Radical Islam

[Alice]

I agree completely with asplusmnt on the differences. You and Alice have this view that the behavior of the Islamic radicals is not any different than that of McVey or the violent actions of the KKK. As a result this view portrays you as more accepting of radical Islam. It tends to water down what they are attempting to do to us. As if it were o.k.. It's not o.k.
I ask again, what has to happen before you give your stamp of approval on military action against those Islamic radicals that want you dead? How about you Alice?

It already happened...it happened with 9/11. I had/have no problem with going after Bin Laden full out, and killing every last one of those rabid animal Islamic terrorists. I still fully believe that going after Saddam was a 2nd choice...and ya' don't start wars with 2nd choices!

The U.S. forces were thrust into that morass with absolutely no idea of what it faced by way of culture and a religion ingrained into the culture long before Christianity existed. That culture has always hated the Western world, yet it has always been happy enough to take what the Western world offered it by way of support. The Iraqi's were happy to have the U.S. get rid of their tyrant, they were happy to have the U.S. take the bullets for them, and when Saddam was gone they wanted us out. And that's when the U.S. should have left...but no, it was decided that now they should have a democracy, just like the U.S. Those people have no more idea that wild men how to exist in a democracy...and they don't care.

So now you have disgruntled Iraqis who are evermore likely to align themselves with Bin Laden and the likes of him, 'cause they want the U.S. out! And they are growing ever more radical because they want us out! I'll say it now...I do not like Middle Easterners...I do not like their culture and their willingness to take and take and take, then turn on it's benefactor. Why didn't the administration take that into consideration when they went into Iraq ill equiped with equipment that malfunctioned...a serious of lack of body armor, and really no game plan to speak of. A little research would have gone a long way in coming up with a more effective game plan, but oh no...we had to go in there right away...make it look like something was being done...keep the heat off because of the failure to find Bin Laden.

And, while all of this is going on, Bin Laden and his crazies are hiding themselves better and better...watching from afar, recruiting more disgruntled Iraqis...infusing them with even more and more hatred for the United States and the Western world. And there's something else...the United States can stay in Iraq for the next 100 years and still never achieve it's goal. These Middle Eastern Islamic extremeists have been fighting each other forever, and I mean FOREVER. War is nothing to them...it is a way of life for them.

I'll give Israel one thing...when they get attacked, they hit back fast and sure...they hit the ones that hit them, not a second choice bunch...and then they pull back. You don't see Israel getting involved in Middle Eastern countries civil wars. You don't see them trying to help establish democracies in countries that could care less.

I'm not thru, but I'm tired of typing a treatise that's gonna get bashed nine ways from Sunday anyway. What really depresses me is that anyone with a different opinion is considered a traitor...anyone that has an independent thought needs to be dropped into Bagdad. I love my country, I love my country very, very much...and I refuse to accept having my difference of opinion branding me as being a traitor.

Oh, and one other thing...whethe anyone wants to accept this or not, we do have very, very dangerous homegrown terrorists...white supremacist neo nazi terrorists who, for some reason, are being allowed to continue with their hateful agenda...which, by the way, does include getting rid of the Jews, and anyone that doesn't agree with them...and their hate and cause is as deeply ingrained in them as the hate is ingrained in the Islamic terrorist, and they need to be dealt with as swiftly and surely as any Islamic terrorist.

And, once again, I have allowed myself to be dragged into a thread that has no good end...

Alice

 

[chrisy]

Chrisy,

You mentioned how you thought maybe it would be better to be speaking german because they have nice cities and blah blah. Do you honestly believe they would have all those things and nice cities if we had left Hitler to his ways. It is because we offered that country a chance it has become what it is. It would never be like it is now under a madman like Hitler.

What gets me is when i was still in the Corps and doing my time overseas, i would hear horrible comments about us and what we were doing, and how we shouldn't be there, and oh my favorite how i was "stuck" in Iraq and I could only think, man I am putting my life on the line to preserve freedom so this person can have the right to talk bad about me. Thank you would have been good enough for me!

no I know we would not have been better under Hitler, it is just that we won the War and at times it feels for what, our Forefathers died in vein for the way things are at the moment.
it would take to long to explain all I mean but I'm sure you get my drift. I have never spoke bad about you American Soldiers, it is not your fault where you are sent to fight, you like all the other Soldiers are doing your duty and answering to your so called superiors in Office. what is the quotation 'Ours is not to reason why, ours is just to do and die'. You are all Brave Heroic men to me. and God Bless you, I thank each and everyone of you for what you have done and have to do. God speed, and God Bless to you all.

