Registered vs. Unregistered

[Bestoutwest]

As a small breeder, am I better off to go to a 'registered' breeder and buy stock from them or to buy from a guy that has that type of cattle but isn't registered?

 

[bigbull338]

As a small breeder, am I better off to go to a 'registered' breeder and buy stock from them or to buy from a guy that has that type of cattle but isn't registered?

if you want pureblood cattle you can buy from a reg breeder.as some will sell cattle without the papers.

 

[cow pollinater]

I'd start with grade(unregistered) cows and get them figured out first and then maybe add in a few registered cows once you think you've got it figured out. Your chances of buying registered cattle and turning right around and selling seedstock are close to zero so you'd basically pay a premium for the same thing that everyone else has and you'd have to do a ton of paperwork to get there.
Personally, I don't want a purebred cow unless she's special. I have registered angus running alongside of grade black cows and it takes some real genetic power for the purebred calves to keep up.

 

[novatech]

Making money on registerd cattle can be a lot of work and a lot of money. First off if you intend on buying high quality you will usually end up paying big bucks. If you know someone that has the breed you want and will sell relatively cheap then you stand a chance. Once you get them you will more than likely only will be able to AI in order to maintain or build the quality. Then you come to the big, big, big thing, being able to market them. You will be competing with the big boys who have spent years or even generations building up their name.
And lets not forget the knowledge base you need to acquire so you don't end up getting the you know.

 

[shadyhollownj]

We started out with four 3 for 1s about 5 years ago of registered polled herefords. We AI most of our cattle and have 14 mommas now. We go to local state sales and have bought some nice heifers over the years to build our genetics. We have sold some heifers and two bulls. We keep most of our AI calves. We kept a bull with AI sires on both sides to use as a cleanup. Hopefully one day we will be on the positive from registered but we will see. I am actually heading to star lakes sale this month to step up our genetics. I feel like raising commercial cattle on the small scale it would be tough to make any money unless you build a good freezer beef customer base. Our hopes is to have calves we could sell for say 2000 a piece eventually to try to make something so its not a hobby. Taking our calves to the sale barn as commercial calves would be nothing but a moneypit for the small guy. Just my two cents.

 

[backhoeboogie]

You have horse traders on both sides. Beware.

 

[SSGenetics]

I've always had the belief that being a commercial cattleman should be a prerequisite to producing seed stock....

 

[TexasBred]

You have horse traders on both sides. Beware.

Absolutely and politics out the gazoo. Go with some good commercial cattle, run a good bull and enjoy your cattle.

 

[bse]

looks like your 30yrs old find someone you trust with whatever breed your looking at get registered cattle. You can buy decent papered cattle at resonable prices if you look around you can learn just as much with papered cattle as you can with commercial. breed them up with AI and at your age eventually you can have something. With papered cattle you have more options as how you market them you can still take them to the sale barn if need be but you cant market commercial as registered. I wish i had done it that way im 50 and in the process of swapping over to registered angus, culled commercial will be replaced with registered i may never be to the great seedstock producer level but hopefully i will leave something good enough so that my kids can. I do wish i had started this at 30 instead of taking them all to the sale barn.

 

[Limomike]

As a small breeder, am I better off to go to a 'registered' breeder and buy stock from them or to buy from a guy that has that type of cattle but isn't registered?

It all depends on how deep your pockets are..

 

[greybeard]

It's my understanding that some breed associations have made it a lot more expensive to file the papers than it was years ago. Before, a yearly fee and then you filed the papers on the calves, but now it's still a yearly fee PLUS a registration fee for each set of papers?
(that is according to a family member that raises reg herefords)
If you have 100 calves a year, and a $30 fee for each one, that could get fairly expensive for some folks.
(I just pulled the $30 figure out of mid air as an example)

 

[bse]

The fees can be high depending on breed Angus is $80 a yr membership then $7 a calf if younger than 4 months of age. Simmental is $110 per yr membership then $42 dollars per calf if your not in this program or that program thats the only 2 i know anything about.

 

[Caustic Burno]

You have horse traders on both sides. Beware.

Absolutely and politics out the gazoo. Go with some good commercial cattle, run a good bull and enjoy your cattle.

You are also playing a money game with the big boy's.
I ran a registered herd for year's until the drought. The average person entering the seedstock biz last 7 or 8 year's.
It takes time to build a reputation, you are selling your name as well as your cattle. IMO it take's at least 30 momma cow's to make a dime in the registered biz. You should be only selling the best 20% as seedstock. The other 80% are salebarn bound and will never mash the scales like a crossbred calf.

 

[highgrit]

I can't see how you can compete in the Black Angus breed. Lots of money and lots of competition from well established breeders. Just cause the cow can have papers don't mean it should.

