown
Well-known member
Thanks Bez and TY so here is the whole story.
Neighbor sold his cows so he doesn't need hay. We spoke and first I said I wanted all of his hay in '07. Then he suggested that we bale and cut it ourselves. The end price was 40 dollars an acre which is actually under normal circumstances quite pricey but with the year we have had it is very reasonable. My thinking was ,that price was for the season but now it sounds like he has approached my other neighbors about putting cows on it.
Yeppers it was just a friendly agreement with no contract. I don't want to pee this guy off as I would like the land again next year but he changed his price of the land three times before I finally got him locked in at that price. Next year contract, contract, contract.Anyways I think I am screwed this year and just might have to let it go.
Neighbor sold his cows so he doesn't need hay. We spoke and first I said I wanted all of his hay in '07. Then he suggested that we bale and cut it ourselves. The end price was 40 dollars an acre which is actually under normal circumstances quite pricey but with the year we have had it is very reasonable. My thinking was ,that price was for the season but now it sounds like he has approached my other neighbors about putting cows on it.
Yeppers it was just a friendly agreement with no contract. I don't want to pee this guy off as I would like the land again next year but he changed his price of the land three times before I finally got him locked in at that price. Next year contract, contract, contract.Anyways I think I am screwed this year and just might have to let it go.
LaneFarms
Well-known member
For $40/acre it would be for an entire year or I would not have paid it.
hillsdown":10mf8ihg said:
Unless I had a written contract explicitly stating the terms and length of rental, as well as cost per acre, who does what, and who gets what - I wouldn't expect anything. With the hay situation the way it is, there are simply too many people out there with $$ signs in their eyes.
Bez>
Well-known member
hillsdown":378mn75q said:
Sorry to hear this has happened - when times are not as good I will be curious to see what happens.
I am too crusty I guess - I would never set foot on that land again.
Contract or not he will be a problem in the future.
I learned the hard way - lost a big piece of ground under contract about three years ago - the response was -a "Well, take me to court if you want." - now I buy standing hay - a buck a foot on the bale length or diametre.
No input costs for fert and I just pay for what I take.
This year people are lining up - I'll probably have three years worth of hay when I am done. Average price on 5 foot rounds will be under 15 bucks a bale stacked in the yard and covered.
I do not mind feeding good bales that are one to two years old - cows do just fine on them. So next year I might just not do any hay at all.
I figure hay production costs are going to go way up - so I might just save some big bucks - for one year anyways.
We will see.
Bez>
Jogeephus
Well-known member
I would expect to be able to use it for the whole season. If he was talking to my neighbors about leasing it to them for their cows I'd tell them I already had it leased. If they stuck cows on it - which they wouldn't out of respect for me - I'd have little or no respect for them.
Always remember, the world is round. ;-)
Always remember, the world is round. ;-)
OP
OP
hillsdown
Well-known member
Thank you all for your responses.I think I will let it go this year and try and negotiate a full season deal for next year.
Live and learn I am not that old but not that young and your word has always been your word so I will just move on.If I told my neighbors as they are really good friends they would side with me even though we are the newest members to the community but I don't want to ruffle anyone's feathers and cause problems so I will let it go.
Thanks everyone again for your input.
Live and learn I am not that old but not that young and your word has always been your word so I will just move on.If I told my neighbors as they are really good friends they would side with me even though we are the newest members to the community but I don't want to ruffle anyone's feathers and cause problems so I will let it go.
Thanks everyone again for your input.
Bez>
Well-known member
\hillsdown":7k8ylbrp said:
You just hold your head up high and think about how I buy hay.
Your neighbour may be real happy to see you when it does not rain for a few weeks next year. One never knows what tomorrow will bring.
"Goes around comes around"
Regards
Bez>
Stocker Steve
Well-known member
There always seems to be a couple aggressive types who try to make a dollar off their neighbors. I don't understand where this comes from, but I would deal with it up front - - this was my understanding and this is what I think is FAIR. The hell with next year.
You will get no respect or consideration or long term business relationship if you bend over and hope it comes out long term. Make your point politely and move on if they are not willing to listen.
You will get no respect or consideration or long term business relationship if you bend over and hope it comes out long term. Make your point politely and move on if they are not willing to listen.
rkm
Well-known member
Steve is right. You need to show a little back bone. If you don't say anything this time don't expect to be treated different the next time.
Jogeephus
Well-known member
I think I would definitely tell my neighbor I already had it leased. If I was considering renting it, I would want to know the sob did that to you cause lord only knows what he is going to try and pull on me. In my eyes, you'd be doing me a favor.
