Remington Arms moving 2,000+ jobs from NY to Alabama

[highgrit]

Rental properties and the blacks. If you don't own property, and or you don't pay taxes you should not be able to vote.

 

[Hook]

Rental properties and the blacks. If you don't own property, and or you don't pay taxes you should not be able to vote.

Or receive gvt assistance.

 

[Dega Moo]

This movement just might be the second coming we all have been praying for.
By that I mean, companies moving from high tax areas just might be what it takes for liberal minded voters to understand " tax and spend " politics is not the answer.
Liz

I know that high tax rates are posed as some kind of poster child for businesses but most businesses are pretty good at reducing their tax liabilities to minor amounts. I think location vis-a-vis markets and skilled labor are greater concerns than taxes.

On the other hand, what is truly onerous for many businesses is the myriad regulations and regulatory agencies wanting involved in just about every decision a business makes. The EPA appears to be in bed with Sierra Club, if not fully married to them and their policies and regulations especially at a state level, can grievously impact a business ability to stay afloat. These regulatory groups are used to promote a political agenda.

 

[HDRider]

What is the common denominator?

You might think that, but I'd say you'd be wrong.

Urban dwellers are more vulnerable to indoctrination to believe no one is at fault for their own bad luck.

White guilt. - Generosity with means not your own, so why not vote to give it away.
NYC 44% White - 25% Black
LA 50% White - 9% Black
Chicago 45% White - 32% Black
Houston 50%/23%
Phoenix 66%/6%

And so on, so you tell me....

 

[Dega Moo]

The only thing I worry about is that these northern companies move down and bring some of their northern employees and suppliers with them who in turn bring their liberal way of thinking and they try to turn the conservative south into the state that they just left. Sort of like the illegal aliens want to turn the US into the very corrupt Mexico that the fled. Other than that I hope they hire mostly local folks.

Basically that's done happened - it's over for the most part - and all demographic projections I hear about say it's just a matter of time before all the conservative stronghold are overrun with liberals, Hispanics, Latinos, Asians, Indians and Eastern Europeans. Gerrymandering has pretty well locked us into the current congressional impasse but the above named groups come by their liberal leanings more naturally and will over time break the gerrymandering hold in most conservative areas. We're talking fifteen to twenty years in the making but it is happening and there are few legal means of thwarting that outcome. Our best hope is to out breed them, alas all these minority groups appear to be highly fertile.

 

[greybeard]

Common Denominator:
Their Hands.
One stuck in other people's pockets and the other stuck out.
Hard to work when both your hands are busy taking what isn't yours.

 

[boondocks]

First, other sources note that the new Remington plant is an expansion and will not take away from the plant in Ilion NY--which is literally down the road from me, and I know many people who work there.
Second, to those of you afraid that Remington may bring darn Yankees with their crazy liberal ideas down your way: please be advised that this is a very rural/small town farming area. Very hardscrabble, and quite Republican, I might add, FWIW. Lots of hunting, ATVing...most of you (y'all?) would feel quite at home up here. Well, other than the subzero temps. And you'd have to learn snowmobiling.
Third: When did it become a conservative value to take up for a huge bunch of crazy rich guys over a fellow working man? Remington is not your grandpa's (or greatgrandma's) gun manufacturer. It's now owned by Cerberus, a New York City-based private equity firm whose founder has a net worth (per Forbes) of 1 billion. How much is he gonna pay the workers at that new plant? And what local and state "incentives" (read: bribes paid with taxpayer money) were given in order to entice His Nibs to locate his plant in Alabama?

I for one am tired of the corporate welfare. Thanks to "free trade", we've lost so much American manufacturing that the little bit that's left, we all fight over the scraps, while the robber barons eat caviar. Worse yet, we turn on each other, dividing into "red" and "blue" states.

These constant plant relocations/closings/reopenings are just a race to the bottom. Think we're about there... They won't pay a living wage, so the rest of the taxpayers have to also kick in and subsidize many of these great new jobs: on the front end, with tax abatements, etc.; on the middle end, with health care and other help, since the jobs often don't come with it now; and on the back end, when they pack up and leave, and leave behind a rusting plant and toxic waste. But that's "Capitalism", so we applaud it, right?

