Radical Islam

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aplusmnt":38ucu3ha said:
Alice":38ucu3ha said:
I did not bring America down to the level of the Islamic terrorist...I brought homegrown Neo Nazi White Supremacists and their horrific, hate filled acts against their own people, their fellow Americans, down to the level of Islamic terrorists. :mad: If you cannot see the correlation, then you, sir, have become irrational.

Alice

Sometimes it is not the literal word spoken but the timing in saying it, context or intentions.

And when you use words like "Timothy McVey, NOW there was a terrorist" What are you implying that all these Radical Terrorist we are talking about are small time ones, but NOW that Timothy he is the real deal.

Liberals are masters of the word [/b]BUT

Yea Saddam is a Bad evil man BUT we should have never really went to war with Iraq

Yea them Islamic Terrorist are bad people BUT we have Terrorist just as bad here in America.


Sometimes it is not the literal word spoken but the timing in saying it, context or intentions.

That is absurd.

Typical extreme right wing conservative desperation tactic...invent an intention that was never there, that was never written, that was never spoken.

And I don't see you expressing outrage against homegrown terrorists like McVey or White Supremacist Neo Nazis and their murderous acts against their own country and country men and women. Why is that, I wonder?

Alice
 
McVey is dead we handled that one, just like the nut that was bombing the abortion clinics. Lot of difference in some isolated nuts that need a bullet between the eyes than millions of people and an entire culture that wants you dead.
 
The United States should do the same.

Jack



Muslims who want to live under Islamic Shari law were told on
Wednesday to get out of Australia, as the government targeted
radicals in a bid to head off potential terror attacks.
A day after a group of mainstream Muslim leaders pledged loyalty to
Australia and her Queen at a special meeting with Prime Minister
John Howard, he and his Ministers made it clear that extremists
would face a crackdown. Treasurer Peter Costello, seen as heir
apparent to Howard, hinted that some radical clerics could be asked
to leave the country if they did not accept that Australia was a
secular state, and its laws were made by parliament "If those are
not your values, if you want a country which has Shari law or a
theocratic state, then Australia is not for you", he said on
National Television.
I'd be saying to clerics who are teaching that there are two laws
governing people in Australia: one the Australian law and another
Islamic law that is false. If you can't agree with parliamentary
law, independent courts, democracy, and would prefer Shari have the
opportunity to go to another country, which practices it,
perhaps, then, that's a better option", Costello said
Asked whether he meant radical clerics would be forced to leave, he
said those with dual citizenship could possibly be asked to move to
the other country. Education Minister Brendan Nelson later told
reporters that Muslims who did not want to accept local values
should "clear off. Basically people who don't want to be
Australians, and who don't want, to live by Australian values and
understand them, well then, they can basically clear off", he said.
Separately, Howard angered some Australian Muslims on Wednesday by
saying he supported spy agencies monitoring the nation's mosques.
Quote: "IMMIGRANTS, NOT AUSTRALIANS, MUST ADAPT. Take It Or Leave
It. I am tired of this nation worrying about whether we are
offending some individual or their culture. Since the terrorist
attacks on Bali, we have experienced a surge in patriotism by the
majority of Australians."
However, the dust from the attacks had barely settled when the
'politically correct' crowd began complaining about the possibility
that our patriotism was offending others. I am not against
immigration, nor do I hold a grudge against anyone who is seeking a
better life by coming to Australia." "However, there are a few
things that those who have recently come to our country, and
apparently some born here, need to understand." "This idea of
Australia being a multi-cultural community has served only to dilute
our sovereignty and our national identity. And as Australians, we
have our own culture, our own society, our own language and our own
lifestyle."
This culture has been developed over two centuries of struggles,
trials and victories by millions of men and women who have sought
freedom"
We speak mainly ENGLISH, not Spanish, Lebanese, Arabic, Chinese,
Japanese, Russian, or any other language. Therefore, if you wish to
become part of our society .. Learn the language!"
Most Australians believe in God. This is not some Christian, right
wing, political push, but a fact, because Christian men and women,
on Christian principles, founded this nation, and this is clearly
documented. It is certainly appropriate to display it on the walls
of our schools. If God offends you, then I suggest you consider
another part of the world as your new home, because God is part of
our culture."
We will accept your beliefs, and will not question why. All we ask
is that you accept ours, and live in harmony and peaceful enjoyment with
us."
"If the Southern Cross offends you, or you don't like "A Fair Go",
then you should seriously consider a move to another part of this
planet. We are happy with our culture and have no desire to
change, and we really don't care how you did things where you came
from. By all means, keep your culture, but do not force it on others.
This is OUR COUNTRY, OUR LAND, and OUR LIFESTYLE, and we will allow
you every opportunity to enjoy all this. But once you are done
complaining, whining, and griping about Our Flag, Our Pledge, Our
Christian beliefs, or Our Way of Life, I highly encourage you take
advantage of one other great Australian freedom,
'THE RIGHT TO LEAVE'."
 
Alice":1fczvb6k said:
And I don't see you expressing outrage against homegrown terrorists like McVey or White Supremacist Neo Nazis and their murderous acts against their own country and country men and women. Why is that, I wonder?

Alice

Start a thread about it and I will give my opinions on people like McVeigh and White Supremacist.

