rare breed and favorite
- Thread starter trin
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My wife's father has some tarentaise, he likes them pretty well. Crosses them with angus bulls, they're a little snorty, though. We have a half-blood cow that he gave to my wife as a wedding gift, probably the nicest looking cow on our place but her calves have never really tripped my trigger.
cfpinz
cfpinz
IL Rancher
Well-known member
I like the two Tarnetaise bulls I have for the most part. They calf pretty easy, are rather mild mannered (compared to some snotty bulls we have had) and their heifers look good and grow nice for the most part. However, I have not be thrilld with the steers they throw...
hillrancher
Well-known member
yes, I have had senapol and terrantaise. We do custom excavating got them on work. Got the senapol reg. cow and bull calf. Kept the bull for heard bull. Cost me don't how much only used very little. Bad mistake had rat tail calves.
The Terrantaise got them from a monastery. Still got a few of the off spring. Not bad to cross with brangus or angus. Milk well mine were gentle, easy keeper, cold or hot ok and have good feet and always wean a good calf.
The Terrantaise got them from a monastery. Still got a few of the off spring. Not bad to cross with brangus or angus. Milk well mine were gentle, easy keeper, cold or hot ok and have good feet and always wean a good calf.
skcatlman
Well-known member
I run pb Gv and sim X gv commercials. I have tried buelingos ands speckled parks For some color and sold the calves as 4-H projects. Color was wild but the stock was good. Both breeds seem to have alot to offer but the color holds them back in the commercial market which is too bad. Are those the type of breeds you wanted to know about?
cattleluvr18
Well-known member
we have some tarnetaise cross angus heifers. they're doin alright.
hillsdown
Well-known member
What about Dutch Belted (Lakenvelder) cows anyone raise those?
Australian Cattleman
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We run Brahman,South Devon,Hereford,Black Baldy and have the odd Charolais,Gelbvieh and crosses of all the above. Would love to get a Tarentaise to try.
DOC HARRIS
Well-known member
There is a large number of different breeds of beef cattle in the world, whose primary purposes are for the breeding, raising and producing of protein and other necessary nutrients for the consumption by human beings in an enjoyable eating experience.
Each breeder of the various breeds of beef cattle thinks that their particular breed is "best" for a variety of reasons, and usually they adhere to those reasons whether they are logical, reasonable or make sense or not! Color, pattern, size, structure, financial returns to the breeder, taste, tenderness of the meat, juiceness, flavor, PROFIT, - all of these factors seem to imbed themselves in the minds of the producer and they cling to those precepts as if they were engraved in granite, and tenaciously resist any and all efforts to encourage them to modify or subrogate their opinions for different one's which may be more desirable.
In spite of the "Black Color" fad that has been promulgated by the Angus Association, (and, of course, other desirable factors, traits and characteristics are in concert with the black color!) many producers are recognizing that cattle other than black-hided one's have desirable beef properties to exploit for profit.
However, that having been said, the fact that the color "black' has been associated with the Angus Breed, that does not guarantee that black color guarantees excellent quality beef ONLY!
Subsequent improvement in other breeding protocols and breeds has revealed that excellent quality beef cattle are capable of being produced with a variety of mating systems, cross-breeding plans, and little-known and unfamiliar breeds coming to the fore in meat quality, marbling, rib-eye size, juiciness, tenderness, taste, feed efficiency and consumer acceptance.
I am in the process of doing some investigative and interview sessions with some Beef Cattle Breeders of yet another little-known breed that is literally 'blowing my mind' with the produced statistics of the live cattle production, and the 'meat-on-the-rail " results! . . .and "SHOCK" is right! I have never seen marbling and lack of backfat like this breed produces! NEVER! . . .even in a crossbreeding program with several other breeds
I have not completed my work yet, - but - . . . STAY TUNED! It's coming!
DOC HARRIS
Each breeder of the various breeds of beef cattle thinks that their particular breed is "best" for a variety of reasons, and usually they adhere to those reasons whether they are logical, reasonable or make sense or not! Color, pattern, size, structure, financial returns to the breeder, taste, tenderness of the meat, juiceness, flavor, PROFIT, - all of these factors seem to imbed themselves in the minds of the producer and they cling to those precepts as if they were engraved in granite, and tenaciously resist any and all efforts to encourage them to modify or subrogate their opinions for different one's which may be more desirable.
In spite of the "Black Color" fad that has been promulgated by the Angus Association, (and, of course, other desirable factors, traits and characteristics are in concert with the black color!) many producers are recognizing that cattle other than black-hided one's have desirable beef properties to exploit for profit.
However, that having been said, the fact that the color "black' has been associated with the Angus Breed, that does not guarantee that black color guarantees excellent quality beef ONLY!
Subsequent improvement in other breeding protocols and breeds has revealed that excellent quality beef cattle are capable of being produced with a variety of mating systems, cross-breeding plans, and little-known and unfamiliar breeds coming to the fore in meat quality, marbling, rib-eye size, juiciness, tenderness, taste, feed efficiency and consumer acceptance.