You're welcome.

I still don't see how our forefathers died in vain. You have the greatest thing on Earth..FREEDOM.

I know we do and I thank them for it, the point I was making is, sometimes now days you wonder what it was all for, I was at the supermarket a few months back, and an Old Lady in front of me was putting back a packet of Tea because she could not afford it, with the other shopping she had, which was not much, and after a lot of pursuasion from me she let me buy it for her, she was telling me her Husband had fought in the War and all she had was her widows pension to live on and look at that lot, in front of her were a bunch of Foreign nationals, drapped from head to toe in Reebok gear, and buying their groceries with Food Stamps given free from Our Government. and they wonder why we feel the way we do, that is what I meant by is it fair, was it in vein as I think they would be turning in their graves if they could see. I blame it on the do gooders, and if you give a Country you have been running ie Indian, Hong Kong freedom, give it but don't keep letting them in, and I thought the Geneva Convention states that you are supposed to settle in the next Country that is not at War, they get here but they have to go through, Germany and France first, so that is not being adhered to.

 

[KenB]

I agree completely with asplusmnt on the differences. You and Alice have this view that the behavior of the Islamic radicals is not any different than that of McVey or the violent actions of the KKK. As a result this view portrays you as more accepting of radical Islam. It tends to water down what they are attempting to do to us. As if it were o.k.. It's not o.k.
I ask again, what has to happen before you give your stamp of approval on military action against those Islamic radicals that want you dead? How about you Alice?

It already happened...it happened with 9/11. I had/have no problem with going after Bin Laden full out, and killing every last one of those rabid animal Islamic terrorists. I still fully believe that going after Saddam was a 2nd choice...and ya' don't start wars with 2nd choices!

The U.S. forces were thrust into that morass with absolutely no idea of what it faced by way of culture and a religion ingrained into the culture long before Christianity existed. That culture has always hated the Western world, yet it has always been happy enough to take what the Western world offered it by way of support. The Iraqi's were happy to have the U.S. get rid of their tyrant, they were happy to have the U.S. take the bullets for them, and when Saddam was gone they wanted us out. And that's when the U.S. should have left...but no, it was decided that now they should have a democracy, just like the U.S. Those people have no more idea that wild men how to exist in a democracy...and they don't care.

So now you have disgruntled Iraqis who are evermore likely to align themselves with Bin Laden and the likes of him, 'cause they want the U.S. out! And they are growing ever more radical because they want us out! I'll say it now...I do not like Middle Easterners...I do not like their culture and their willingness to take and take and take, then turn on it's benefactor. Why didn't the administration take that into consideration when they went into Iraq ill equiped with equipment that malfunctioned...a serious of lack of body armor, and really no game plan to speak of. A little research would have gone a long way in coming up with a more effective game plan, but oh no...we had to go in there right away...make it look like something was being done...keep the heat off because of the failure to find Bin Laden.

And, while all of this is going on, Bin Laden and his crazies are hiding themselves better and better...watching from afar, recruiting more disgruntled Iraqis...infusing them with even more and more hatred for the United States and the Western world. And there's something else...the United States can stay in Iraq for the next 100 years and still never achieve it's goal. These Middle Eastern Islamic extremeists have been fighting each other forever, and I mean FOREVER. War is nothing to them...it is a way of life for them.

I'll give Israel one thing...when they get attacked, they hit back fast and sure...they hit the ones that hit them, not a second choice bunch...and then they pull back. You don't see Israel getting involved in Middle Eastern countries civil wars. You don't see them trying to help establish democracies in countries that could care less.

I'm not thru, but I'm tired of typing a treatise that's gonna get bashed nine ways from Sunday anyway. What really depresses me is that anyone with a different opinion is considered a traitor...anyone that has an independent thought needs to be dropped into Bagdad. I love my country, I love my country very, very much...and I refuse to accept having my difference of opinion branding me as being a traitor.

Oh, and one other thing...whethe anyone wants to accept this or not, we do have very, very dangerous homegrown terrorists...white supremacist neo nazi terrorists who, for some reason, are being allowed to continue with their hateful agenda...which, by the way, does include getting rid of the Jews, and anyone that doesn't agree with them...and their hate and cause is as deeply ingrained in them as the hate is ingrained in the Islamic terrorist, and they need to be dealt with as swiftly and surely as any Islamic terrorist.