 

[calfbuyer]

For me the proofs in the pudding as they say. I have owned some registered cattle that weren't any better or raised any better calves than the ones i bought at the sale barn. A lot of the bulls that i have owned have been registered as well but i couldn't care less if they were or not. Same goes with EPD's for me. (I'm probably gonna start a riot here). I have seen guys pay big money for an absolute pile of junk just because he has good numbers and guess what the numbers didn't make the calves any better. Ill have to agree with cow pollinator, get you a descent set of cows that you can afford and go from there.

 

[novatech]

[You should be only selling the best 20% as seedstock. The other 80% are salebarn bound and will never mash the scales like a crossbred calf.

This is dead on. Unfortunately there are far to many people buying cull registered cattle and raising more cull registered. Then they cry about them not doing any better than their commercial cattle. Well who's fault is that?
People need to understand why cattle are registered. It is so the buyers and/or breeders can study the genetic history of the animal being considered. If you do not have a knowledge base on the genetics of the particular breed then you have no business buying them much less considering raising seed stock. If you do not understand EPD's or how valuable the percentile number is then you don't need to be buying or breeding registered stock.

 

[plumber_greg]

I don't know that the OP said he wanted to sell reg. stock. I would buy purebred, older stock. You don't need the papers, then start a CONTROLLED crossbreeding program. By getting the purebred stock, you know what you are getting, and even some average cows can make quite a commercial herd in a few years with some good planning. gs

 

[lakegerts]

I have had commercial and now have purebred. It is an expensive process. Feeding cattle for shows, participating in consignment sales, etc. Registered cattle are a lot like commercial cattle, sometimes the cattle are good, sometimes they aren't. I bought two cows when I first started. Both 3 n 1's. I paid top quality commercial price. They where good cows but didn't have the "genetics" some of the other cows had. I thought when I first started, the more you paid for something the better the cow was. Luckily I learned quick that wasn't the case. I have a couple of expensive cows in my herd that are good cows, but I also have some cattle in my herd I paid less than stock barn price for (mostly cause they were coming out of the Texas drought) that are just as good or better than my expensive cattle. When you get a deal on one, it turns into one of your favorite cows pretty quick. I look at EPD's but I think more people care about their bloodlines, so I look stronger at that. The best thing you can do in the Registered business is make friends with the guy you are buying off of. I have learned, if you buy off them, especially a bull, they will buy off of you. Cause if its a heifer they are buying off you out of their bull, they already know half that animals blood line. Plus having friends makes it all worth it. Maybe it's not as friendly in other breeds, but in Santa Gertrudis, I haven't met anyone I didn't like.

 

[Ryder]

Buy the best cows you can afford. Forget about paper until you pick up experience in the cattle world.

 

[Fire Sweep Ranch]

We started about 6 years ago, so pretty new. Our kids were interested in showing, I wanted beef for my freezer. We researched a bunch of breeds, and settled with Simmentals after long discussion with many breeders. In our area, too many Angus breeders to compete, and enough Simm breeders to get a good genetic start on our herd. We paid just above commercial prices and many times below commercial prices at breed association sales! Most people want their cattle to go to good homes where they will be bred and the line continued, not the stockyards. Our herd is now up to 30, and will not get much bigger since we are limited on acreage. We AI everything, and just had the first need for a clean up bull last winter, which we took the heifer to the breeder to get her bred in that case.
Our yearly FAMILY membership (covers all 5 of us) is $140, IIRC. Each cow is $10 a year, and that covers registration of her calf, updated EPD's, and the first transfer free of cost. There is not "certificate" fee in Simmental when you AI, unlike other breeds so once you buy your semen there is no other expense. The deal I have worked with my kids, all bulls and steers income goes back to the ranch to pay for feed and fees. All money they earn from the sale of their heifers they get to keep. All premiums they earn from showing and winning they get to keep also. I can tell you that each of our three kids has AT LEAST $2000 in their accounts, and they are 16, 10 and 8. This is the first year since we started that we are actually making some kind of money to put in an account. But I hope from here out that the kids can continue to build their accounts and we can pay the "cattle habit" bills.
We are by no means "big name", but we breed good cattle, started with super genetics, and had a couple of awesome breeders who helped get us started. We now get calls on a regular basis for people looking for cattle; from show animals to bulls being used on commercial herds. So you can make it with registered cattle, just do your research first. Find out what the market is like in your area and see if you can make it work for you. We really enjoy it!
Oh, and on a side note, we had our yearly meeting last night for the feed store. The new statistic showed that 85% of cattle owners have less than 50 head of cattle (not sure if that was just in our state or bigger). Now is the time to own cattle...