I am in the process of doing some investigative and interview sessions with some Beef Cattle Breeders of yet another little-known breed that is literally 'blowing my mind' with the produced statistics of the live cattle production, and the 'meat-on-the-rail " results! . . .and "SHOCK" is right! I have never seen marbling and lack of backfat like this breed produces! NEVER! . . .even in a crossbreeding program with several other breeds
I have not completed my work yet, - but - . . . STAY TUNED! It's coming!
DOC HARRIS
BAGTIC
Well-known member
hillsdown":120i8ij1 said:
Dutch Belted are dairy cattle.
Are you sure you don't mean Belted Galloway?
rkaiser
Well-known member
I think the biggest problem that purebred breeders have is dealing with the word "better". If we could all admit that there are traits in every breed that when concentrated can produce animals and beef that is "just as good" as the best, we might make a bit more headway.
Was reading a magazine the other day about Angus cattle. One breeder --- self proclaimed as a business man here in Canada used the word lanky and big boned when describing his cattle. Two words that I would not be overly proud to use.
The next fellow was introducing his KIWI Angus and how he challenges his cattle to work hard for him. He spalined how his cows that weigh about 1250 pounds rip about 30 per cent of their body weight off over winter. MY God does he take the feed completely away or does he seriously think he is genetically selecting for hardiness????? We make our cows work too - but if a cow cannot retain condition on our lesser quality winter rations she is damn well culled.
My point is - we can't get caught up on the breed thing too much. Even this wonder breed that Doc Harris claims to have found will get munged up be some breeder some day who's self motivation rejects common sense.
My breeds are Welsh Black and Galloway and I am darn proud of my cattle. Are they better than any other breed???? --- Hell no - but if a breeder works hard for years and focuses on common sense characteristics - he can find cattle in almost any breed that are as good as the best........
Randy
http://www.kaiserscelticcattle.com
Was reading a magazine the other day about Angus cattle. One breeder --- self proclaimed as a business man here in Canada used the word lanky and big boned when describing his cattle. Two words that I would not be overly proud to use.
The next fellow was introducing his KIWI Angus and how he challenges his cattle to work hard for him. He spalined how his cows that weigh about 1250 pounds rip about 30 per cent of their body weight off over winter. MY God does he take the feed completely away or does he seriously think he is genetically selecting for hardiness????? We make our cows work too - but if a cow cannot retain condition on our lesser quality winter rations she is damn well culled.
My point is - we can't get caught up on the breed thing too much. Even this wonder breed that Doc Harris claims to have found will get munged up be some breeder some day who's self motivation rejects common sense.
My breeds are Welsh Black and Galloway and I am darn proud of my cattle. Are they better than any other breed???? --- Hell no - but if a breeder works hard for years and focuses on common sense characteristics - he can find cattle in almost any breed that are as good as the best........
Randy
http://www.kaiserscelticcattle.com
Mr. Greenjeans
Well-known member
DOC HARRIS,
Would your comments be in regard to the 5000 (est.) Wagyu cattle currently being bred in south Texas that happen to be guarded by off-duty Texas Rangers. From what I recall from an article I read a few months back, they have a sire that tops the charts on the Genestar test for tenderness and marbling scores. It looks as if Japan's national treasure has gone the way of China's silk worm. Maybe ol' DOC is getting excited about his Wagyu bull on his Irish Black heifers. See what happens when you leave a cliff hanger of a story.
-- Greenjeans
Would your comments be in regard to the 5000 (est.) Wagyu cattle currently being bred in south Texas that happen to be guarded by off-duty Texas Rangers. From what I recall from an article I read a few months back, they have a sire that tops the charts on the Genestar test for tenderness and marbling scores. It looks as if Japan's national treasure has gone the way of China's silk worm. Maybe ol' DOC is getting excited about his Wagyu bull on his Irish Black heifers. See what happens when you leave a cliff hanger of a story.
-- Greenjeans
DOC HARRIS
Well-known member
rkaiser-
Your philosophy expressed on this thread is practical and down to earth as most sensible breeders can attest. In spite of how particular and detailed we get in our breeding protocols attempting to achieve absolute perfection, any experienced producer realizes that, while that goal is commendable, it is impossible to attain. At that point, we must recognize the weaknesses that are present in our breeding plans, and tweak them very slightly. In affect, if you really think about it, THAT is how EPD's SHOULD be programmed into a long-term mating protocol - intelligent enough and conservatively enough so as to not 'throw the baby out with the bath water!' The closer to perfection we approach, the greater opportunities there are to make a seemingly minor error, and end up with a gross problem with the progeny. An analogy to that would be in surveying for contour lines in controlling erosion - a six inch error in 25 or 30 feet and you have a MAJOR gully after only one heavy rain storm. I recommend moderation in all things, careful analysis of Genotype and Phenotype changes in your seedstock, and bearing in mind that Rome wasn't built in a day.