And, once again, I have allowed myself to be dragged into a thread that has no good end...

Alice

Good one Alice :clap: , Now I will be branded even more of a liberal , but I agree with what you said.

 

[chrisy]

way to go Alice :nod: you have hit the nail right on the head there Girl, well done :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:

 

[aplusmnt]

Biggest thing some can not understand is going after Bin Laden and Afghanistan was for Justice.

Going into Iraq was so another 911 did not happen.

Two separate issues, many people have a problem with preventive maintenance. They would rather wait till their bald tires blow out to buy new ones.

Iraq was preventive maintenance. Clinton had a problem doing this also or he would have went after the Terrorist after the striked 5 or so times under his watch.

911 is proof of what lack of preventive maintenance does for you when dealing with Muslim Terrorist.

Soon we will have to face this same decision with Iran, do we do preventive Maintenance or wait till they get a nuke and use it?

Preventive Maintenance in Regards Muslim Terrorist = hunting them down and killing them wherever they can be found, Removing and Killing Terrorist supporting Leaders of Nations.

Alice before you assume things like the Iraqi people want us gone you should talk to or listen to some people that really know, not just what you see on CNN. Maybe JDI can enlighten you to this if he gets a chance between dodging the bullets.

I learned a long time ago, that a few loud yellers can make it seem like they represent everyone. You can have a 1,000 protesters on TV burning American flags and 5 million people praying that we do not leave and stay to protect them. Well people like you will believe those 1,000 represent everyone because that is what the Liberal Media want you to believe.

 

[novatech]

Chrisy,

You mentioned how you thought maybe it would be better to be speaking german because they have nice cities and blah blah. Do you honestly believe they would have all those things and nice cities if we had left Hitler to his ways. It is because we offered that country a chance it has become what it is. It would never be like it is now under a madman like Hitler.

What gets me is when i was still in the Corps and doing my time overseas, i would hear horrible comments about us and what we were doing, and how we shouldn't be there, and oh my favorite how i was "stuck" in Iraq and I could only think, man I am putting my life on the line to preserve freedom so this person can have the right to talk bad about me. Thank you would have been good enough for me!

no I know we would not have been better under Hitler, it is just that we won the War and at times it feels for what, our Forefathers died in vein for the way things are at the moment.
it would take to long to explain all I mean but I'm sure you get my drift. I have never spoke bad about you American Soldiers, it is not your fault where you are sent to fight, you like all the other Soldiers are doing your duty and answering to your so called superiors in Office. what is the quotation 'Ours is not to reason why, ours is just to do and die'. You are all Brave Heroic men to me. and God Bless you, I thank each and everyone of you for what you have done and have to do. God speed, and God Bless to you all.

You're welcome.

I still don't see how our forefathers died in vain. You have the greatest thing on Earth..FREEDOM.

I know we do and I thank them for it, the point I was making is, sometimes now days you wonder what it was all for, I was at the supermarket a few months back, and an Old Lady in front of me was putting back a packet of Tea because she could not afford it, with the other shopping she had, which was not much, and after a lot of pursuasion from me she let me buy it for her, she was telling me her Husband had fought in the War and all she had was her widows pension to live on and look at that lot, in front of her were a bunch of Foreign nationals, drapped from head to toe in Reebok gear, and buying their groceries with Food Stamps given free from Our Government. and they wonder why we feel the way we do, that is what I meant by is it fair, was it in vein as I think they would be turning in their graves if they could see. I blame it on the do gooders, and if you give a Country you have been running ie Indian, Hong Kong freedom, give it but don't keep letting them in, and I thought the Geneva Convention states that you are supposed to settle in the next Country that is not at War, they get here but they have to go through, Germany and France first, so that is not being adhered to.

Just so you will know, in the USA without foreigners there would only be the American Indian liveing here. It's partly what makes this country great. We even let alice stay. :lol: :lol:

 

[KenB]

Martial law?
Throw away the Constitution?

Some of the things that I think should be done is...
1- Have a strong National Guard here in the USA to Guard the USA.
2- Use the dollars that is being wasted in Iraq to protect our borders, and ports, airports, local police, civil defense, stronger- smarter inteligence services, etc, etc
3- Identify the Radical Muslums in this country that are supporting terrorism and put them in prison. (Use racial profiling when needed)
4- Better cooperation with our foreign allies. (make new ones)

Now where in my statement does it imply Martial law or Violating the Constitution?
We are using the National Guard right now on the Mexican border, and could use more.