 

[inyati13]

First, other sources note that the new Remington plant is an expansion and will not take away from the plant in Ilion NY--which is literally down the road from me, and I know many people who work there.
Second, to those of you afraid that Remington may bring darn Yankees with their crazy liberal ideas down your way: please be advised that this is a very rural/small town farming area. Very hardscrabble, and quite Republican, I might add, FWIW. Lots of hunting, ATVing...most of you (y'all?) would feel quite at home up here. Well, other than the subzero temps. And you'd have to learn snowmobiling.
Third: When did it become a conservative value to take up for a huge bunch of crazy rich guys over a fellow working man? Remington is not your grandpa's (or greatgrandma's) gun manufacturer. It's now owned by Cerberus, a New York City-based private equity firm whose founder has a net worth (per Forbes) of 1 billion. How much is he gonna pay the workers at that new plant? And what local and state "incentives" (read: bribes paid with taxpayer money) were given in order to entice His Nibs to locate his plant in Alabama?

I for one am tired of the corporate welfare. Thanks to "free trade", we've lost so much American manufacturing that the little bit that's left, we all fight over the scraps, while the robber barons eat caviar. Worse yet, we turn on each other, dividing into "red" and "blue" states.

These constant plant relocations/closings/reopenings are just a race to the bottom. Think we're about there... They won't pay a living wage, so the rest of the taxpayers have to also kick in and subsidize many of these great new jobs: on the front end, with tax abatements, etc.; on the middle end, with health care and other help, since the jobs often don't come with it now; and on the back end, when they pack up and leave, and leave behind a rusting plant and toxic waste. But that's "Capitalism", so we applaud it, right?

Good that the discussion is broadened, boondocks. Having lived out west in three of the core Rocky Mtn States, I was amazed how little western folks understood about the east. They view the entire east as an urban area. I have traveled up state New York. Not many places on earth are quite like the Adirondacks. But the folks in Montana hear New York and they think the entire State is urban. Not being critical, in fact, it is easy to understand. You also make a good point about the division of the nation.
BTW: People would be amazed at some of the remote countryside in Kentucky and West Virginia!

On politics, I am not going to bash "capitalism" not because there are not plenty of issues with the concept but because it seems to have worked better than most forms of socioeconomic concepts. I will just balance what you say with this: Capitalism has been tainted in this country by politics. In the beginning, there was real capitalism and that does not mean it was without corruption. Anything that man pursues will be corrupted. But now markets are so altered by economic polices and subsidies that real markets do not exist. If you take the government out of the cattle industry and the consumer had to pay what it really costs to put a steak on his dinner plate there would be very few people eating beef!!!! The government has everything so askew from interfering in the "price of eggs" that no one knows what the "real market" is for most enterprise. It was revealing that Republicans are now realizing that you cannot stop borrowing about 40 cents on every dollar to keep the economy running. Why? Because our real economy now is "The Government". No one has a solution or alternative that the people including those who complain most would be willing to live with because everyone wants Uncle Sam's handouts.

Last point, IMO the concentration of wealth and its control by a small minority of people is not a good symptom of the way Capitalism should work. Something has to give one of these days!!!!

 

[Caustic Burno]

First, other sources note that the new Remington plant is an expansion and will not take away from the plant in Ilion NY--which is literally down the road from me, and I know many people who work there.
Second, to those of you afraid that Remington may bring darn Yankees with their crazy liberal ideas down your way: please be advised that this is a very rural/small town farming area. Very hardscrabble, and quite Republican, I might add, FWIW. Lots of hunting, ATVing...most of you (y'all?) would feel quite at home up here. Well, other than the subzero temps. And you'd have to learn snowmobiling.
Third: When did it become a conservative value to take up for a huge bunch of crazy rich guys over a fellow working man? Remington is not your grandpa's (or greatgrandma's) gun manufacturer. It's now owned by Cerberus, a New York City-based private equity firm whose founder has a net worth (per Forbes) of 1 billion. How much is he gonna pay the workers at that new plant? And what local and state "incentives" (read: bribes paid with taxpayer money) were given in order to entice His Nibs to locate his plant in Alabama?

I for one am tired of the corporate welfare. Thanks to "free trade", we've lost so much American manufacturing that the little bit that's left, we all fight over the scraps, while the robber barons eat caviar. Worse yet, we turn on each other, dividing into "red" and "blue" states.

These constant plant relocations/closings/reopenings are just a race to the bottom. Think we're about there... They won't pay a living wage, so the rest of the taxpayers have to also kick in and subsidize many of these great new jobs: on the front end, with tax abatements, etc.; on the middle end, with health care and other help, since the jobs often don't come with it now; and on the back end, when they pack up and leave, and leave behind a rusting plant and toxic waste. But that's "Capitalism", so we applaud it, right?