DOC HARRIS
Your philosophy expressed on this thread is practical and down to earth as most sensible breeders can attest. In spite of how particular and detailed we get in our breeding protocols attempting to achieve absolute perfection, any experienced producer realizes that, while that goal is commendable, it is impossible to attain. At that point, we must recognize the weaknesses that are present in our breeding plans, and tweak them very slightly. In affect, if you really think about it, THAT is how EPD's SHOULD be programmed into a long-term mating protocol - intelligent enough and conservatively enough so as to not 'throw the baby out with the bath water!' The closer to perfection we approach, the greater opportunities there are to make a seemingly minor error, and end up with a gross problem with the progeny. An analogy to that would be in surveying for contour lines in controlling erosion - a six inch error in 25 or 30 feet and you have a MAJOR gully after only one heavy rain storm. I recommend moderation in all things, careful analysis of Genotype and Phenotype changes in your seedstock, and bearing in mind that Rome wasn't built in a day.
DOC HARRIS
Miss Daisy
Well-known member
i had an ffa steer last year that was 3/4 limousin X 1/4 salers. he was a real pretty deep red and did well in the show both market and fitting. i was pleased.
DOC HARRIS
Well-known member
Mr. Greenjeans-Mr. Greenjeans":1qy6a5dj said:
No, my comment regarding the work I am doing in regard to the cattle breed I am investigating and examining is NOT Wagyu - although the Wagyu results are fascinating. And since you anticipated the work involved IRISH BLACKS - you are correct! It is IRISH BLACKS breeders, nutritionists and Veterinarians that I am working with, but I don't own any of the cattle - just an extremely interested by-stander, and open-mouthed with amazement with the carcass results they achieve!.. But we are not completed with the program yet, and that is why I didn't want to get everybody excited until we were ready to present the results and a new website for the founder. That should happen before the first of the year! We are working toward that goal anyway! There has been one article published in the "Colorado Livestock Association" magazine pertaining to the IRISH BLACKS Founder, Maurice Boney. More to follow. They have some eye-popping Genestar results!
The potential of cross-breeding with Wagyu holds interesting merit, but again, careful examinaiton of combining traits and characteristics and homozygosities together, without getting "munged up", as Randy Kaiser accurately phrased it, should be mandatory to prevent indiscriminate matings resulting in Genetic mis-steps. As I have strongly insisted in past posts, I am highly oppposed to "single-trait selection", and that is why it is so important to understand ALL facets of matings before jumping into something and just hoping and "waiting to see what will happen!" A breeder that I worked with several years ago persisted in breeding "X to "Anything Females" - just to see what would happen! Needless to say, I didn't work with him more than a few months.
Anyway, Mr. Greenjeans, I think that you are quite perceptive to surmise that the IRISH BLACKS Breed was involved in my comments. ;-)
DOC HARRIS
rkaiser
Well-known member
Ah yes --- Mr. Maurice Boney. Met him about 5 years back in Billings and was very impressed with where he was going then. Other than the fact that he first had to create the Irish Blacks (composite breed) we both agreed that our Welsh Black had the same potential ----- if, and a big if --- we could could follow some of the line breeding techniques that he was using to concentrate on the proper characteristics which we started shortly thereafter. Had some great conversations with another American line breeder at the same time, who thinks that he has found the breed of his heart in the Devon cattle - Mr. Gerald Fry.
Time is not on old Boney's side if I remember correctly and would love to meet the man or men or women, who take up his cause. A friend over in Billings used one of these Irish Black bulls and had nothing but good to say. Mind you - I have a growing number of customers like that myself.
Good luck Doc
Time is not on old Boney's side if I remember correctly and would love to meet the man or men or women, who take up his cause. A friend over in Billings used one of these Irish Black bulls and had nothing but good to say. Mind you - I have a growing number of customers like that myself.
Good luck Doc
DOC HARRIS
Well-known member
KS Cattle-KS Cattle":15envei7 said:
At the present time Mr. Maurice Boney at the website you sited is the only one to whom you can contact, as he is the source. There are a few others, and they are all focused from the Boney-Gould Ranch.
I mentioned a couple of weeks ago that we were just about ready to start an advertising campaign and new web-site for their Ranch , and as of this afternoon (11-26-07) we pulled it together, and in a few days you should see ads in several Livestock publications, and also on the CattleToday Front Page.
Eric Grant, the Angus Productions Inc. "Creative Media" Manager is spearheading the work, and he is very close to presenting the program on the IRISH BLACKS - hopefully within a week. The IRISH BLACKS are NOT any part of the Angus breed or Association. Eric started this work before he accepted the position with the Angus Association.
I have interviewed and talked to many breeders, and visited several ranches with IRISH BLACKS, and I am EXTREMELY impressed with the cattle and how they finish out and dress out! Contact Mr. Maurice Boney for information on them. Please tell him that DOC HARRIS referred you to him. We want to focus on what advertising is effective!
Maurice W. Boney
25377 WCR 17
Johnstown, CO 80534
Phone: 970/587-2252
http://www.irishblacks.com
DOC HARRIS