Racial profiling
Without martial law how are you going to watch every single person 24-7
Are you going to build a fence around the nation
How about we could tag everyone, anyone without a tag we shoot.
Can,t do this, right. Anything less would not stop a terrorist.
That's why we have to stop them before thay come to our borders.
This is why the present administration is doing a pretty darn good job, both democrats and republicans.
Thats probably why people like you are not running the country

Get your head out of a, a the sand.
Maybe a little education.

Racial profiling is not against the Constitution.

Do you really think what is going on in Iraq has prevented the terrorist from coming here? If you do you are alot dumber then I thought.

"Thats probably why people like you are not running the country"

From the looks of the last election, and some of the changes taking place in the present administration it appears that more people like me are starting to.

If they are like you.
I guess its time to stock up on amunition.
Thats probably something else your against.

No I have plenty of amunition to go with plenty of weapons to fire it, and I always well. And I am not afraid to use them.

The only thing that I have been against in this entire post is the mismanagement of the war on terror, and our involvement in Iraq.
As a side note, Why didn't we invade Iran instead of Iraq? They have been a thorn in our side for a long time. Fostered terrorism far more than Iraq, captured and held our embasy people hostage, had a radical islamic ruler, etc.

It is also my experience that when people resort to name calling it's because they know thay are wrong.quote]

I am sorry that I said you must be dumber than I thought.

 

[Alice]

Biggest thing some can not understand is going after Bin Laden and Afghanistan was for Justice.

Going into Iraq was so another 911 did not happen.

Two separate issues, many people have a problem with preventive maintenance. They would rather wait till their bald tires blow out to buy new ones.

Iraq was preventive maintenance. Clinton had a problem doing this also or he would have went after the Terrorist after the striked 5 or so times under his watch.

911 is proof of what lack of preventive maintenance does for you when dealing with Muslim Terrorist.

Soon we will have to face this same decision with Iran, do we do preventive Maintenance or wait till they get a nuke and use it?

Preventive Maintenance in Regards Muslim Terrorist = hunting them down and killing them wherever they can be found, Removing and Killing Terrorist supporting Leaders of Nations.

Alice before you assume things like the Iraqi people want us gone you should talk to or listen to some people that really know, not just what you see on CNN. Maybe JDI can enlighten you to this if he gets a chance between dodging the bullets.

I learned a long time ago, that a few loud yellers can make it seem like they represent everyone. You can have a 1,000 protesters on TV burning American flags and 5 million people praying that we do not leave and stay to protect them. Well people like you will believe those 1,000 represent everyone because that is what the Liberal Media want you to believe.

Alice before you assume things like the Iraqi people want us gone you should talk to or listen to some people that really know, not just what you see on CNN. Maybe JDI can enlighten you to this if he gets a chance between dodging the bullets.

Doesn't have a thing to do with CNN. It has everything to do with spending a little time in Morocco AND working for years with middle easterners in an academic setting, and listening to them and their sarcastic take on the United States all the while accepting the very handsome salaries they were being paid.

Maybe if you would get your head out of Fox Network and radical right wing propaganda and allow a little bit of knowledge from different sources enter your brain, then form an independent thought of your own...Forget it...lost my head there.

Alice

 

[aplusmnt]

As a side note, Why didn't we invade Iran instead of Iraq? They have been a thorn in our side for a long time. Fostered terrorism far more than Iraq, captured and held our embasy people hostage, had a radical islamic ruler, etc.

I am sure they are on the List, Saddam just made it easier to get pushed to the front of the line. We already had legal justification to go after him.

Could you imagine how bad everyone would be crying if we chose Iran first.

They might not have been first, but you can bet they will get their turn in near future!

 

[badaxemoo]

aplusmnt wrote:

I do not care about the history of Islam, the history Christainity or The history of the KKK.

Then you must be a supporter of President Bush. He also seems to have a hard time understanding history and its importance. Taking a snapshot of the global situation on February 9th, 2007 doesn't provide a great deal of information. You have to put it in historical context. You and the President should get together and take some classes - or God forbid - travel to another country to experience differences for yourselves.

