Redoing pasture

[M.Magis]

I know all areas are different, but I've seen tremendous changes just by getting the pH and nutrient levels corrected.

 

[dun]

I would burn it dopwn with glyphosate and remedy, wait a coupl of weeks and burn it with fire. Then put down the lime and fertilizer and no till the grass seed (and clover)

 

[dun]

Thanks guys. Dun...so you wouldn't recommend turning the soil (in this case clay) over at all since I am starting over? I was hoping you would be one who replied.

Thanks,

Tim

Nope, all that will do is make the ground rougher and bring up a whole new weed seed bank

 

[Dave]

Thanks guys. Dun...so you wouldn't recommend turning the soil (in this case clay) over at all since I am starting over? I was hoping you would be one who replied.

Thanks,

Tim

Nope, all that will do is make the ground rougher and bring up a whole new weed seed bank

That plus if this is a clay soil you want to keep all the organic matter you possibly can. Tillage is the enemy of organic matter in the soil.

 

[skyhightree1]

Ok...I have about 25 acres of pasture that I am pulling the cows off and I need to totally redo the whole thing. I have sent in the soil samples, so waiting for results. Fields are filled with lots of weeds, rose, and common lespedeza...as well as a decent amount of broom straw. Should I use a bottom plow and turn all the soil over? I was thinking maybe a controlled burn? I plan on using 15 acres in fescue and the other 10 will be a mix of winter and summer annuals. Is this the time to plow a field? Any advice will be greatly appreciated!

Thanks,

Tim

You are making it way harder than it has to be and over thinking things. If there is some grass there I would put my focus on making the stand thicker and getting the grass less opposition by focusing on killing the weeds. I am by no means an expert but id focus on killing the weeds and the broom straw should go away with the liming for the most part. If it were me I would concentrate and break the place up into 5 acre tracts and concentrate on each one at a time of getting it straight after you lime and fertilize the whole place. I know you work and do not have a lot of time so that could make it easier on you. I would plant grass and lightly disc them in or drill then when weeds wake up start hitting them hard with chemicals. I would probably plant the grass in the spring and if you have a place keep them off a long while a year if at all possible and use that for hay or have someone cut it for you.

 

[dun]

One thing that poeple lose sight of is that it isn;t a quick fix. You need a multi-year plan of action. This farm had been beglected and abused, mostly abused and unwisely used when we first moved here. It took 4-5 years to get the fields in the condition they are in now. Results were obvious after just the first year, but it took time to get the fields yeilding and recovering from even MIG.
The suggestion of breaking it into smaller units is a good one. Don;t do everything to just one, but selectively do something to all of them.

 

[littletom]

I would not use tillage and for sure not a mold board. Unless it is just awful rough that you can not live with. We are doing both right now across road from each other both need rain. One was rough from years of tobacco disked it couple times after burn down, the other was just weed mess burned down and drilled.

 

[wbvs58]

Where I am we put the paddock to forage cereals both summer and winter for a couple of years to exhaust the seed bank so when we plant the new grasses they get a pretty good go without weed competition. I do work the ground initialy for the first crop but then just spray it out after baling and grazing the forage hard and then no till the next crop in. It works well and as Dun said you have to plan ahead to get the good results.

Ken

 

[Ebenezer]

"Two worst things that ever happened to agriculture: livestock shows and the moldboard plow."

Put out lime first and wait 5 to 6 months before putting fertilizer. Do sprays, burns whatever. Don't overlook the chance to grow a few crops of annual grazing to get soil ready for permanent forage species.

 

[dun]

Thanks all...I know it will take a while. This land is pretty abused, tobacco fields. Pretty rough. Some areas have decent fescue that I will spray and overseed...other parts are nothing but crud weeds...lots of bare ground. For planting fescue onto these areas...is broadcast the way to go or drill?

Thanks again!

Tim

In untilled ground, a notill drill is the best solution. If the ground had been worked as you had first suggested then broadcast and rolling would work.

 

[Stocker Steve]

Where I am we put the paddock to forage cereals both summer and winter for a couple of years to exhaust the seed bank so when we plant the new grasses they get a pretty good go without weed competition. I do work the ground initialy for the first crop but then just spray it out after baling and grazing the forage hard and then no till the next crop in. It works well and as Dun said you have to plan ahead to get the good results. Ken

2X
Search for bale grazing. Sounds like you need it badly.
Used to plow here when $7 corn was in the rotation. Those days are gone.
Tried total no till after bale grazing and got very variable results. Some areas were overcome with annual weeds.

A couple broad approaches to look into after liming are:
- burn down the weed bank while planting some annuals as part of your rotation (more tillage $ and pretty pastures)
- clip multiple times after seeding to keep the weeds mostly in check (search for Newman Turner, lay farming)
- just MIG it & wait for seed bank to come to the rescue (lowest cost but takes of while if you have a 50+ year history of chemical farming, may be best option with current market prices)

One thing the "experts" don't talk about is you can create an incredible weed flush when you apply a lot of manure to get fertility and OM up is that, and then can have trouble establishing grass w/o chemicals. Organic guys get around this by fall seeding after an annual crop - - similar to Ken w/o the spray. So the ideal approach depends on grain prices, beef prices, seed bank content, seeding season, moisture...

I vary my approach depending mostly on the fertility, drainage, and cattle prices. I am currently renovating high ground by using this rotation:
bale grazing/no till cover crop grazing/RR soybean/low till into soybean stubble.

 

[skyhightree1]

Thanks all...I know it will take a while. This land is pretty abused, tobacco fields. Pretty rough. Some areas have decent fescue that I will spray and overseed...other parts are nothing but crud weeds...lots of bare ground. For planting fescue onto these areas...is broadcast the way to go or drill?

Thanks again!

Tim

99% of my pastures are broadcast and disced in or were disced up like powder then broadcasted then lightly disced over

 

[pdfangus]

YOU HAVE GOTTEN A LOT OF GOOD ADVICE IN THE ABOVE POSTS.

examine why the fields are currently in the shape they are in.......
and avoid repeating the same mistakes.

 

[dun]

I would do everything except the N now. Then do the N in very latr winter or very early spring. I wouln;t half it.

 

[pdfangus]

agree with Dun on the fertility....

spring oats would be good in early spring....

maybe put some crimson clover into the lime or fertilizer mix for the fall and the clover would be there to boost the spring oats...

for the summer annual:
I have had real good luck with pearl millet, sorghum sudan, buckwheat, cowpeas, sun hemp, and dwarf essex rape

 

[Stocker Steve]

N and S are both very water soluble. One big rain can move them. I would consider a split ap.

Ca and P and K work best if they are applied early and worked in shallow so they can start becoming part of the cycle. Applying them 6 to 12 months before seeding is common. I would not split ap.