I will tell you when.
First when the WWII generation started leaving the leadership of our country the slide started as they viewed us American's even in disagreements. And looked at what is best for the country. The leadership of the country had formed a common bond with our fellow country men. This was caused by a depression and World War as every American had to pay something to the ultimate for the ride.
Secondly when the media that is located in the major metropolitan areas NY started there aggressive campaign against everything that had made this country strong by providing good middle class jobs. Think EPA. This has been a propaganda campaign only Hitler would envy and indoctrination through our public schools.
Thirdly as the liberal blue machine gained power more and more jobs went over seas.
I never thought in my lifetime I would see a President of either party keep 40,000 Americans from going to work on good high paying jobs.
Keystone ring a bell. We haven't built a major oil refinery in this country since 1974 and that was in La. we have tore down and shutdown a pile of them. Why the EPA again all the saw mills of East Texas are gone along with the jobs why the EPA. I could go on and on.
You can't have your cake and eat it to. They are currently after the coal industry, we just happen to have the worlds largest reserves of cheap energy. Wonder what that will do to industry as they drive the cost even higher.
What started as a watch dog has turned into an albatross run by a dictator.
Capitalism is not the problem Socialism is this aint your grandpa's Democratic party anymore.
A republican today is more liberal than a democrat of my youth.
The strength of the country started for the septic tank with our slide to the left.

Time to go harass more coyotes.

 

[inyati13]

Afterthought, on the left the big entitlements have moved us toward socialism. On the right, the corporate handouts have moved us toward socialism. The two parties have cleverly serviced their constituents and have them following them like sheep so they can continue to stay in power. During all of this, they have divided a nation and have all of us missing the point that both the right and left have robbed us of our freedom, enslaved us and turned us into the biggest debtor nation the world has ever seen.

 

[fitz]

First, other sources note that the new Remington plant is an expansion and will not take away from the plant in Ilion NY--which is literally down the road from me, and I know many people who work there.
Second, to those of you afraid that Remington may bring darn Yankees with their crazy liberal ideas down your way: please be advised that this is a very rural/small town farming area. Very hardscrabble, and quite Republican, I might add, FWIW. Lots of hunting, ATVing...most of you (y'all?) would feel quite at home up here. Well, other than the subzero temps. And you'd have to learn snowmobiling.
Third: When did it become a conservative value to take up for a huge bunch of crazy rich guys over a fellow working man? Remington is not your grandpa's (or greatgrandma's) gun manufacturer. It's now owned by Cerberus, a New York City-based private equity firm whose founder has a net worth (per Forbes) of 1 billion. How much is he gonna pay the workers at that new plant? And what local and state "incentives" (read: bribes paid with taxpayer money) were given in order to entice His Nibs to locate his plant in Alabama?

I for one am tired of the corporate welfare. Thanks to "free trade", we've lost so much American manufacturing that the little bit that's left, we all fight over the scraps, while the robber barons eat caviar. Worse yet, we turn on each other, dividing into "red" and "blue" states.

These constant plant relocations/closings/reopenings are just a race to the bottom. Think we're about there... They won't pay a living wage, so the rest of the taxpayers have to also kick in and subsidize many of these great new jobs: on the front end, with tax abatements, etc.; on the middle end, with health care and other help, since the jobs often don't come with it now; and on the back end, when they pack up and leave, and leave behind a rusting plant and toxic waste. But that's "Capitalism", so we applaud it, right?

Good post.

I realize we are in a gobal economy, but these free trade agreements are going be our undoing. You may bring (I doubt it) the conditions of others up but ours have, and will continue going down trying to balance it out.

Same thing on the North vs South discussion. Companies threaten to move South lured by incentives and no concern of a union workforce. Everyone works for less.

On the Keystone project, it has to go. If the current POS doesn't sign on after the upcoming midterms the next one will when the time comes.

fitz

 

[Caustic Burno]

Ah fitz not true I seen how my northern union brothers rode our backs like a rented mule..