Cherry Picking the Koran to MAKE THEM SOUND like a blood thirsty religion? I do not have to pick through the Koran to prove that, turn on the TV the proof is there, all picking through the Koran does is show why they are doing it.

So according to you the conflict boils down to religion. That makes it so clear and tidy and black and white, doesn't it.

I thought maybe it had something to do with post-colonial politics in Southwest Asia, corrupt monarchies propped up by oil revenues, the consequences of shifting Cold War military alliances, poor wealth distribution and numerous other complex factors (including religion).

I must have been mistaken. You're right. It's obviously Good against Evil.

I think I am finished debating with you over the Good Versus Evil of Christianity and Islam, the fruit ages of those religions are there for you to see, if you can not see them there is nothing I can do to help that situation.

What are fruit ages? How can I see them if I don't know what they are? Is it the out of date produce section at the local grocery store?

If you have any doubts about them I will personally buy you a "I hate Jesus Shirt" and an "I hate Muhammad" shirt you can wear the Jesus one to a Christian gathering and the Muhammad one to a Muslim gather and we will see which one is the God of peace. ;-)

So you're telling me that if I wore this ridiculous shirt in a Mosque in Detroit, that I would be lynched. What about Jakarta? Kuala Lumpur? Niamey? Baghdad?

You might get a different reaction in all those places, but you apparently are too uninterested in people, religion, and culture to learn that there are different types of Muslims in different parts of the world.

You're being very lazy.

 

[novatech]

Martial law?
Throw away the Constitution?

Some of the things that I think should be done is...
1- Have a strong National Guard here in the USA to Guard the USA.
2- Use the dollars that is being wasted in Iraq to protect our borders, and ports, airports, local police, civil defense, stronger- smarter inteligence services, etc, etc
3- Identify the Radical Muslums in this country that are supporting terrorism and put them in prison. (Use racial profiling when needed)
4- Better cooperation with our foreign allies. (make new ones)

Now where in my statement does it imply Martial law or Violating the Constitution?
We are using the National Guard right now on the Mexican border, and could use more.

Racial profiling
Without martial law how are you going to watch every single person 24-7
Are you going to build a fence around the nation
How about we could tag everyone, anyone without a tag we shoot.
Can,t do this, right. Anything less would not stop a terrorist.
That's why we have to stop them before thay come to our borders.
This is why the present administration is doing a pretty darn good job, both democrats and republicans.
Thats probably why people like you are not running the country

Get your head out of a, a the sand.
Maybe a little education.

Racial profiling is not against the Constitution.

Do you really think what is going on in Iraq has prevented the terrorist from coming here? If you do you are alot dumber then I thought.

"Thats probably why people like you are not running the country"

From the looks of the last election, and some of the changes taking place in the present administration it appears that more people like me are starting to.

If they are like you.
I guess its time to stock up on amunition.
Thats probably something else your against.

No I have plenty of amunition to go with plenty of weapons to fire it, and I always well. And I am not afraid to use them.

The only thing that I have been against in this entire post is the mismanagement of the war on terror, and our involvement in Iraq.
As a side note, Why didn't we invade Iran instead of Iraq? They have been a thorn in our side for a long time. Fostered terrorism far more than Iraq, captured and held our embasy people hostage, had a radical islamic ruler, etc.

It is also my experience that when people resort to name calling it's because they know thay are wrong.quote:vqt66sij]

I am sorry that I said you must be dumber than I thought.

[/quote]
There is one thing I will agree with you on. We should have blown the hades out of Iran. They are the worse threat. Problem was, we had no excuse to do so, not even a bad one.
Iraq gives the US a place to watch and threaten them from.

By the way there is a very fine line between racial profiling being constitutional or not, google it up yourself.

 

[aplusmnt]

Doesn't have a thing to do with CNN. It has everything to do with spending a little time in Morocco AND working for years with middle easterners in an academic setting, and listening to them and their sarcastic take on the United States all the while accepting the very handsome salaries they were being paid.

Maybe if you would get your head out of Fox Network and radical right wing propaganda and allow a little bit of knowledge from different sources enter your brain, then form an independent thought of your own...Forget it...lost my head there.

Alice

How did you learn this in Morocco? Sounds like some info you must have gained since living Morocco if you ask me? :roll:

So now you have disgruntled Iraqis who are evermore likely to align themselves with Bin Laden and the likes of him, 'cause they want the U.S. out! And they are growing ever more radical because they want us out!