I wouldnt make a federal case out of it, but I would definitely speak with the guy you are renting it from anout what my understanding of the agreement was. He may not be a bad guy after all and that might just be enough for him. If he didnt see it your way I would, politely and non-judgementally, explain the prediciment to the neighbors considering putting cows on it. I wouldnt tell them what to do, but merely let them do what they thought was the right thing. Depending on the land owners reaction when I spoke with him would temper my future dealing, if any, with him. To me, I think 40 an acre for a single cut is highway robbery.
OP
OP
hillsdown
Well-known member
OK,, so basically you are all saying that I was dumb and should have done more research before making a deal. I know.... but I didn't want to miss out on this land as it is connected to mine and we can haul the hay ourselves. If I have to buy hay it is usually 60-70 dollars a ton and I still have to pay 5 -10 $'s per bale to get it in my yard.I will talk to him as I still have to pay him.Maybe by then I will get a back bone ;-) . I am not going to cause waves as this is just wayyyyyy to convenient at this time.Lesson learned and thank you everyone for your input.
This board is great.
This board is great.
Jogeephus
Well-known member
I don't think anyone said you were dumb, I know I didn't. Similar thing happened to me once. At the encouragement of a neighbor, I subleased the winter grazing from the farmer who leased it. He and I struck the deal. After spending around $800 on fence repairs and gates, $3500 on fertilizer and seed the owner asked me to pay him rent! 
I explained to him - in a nice way - that the farmer's lease was for the year and I didn't feel I owed him a thing. We still get along but I don't go out of my way to do him any favors anymore.
I explained to him - in a nice way - that the farmer's lease was for the year and I didn't feel I owed him a thing. We still get along but I don't go out of my way to do him any favors anymore.I luv herfrds
Well-known member
It sounds like a live and learn thing.
I don't think anybody thought you were stupid. We all have to admit we have done the same thing and either came away clean or burned.
Right now have a verbal agreement with a neighbor to store the local fire companies main truck in his heated shop. He just asked that we put some furnace fuel in the tank, we were paying him $100.00 a yr for storage. Now he is renting the place to another couple and they have been making noise about the truck. Going to corral him and do a written lease just to cover both of or butts.
The couple does not like me, but that is another story.
I don't think anybody thought you were stupid. We all have to admit we have done the same thing and either came away clean or burned.
Right now have a verbal agreement with a neighbor to store the local fire companies main truck in his heated shop. He just asked that we put some furnace fuel in the tank, we were paying him $100.00 a yr for storage. Now he is renting the place to another couple and they have been making noise about the truck. Going to corral him and do a written lease just to cover both of or butts.
The couple does not like me, but that is another story.
hillsdown":2cdrufze said:
I wouldnt say you were stupid, just human.
But moving on......I wouldnt pay him the money unless you came to an agreement. Just becasue he thinks the agreement was different than you think it was doesnt make the money his. It may be time to re-negotiate. Definitely time to sit down over a cup of coffee or a coke and come to a mutual understanding. If you cant come together at least you will both know where the other is.
cowtrek
Well-known member
I hate guys like that. Their word is absolutely worthless and so in my eyes that makes them just about as worthless. That is why you can't take folks at their word anymore for any more than you're willing to lose. The guy sounds like an opportunist looking to make a buck off anybody and everybody he can sucker into a deal and twist it around on them.
We used to do custom combining for a guy like this. He made all kinds of promises about how we could cut his grain every year and it'd be win-win. He needed haulers (this was the 70's) and so we lined up a family friend to haul at .25 cents/cwt for him with his bobtail truck. We bought at brand new $12,000 combine and he bought a $10,000 Big 12 auger cart and we went to work. Well, guess what? The guy found another guy willing to haul a little cheaper so he ran our friend off, then he found a guy who over contracted on grain who offered to cut his grain for free and pay market price to fill his contract. At 2 pm that afternoon it was 'sorry I don't need you anymore, yall can take your machine home'. So now we had a big combine note and lost our main custom job. This guy was a big farmer and wanted us to take on his work because he didn't want to get hot and dusty combining his own grain, and we were small farmers and wouldn't have bought a big new combine if we couldn't pay for it with custom work. To top it off, the guy went to the same church my Grandpa did. After the season, he bought a brand new Cadillac to show off how much money he made. Thankfully the Lord was looking out for us and we picked up enough custom jobs to pay the machine off. This guy got the reputation that, as one of his neighbors at the coffee shop told me one time, "he'd cut his own mother's throat to rent another hundred acres out from under you". The guy had tried to rent his neighbor's farm right out from under him by appealing to his mother to rent the farm to him and put her own son off the place. Guys like this get what's coming to them eventually. He went broke a few years ago and is long gone.