Come contract time national would pull us out in Texas City while my Whiting, Mandin, Yorktown and Salt Lake brothers kept working with a me to clause. We fought the fight and my northern brother kept working and getting the benefits we fought for.
The majority of the benefits won by the OCAW were off the back's of men in Port Arthur and Texas City.
We averaged walking every 3 years, the companies knew our northern brethren didn't have the fight in them as well as the national .
In 1980 we were out 5 1/2 months supposed to be nation wide Whiting went back in after 2 1/2 months leaving us to keep fighting.
We where out in August 74 by ourself again until January and I can go on. We were being hauled to jail and walking while my northern brother enjoyed the good life. I have had US Marshals show up to my house at 2 am to arrest me because I wouldn't pull the picket line down on the docks in 1980. The whole time we were fighting for sick leave, vacation, funeral leave, dental benefits again I could go on they were making more an hour than us. I have seen Solidarity up close and personal as long the Union Bosses were making their money off the dues they didn't care who they stepped on. Funny how they kept drawing a salary and benefits while I was carrying a picket sign.
The 25 watt bulb came on after a while I know I am slow why should I keep fighting for someone that didn't the backbone to fight for themselves. I have sat on both side of the negotiation table as a Union Steward and as management.
The biggest enemy of the union is the union. The trades absolutely struck themselves out of business down here.
Carpenters would be mad today and strike next week it would be the machinist and so on. The company fixed that and hired their own proprietary workforce until they died.

 

[3waycross]

Ah fitz not true I seen how my northern union brothers rode our backs like a rented mule..

Come contract time national would pull us out in Texas City while my Whiting, Mandin, Yorktown and Salt Lake brothers kept working with a me to clause. We fought the fight and my northern brother kept working and getting the benefits we fought for.
The majority of the benefits won by the OCAW were off the back's of men in Port Arthur and Texas City.
We averaged walking every 3 years, the companies knew our northern brethren didn't have the fight in them as well as the national .
In 1980 we were out 5 1/2 months supposed to be nation wide Whiting went back in after 2 1/2 months leaving us to keep fighting.
We where out in August 74 by ourself again until January and I can go on. We were being hauled to jail and walking while my northern brother enjoyed the good life. I have had US Marshals show up to my house at 2 am to arrest me because I wouldn't pull the picket line down on the docks in 1980. The whole time we were fighting for sick leave, vacation, funeral leave, dental benefits again I could go on they were making more an hour than us. I have seen Solidarity up close and personal as long the Union Bosses were making their money off the dues they didn't care who they stepped on. Funny how they kept drawing a salary and benefits while I was carrying a picket sign.
The 25 watt bulb came on after a while I know I am slow why should I keep fighting for someone that didn't the backbone to fight for themselves. I have sat on both side of the negotiation table as a Union Steward and as management.
The biggest enemy of the union is the union. The trades absolutely struck themselves out of business down here.
Carpenters would be mad today and strike next week it would be the machinist and so on. The company fixed that and hired their own proprietary workforce until they died.

Been there done it and got the tshirt. I was asked to leave the United Steelworkers negociations in 1980 when as a local president I suggested that we accept the companies offer which was more than we had planned on asking for. They told me I was not cut out for the job since i was not willing to go for the juglar in a negociation. My answer was my guys need a job next year. If you break the company who is gonna pay us. I shut up and they got their contract.

We lost our jobs 4 months later and never worked again. no more unions for me.......

 

[fitz]

Caustic and 3way, I probably have more respect for you two than any on these boards. I always appreciate your honesty.
I, as much, maybe more than many, realize there is bad
in everything, unions included. I too, worked with my tools, was a union rep. and at one time a Field Supt. for a mechanical company overseeing several projects involving many man crews. I negotiated many contracts and had the utmost respect for those on both sides of the table. I always preached if the Companies didn't make money, we didn't buy groceries. No one wins in a strike.

I worked the Building Trades. In construction every job ends and you go to the next. I've had one W-2 a year and often as many as seven. I've went North for work and trust me, I know what it's like to be treated like a bastard stepchild by my northern Brothers. I often wondered how they would handle walking a picket line seven days a week, 12 hours a day. Most had never missed a day's work in their career.

With all that rambling on, I still stand by my earlier comments. But you both are smart enough to realize they are just my opinions and don't stand for anything more. Take care.


fitz

 

[Caustic Burno]

fitz on that we agree.
I have seen the rotten and the good on both sides.
You are dead on no one ever wins in a strike ever!
I have two son's and a SIL carrying a card today .
I will always support a mans right to improve his working conditions through productivity and safety
as the companies. I can not support either through greed or regulated to extinction.