So please explain to me how you gained this vast knowledge of what the Iraqi people want NOW from when you lived in Morocco?

 

[badaxemoo]

All right, Alice. Just to prove that I'm an equal opportunity critic:

That culture has always hated the Western world, yet it has always been happy enough to take what the Western world offered it by way of support.

Overstatement. Read up on the history of colonialism in the region.

Those people have no more idea that wild men how to exist in a democracy...and they don't care.

Democracy does have major obstacles to overcome if it will ever succeed in that region, but try to imagine what an outside observer would have said about Europe at various times during the course of it's often bloody history.

Just because democracy isn't too be found there now doesn't mean the seeds aren't lying dormant somewhere in the region. There are many voices for peace and democracy in those countries, but they are intimidated and overwhelmed by the governments in power.

I'll say it now...I do not like Middle Easterners...I do not like their culture and their willingness to take and take and take, then turn on it's benefactor.

Come on now, Alice.

I'm bothered by the sexism found in many traditional places in Southwest Asia. But there are a lot of positives about the culture too - just like any other. (I just read your other post - would it be fair to assume that the people you worked with in that academic setting were men? I don't want to devalue your experience, but might it have been different if you had been working with Middle Eastern women?)

Portraying the western powers as a benefactor in this region is a huge stretch. Google Mossadegh. He was the democratically elected President of Iran. He was removed in a C.I.A. coup. Our support of the Shah helped to foster some of the anti-American sentiments found in Iran and the entire region today.

These Middle Eastern Islamic extremeists have been fighting each other forever, and I mean FOREVER. War is nothing to them...it is a way of life for them.

Well somehow they took time off to invent hydraulics, algebra, and our current numerical system - along with a lot of neat poetry, art and music.

Don't buy the conventional wisdom. Europe and the United States have had a couple of periods of violence too.

I'm not thru, but I'm tired of typing a treatise that's gonna get bashed nine ways from Sunday anyway. What really depresses me is that anyone with a different opinion is considered a traitor...anyone that has an independent thought needs to be dropped into Bagdad. I love my country, I love my country very, very much...and I refuse to accept having my difference of opinion branding me as being a traitor.

I hope you don't think I'm bashing. Just disagreeing with a few points in a post that I otherwise agree with.

Sincerely,
Another "traitor"

 

[Alice]

Doesn't have a thing to do with CNN. It has everything to do with spending a little time in Morocco AND working for years with middle easterners in an academic setting, and listening to them and their sarcastic take on the United States all the while accepting the very handsome salaries they were being paid.

Maybe if you would get your head out of Fox Network and radical right wing propaganda and allow a little bit of knowledge from different sources enter your brain, then form an independent thought of your own...Forget it...lost my head there.

Alice

How did you learn this in Morocco? Sounds like some info you must have gained since living Morocco if you ask me? :roll:

So now you have disgruntled Iraqis who are evermore likely to align themselves with Bin Laden and the likes of him, 'cause they want the U.S. out! And they are growing ever more radical because they want us out!

So please explain to me how you gained this vast knowledge of what the Iraqi people want NOW from when you lived in Morocco?

What, you got some kind of crystal ball that you consult...'cause if you do you need it checked for technical difficulties...

So now you are trying to tell me how I really gained knowledge, huh...how I must've gained it...couldn't possibly be how I KNOW I gained it...Oh, this is good... :lol2: And, I never said I lived in Morocco, just spent a short time there...another indication of you reading something into something that was never there in the first place...then blathering on about it. :lol2:

Alice

 

[Alice]

Doesn't have a thing to do with CNN. It has everything to do with spending a little time in Morocco AND working for years with middle easterners in an academic setting, and listening to them and their sarcastic take on the United States all the while accepting the very handsome salaries they were being paid.

Maybe if you would get your head out of Fox Network and radical right wing propaganda and allow a little bit of knowledge from different sources enter your brain, then form an independent thought of your own...Forget it...lost my head there.

Alice

How did you learn this in Morocco? Sounds like some info you must have gained since living Morocco if you ask me? :roll:

So now you have disgruntled Iraqis who are evermore likely to align themselves with Bin Laden and the likes of him, 'cause they want the U.S. out! And they are growing ever more radical because they want us out!

So please explain to me how you gained this vast knowledge of what the Iraqi people want NOW from when you lived in Morocco?