I've got a 'foriegn' neighbor up the road (sandy fellow from one of the "Jerkistans") who sent his son over to BEG me to bale hay for him when I was baling another neighbors field across the road. Slick talk and slick promises and all that. I was noncomittal. The elderly gentleman I was baling for had come out to the field to watch me bale and told me after the young guy left "watch him, he asks every custom guy I hire to come bale for him and then he refuses to pay them when the job's done." I checked around and found this to be true. Guess that's why he had an 8 foot cyclone fence around his place like an Al Quaida training camp. I also found out that's the typical way of doing business in whatever Jerkistan he came from. The guy got the reputation and NOBODY would deal with him at all. Thankfully the guy is long gone now.
The one thing I've learned is that no deal is better than a bad deal. I simply refuse to do business with a guy with a sh!tty reputation no matter how lucrative it appears. I try my best to keep my word on every deal or make it right if for some reason I can't and I don't expect anything less from the other side. You said this is so close to home and such a win-win, but being in the hole at the end of the day doesn't sound very win-win to me. Personally I'd rather haul my hay another 15-20 miles than get screwed over by a lousy nieghbor you can't trust. Better to be out $40/acre than a couple thousand but still a crook's a crook and I personally won't do business with them. Good luck! OL JR
We used to do custom combining for a guy like this. He made all kinds of promises about how we could cut his grain every year and it'd be win-win. He needed haulers (this was the 70's) and so we lined up a family friend to haul at .25 cents/cwt for him with his bobtail truck. We bought at brand new $12,000 combine and he bought a $10,000 Big 12 auger cart and we went to work. Well, guess what? The guy found another guy willing to haul a little cheaper so he ran our friend off, then he found a guy who over contracted on grain who offered to cut his grain for free and pay market price to fill his contract. At 2 pm that afternoon it was 'sorry I don't need you anymore, yall can take your machine home'. So now we had a big combine note and lost our main custom job. This guy was a big farmer and wanted us to take on his work because he didn't want to get hot and dusty combining his own grain, and we were small farmers and wouldn't have bought a big new combine if we couldn't pay for it with custom work. To top it off, the guy went to the same church my Grandpa did. After the season, he bought a brand new Cadillac to show off how much money he made. Thankfully the Lord was looking out for us and we picked up enough custom jobs to pay the machine off. This guy got the reputation that, as one of his neighbors at the coffee shop told me one time, "he'd cut his own mother's throat to rent another hundred acres out from under you". The guy had tried to rent his neighbor's farm right out from under him by appealing to his mother to rent the farm to him and put her own son off the place. Guys like this get what's coming to them eventually. He went broke a few years ago and is long gone.
I've got a 'foriegn' neighbor up the road (sandy fellow from one of the "Jerkistans") who sent his son over to BEG me to bale hay for him when I was baling another neighbors field across the road. Slick talk and slick promises and all that. I was noncomittal. The elderly gentleman I was baling for had come out to the field to watch me bale and told me after the young guy left "watch him, he asks every custom guy I hire to come bale for him and then he refuses to pay them when the job's done." I checked around and found this to be true. Guess that's why he had an 8 foot cyclone fence around his place like an Al Quaida training camp. I also found out that's the typical way of doing business in whatever Jerkistan he came from. The guy got the reputation and NOBODY would deal with him at all. Thankfully the guy is long gone now.
The one thing I've learned is that no deal is better than a bad deal. I simply refuse to do business with a guy with a sh!tty reputation no matter how lucrative it appears. I try my best to keep my word on every deal or make it right if for some reason I can't and I don't expect anything less from the other side. You said this is so close to home and such a win-win, but being in the hole at the end of the day doesn't sound very win-win to me. Personally I'd rather haul my hay another 15-20 miles than get screwed over by a lousy nieghbor you can't trust. Better to be out $40/acre than a couple thousand but still a crook's a crook and I personally won't do business with them. Good luck! OL JR
Jogeephus
Well-known member
cowtrek":abk01zfd said:
We call them Bible Toters here. I bet he's got the biggest Bible in the church, probably an elder or a deacon as well. I know the type all too well. Thankfully, as you found out, God knows the difference and he didn't allow you to lose your shirt.
Your good reputation will preced you as will his bad.