I think Alice meant to say "Mariachi", home to the Mariachi band, in Mexico. Over anejo tequila, there are great discussions over of the Iraqi people.

Nope, didn't mean anything other than I said...maybe you're projecting here...

I don't like tequila...how about you?

Alice

 

[aplusmnt]

Doesn't have a thing to do with CNN. It has everything to do with spending a little time in Morocco AND working for years with middle easterners in an academic setting, and listening to them and their sarcastic take on the United States all the while accepting the very handsome salaries they were being paid.

Maybe if you would get your head out of Fox Network and radical right wing propaganda and allow a little bit of knowledge from different sources enter your brain, then form an independent thought of your own...Forget it...lost my head there.

Alice

How did you learn this in Morocco? Sounds like some info you must have gained since living Morocco if you ask me? :roll:

So now you have disgruntled Iraqis who are evermore likely to align themselves with Bin Laden and the likes of him, 'cause they want the U.S. out! And they are growing ever more radical because they want us out!

So please explain to me how you gained this vast knowledge of what the Iraqi people want NOW from when you lived in Morocco?

What, you got some kind of crystal ball that you consult...'cause if you do you need it checked for technical difficulties...

So now you are trying to tell me how I really gained knowledge, huh...how I must've gained it...couldn't possibly be how I KNOW I gained it...Oh, this is good... :lol2: And, I never said I lived in Morocco, just spent a short time there...another indication of you reading something into something that was never there in the first place...then blathering on about it. :lol2:

Alice

Well enlighten me, it is a simple question. How did you learn that the Iraqi people wanted us out of Iraq when you were in Morocco? I am willing to learn and not assume all you have to do is just answer the question.

How do you know that Iraqi's want us to leave their country and leave them to be slaughtered by a the Radical Extremist? You think the South Vietnamese wanted us to leave also?

 

[Alice]

Doesn't have a thing to do with CNN. It has everything to do with spending a little time in Morocco AND working for years with middle easterners in an academic setting, and listening to them and their sarcastic take on the United States all the while accepting the very handsome salaries they were being paid.

Maybe if you would get your head out of Fox Network and radical right wing propaganda and allow a little bit of knowledge from different sources enter your brain, then form an independent thought of your own...Forget it...lost my head there.

Alice

How did you learn this in Morocco? Sounds like some info you must have gained since living Morocco if you ask me? :roll:

So now you have disgruntled Iraqis who are evermore likely to align themselves with Bin Laden and the likes of him, 'cause they want the U.S. out! And they are growing ever more radical because they want us out!

So please explain to me how you gained this vast knowledge of what the Iraqi people want NOW from when you lived in Morocco?

What, you got some kind of crystal ball that you consult...'cause if you do you need it checked for technical difficulties...

So now you are trying to tell me how I really gained knowledge, huh...how I must've gained it...couldn't possibly be how I KNOW I gained it...Oh, this is good... :lol2: And, I never said I lived in Morocco, just spent a short time there...another indication of you reading something into something that was never there in the first place...then blathering on about it. :lol2:

Alice

Well enlighten me, it is a simple question. How did you learn that the Iraqi people wanted us out of Iraq when you were in Morocco? I am willing to learn and not assume all you have to do is just answer the question.

How do you know that Iraqi's want us to leave their country and leave them to be slaughtered by a the Radical Extremist? You think the South Vietnamese wanted us to leave also?

Change the batteries in your crystal ball and check it...'cause aplusmnt, I am so over you and your assinine questions and assertions...

Alice

 

[Alice]

All right, Alice. Just to prove that I'm an equal opportunity critic:

That culture has always hated the Western world, yet it has always been happy enough to take what the Western world offered it by way of support.

Overstatement. Read up on the history of colonialism in the region.

Those people have no more idea that wild men how to exist in a democracy...and they don't care.

Democracy does have major obstacles to overcome if it will ever succeed in that region, but try to imagine what an outside observer would have said about Europe at various times during the course of it's often bloody history.

Just because democracy isn't too be found there now doesn't mean the seeds aren't lying dormant somewhere in the region. There are many voices for peace and democracy in those countries, but they are intimidated and overwhelmed by the governments in power.

I'll say it now...I do not like Middle Easterners...I do not like their culture and their willingness to take and take and take, then turn on it's benefactor.

Come on now, Alice.

I'm bothered by the sexism found in many traditional places in Southwest Asia. But there are a lot of positives about the culture too - just like any other. (I just read your other post - would it be fair to assume that the people you worked with in that academic setting were men? I don't want to devalue your experience, but might it have been different if you had been working with Middle Eastern women?)

Portraying the western powers as a benefactor in this region is a huge stretch. Google Mossadegh. He was the democratically elected President of Iran. He was removed in a C.I.A. coup. Our support of the Shah helped to foster some of the anti-American sentiments found in Iran and the entire region today.

These Middle Eastern Islamic extremeists have been fighting each other forever, and I mean FOREVER. War is nothing to them...it is a way of life for them.

Well somehow they took time off to invent hydraulics, algebra, and our current numerical system - along with a lot of neat poetry, art and music.

Don't buy the conventional wisdom. Europe and the United States have had a couple of periods of violence too.

I'm not thru, but I'm tired of typing a treatise that's gonna get bashed nine ways from Sunday anyway. What really depresses me is that anyone with a different opinion is considered a traitor...anyone that has an independent thought needs to be dropped into Bagdad. I love my country, I love my country very, very much...and I refuse to accept having my difference of opinion branding me as being a traitor.

I hope you don't think I'm bashing. Just disagreeing with a few points in a post that I otherwise agree with.

Sincerely,
Another "traitor"

No I don't think you are bashing...you have valid points in your disagreements. I don't know that they will make me change my mind, but I am willing to consider them and think on them.

Alice

 

[aplusmnt]

Doesn't have a thing to do with CNN. It has everything to do with spending a little time in Morocco AND working for years with middle easterners in an academic setting, and listening to them and their sarcastic take on the United States all the while accepting the very handsome salaries they were being paid.

Maybe if you would get your head out of Fox Network and radical right wing propaganda and allow a little bit of knowledge from different sources enter your brain, then form an independent thought of your own...Forget it...lost my head there.

Alice

How did you learn this in Morocco? Sounds like some info you must have gained since living Morocco if you ask me? :roll:

So now you have disgruntled Iraqis who are evermore likely to align themselves with Bin Laden and the likes of him, 'cause they want the U.S. out! And they are growing ever more radical because they want us out!

So please explain to me how you gained this vast knowledge of what the Iraqi people want NOW from when you lived in Morocco?

What, you got some kind of crystal ball that you consult...'cause if you do you need it checked for technical difficulties...

So now you are trying to tell me how I really gained knowledge, huh...how I must've gained it...couldn't possibly be how I KNOW I gained it...Oh, this is good... :lol2: And, I never said I lived in Morocco, just spent a short time there...another indication of you reading something into something that was never there in the first place...then blathering on about it. :lol2:

Alice

Well enlighten me, it is a simple question. How did you learn that the Iraqi people wanted us out of Iraq when you were in Morocco? I am willing to learn and not assume all you have to do is just answer the question.

How do you know that Iraqi's want us to leave their country and leave them to be slaughtered by a the Radical Extremist? You think the South Vietnamese wanted us to leave also?

Change the batteries in your crystal ball and check it...'cause aplusmnt, I am so over you and your assinine questions and assertions...

Alice

There you go with that Liberal blaaa blaaa again. You challenge me probably a Hundred times on this message board but when asked a simple question for you to just give a simple answer you are done with me :roll:

It is a simple question, how did you know that the Iraqi people want the U.S. to pull out based on your time spent in Morocco?

You know the answer, you are basing your opinion on this from what you see on the news. Watching those protesters poking sticks at burnt Americans, burning flags and chanting for us to leave. You got all your info from the Drive by media! ;-)

And you can not admit it!

Maybe you should change your identity like you did on Ranchers.net and try the discussion again :lol:

 

[Alice]

There you go with that Liberal blaaa blaaa again. You challenge me probably a Hundred times on this message board but when asked a simple question for you to just give a simple answer you are done with me :roll:

It is a simple question, how did you know that the Iraqi people want the U.S. to pull out based on your time spent in Morocco?

You know the answer, you are basing your opinion on this from what you see on the news. Watching those protesters poking sticks at burnt Americans, burning flags and chanting for us to leave. You got all your info from the Drive by media! ;-)

And you can not admit it!

Maybe you should change your identity like you did on Ranchers.net and try the discussion again :lol:

Nope, not gonna happen...I don't owe you any explanations other than what I have given. And if you're too dense to comprehend them, then deal with it.

Alice