I have opinions on lots of issues. But the ones that are the most pressing to me today are Islamic Terrorist and the Moral Decay of the United States. These are the two things that will have the biggest affect on my children and future Grandchildren. I worry about these two areas enough, I can not fret over some single Terrorist act that happened 12 years ago. At that time I did worry about it, I have been there and read the cards on the fence. The millions of Muslims being taught to hate and kill us today keep me busy enough as it is nowadays.
 
novatech":26aw3p9z said:
KenB":26aw3p9z said:
novatech":26aw3p9z said:
KenB":26aw3p9z said:
novatech":26aw3p9z said:
badaxemoo":26aw3p9z said:
Angus/Brangus":26aw3p9z said:
Alright. Let's forget about commercial Christianity. How about your own Christian values? And, if you're not Christian then how about just your values? Are they worth fighting for?

What has to happen for you to give your stamp of approval on eliminating radical Islamists?

I don't believe that Christian values of any stripe are being threatened by radical Islamists, so I can't really answer your first question.

I don't think it's our place to eliminate all radical Islamists, just as I would never propose eliminating Christian fundamentalists. Those that conspire or take action against the United States need to be dealt with, but I don't think it is possible to eliminate an ideology through military intervention.

If anything, our ham-fisted intervention in Iraq has created more radicals.

Rethinking our Middle East policies would do more to decrease the threat of terrorism than all of our cruise missiles combined.

Rethinking does not do anything.
We need to rethink is a political answer.
It is easy for you to play armchair president.
So what is your answer?
How are you going to stop terrorism?

I don't believe it is possible!

Remember we have had our own home grown terrotist,
OK City- McVey, The Unibomber, Whoever sent the Anthrax by mail, Kids killing class mates, Snipers shooting at random vehicles, The list could go on and on.

That skirts the question.
Simply like badaxemoo political response.
Or is your answer to do nothing, sit and be the sheep to slaughter.
I cannot do anything about it . I guess I'll just have to go back and hide in my closet and shut my eyes again.

:roll: I think YOU are the one that must stay in the closet.
A question was asked...How are you going to stop terrorism? And I gave an answer...I don't believe it is possible!
Why do you think that I don't what to do anything about it, or sit and be the sheep to slaughter.

Some of the things that I think should be done is...
1- Have a strong National Guard here in the USA to Guard the USA.
2- Use the dollars that is being wasted in Iraq to protect our borders, and ports, airports, local police, civil defense, stronger- smarter inteligence services, etc, etc
3- Identify the Radical Muslums in this country that are supporting terrorism and put them in prison. (Use racial profiling when needed)
4- Better cooperation with our foreign allies. (make new ones)

The USA can not win a global war on terrorism, but we can do a better job of winning it here, and assist the rest of the world in suppressing it.

So you advocate waiting until it gets to our shores.

It was what happened on 9/11 that started this war.

At present the terriosts have not been doing anything in this country because we are keeping them busy in Iraq.

Do you think they could not spare a few terrorist to bring to this country? They managed to spare a few to attack England.

Just what I have been saying.
Keep on backing up until they are at your closet door.
The agressive approch that has been taken thus far has been working. And granted, at great expense, but worth it.


Afghanistan was and still is the place that bred this round of terrorism, but it has been put on the back burner since we went into Iraq.

Iraq is a key location to maintain control of the islamic countries.

I fully agree with this, but the only way for us to control Iraq is to rule the country and that doesn't appear to be a viable option.

They have conviction, do you?

Yes, I just think mine is reasonable, and yours is not.
 
Alice":2p0mzwoe said:
aplusmnt":2p0mzwoe said:
Alice":2p0mzwoe said:
I did not bring America down to the level of the Islamic terrorist...I brought homegrown Neo Nazi White Supremacists and their horrific, hate filled acts against their own people, their fellow Americans, down to the level of Islamic terrorists. :mad: If you cannot see the correlation, then you, sir, have become irrational.

Alice

Sometimes it is not the literal word spoken but the timing in saying it, context or intentions.

And when you use words like "Timothy McVey, NOW there was a terrorist" What are you implying that all these Radical Terrorist we are talking about are small time ones, but NOW that Timothy he is the real deal.

Liberals are masters of the word [/b]BUT

Yea Saddam is a Bad evil man BUT we should have never really went to war with Iraq

Yea them Islamic Terrorist are bad people BUT we have Terrorist just as bad here in America.


Sometimes it is not the literal word spoken but the timing in saying it, context or intentions.

That is absurd.

Typical extreme right wing conservative desperation tactic...invent an intention that was never there, that was never written, that was never spoken.

And I don't see you expressing outrage against homegrown terrorists like McVey or White Supremacist Neo Nazis and their murderous acts against their own country and country men and women. Why is that, I wonder?

Alice


What do these people have to do with Islamic Terrorist ?
Is this a deversion tactic?
What does it have to do with the subject?
You know your wrong and just grabbing at straws.
And exactly why should have not gone to war in Iraq?
Maybe because he kept control of the area through the use of genocide.
Maybe because he was so good at torture.
Maybe because he would have expanded his control over the islamic world if we had let him.
I,m sure you could come up with some more good reasons.
 
Jack.Diamond -

Do you have a date or web site reference that I could use for that article in Austrialia? I'd like to send that to a few of my political partners.

Can you PM me on that? Thanks.
 
Martial law?
Throw away the Constitution?

Some of the things that I think should be done is...
1- Have a strong National Guard here in the USA to Guard the USA.
2- Use the dollars that is being wasted in Iraq to protect our borders, and ports, airports, local police, civil defense, stronger- smarter inteligence services, etc, etc
3- Identify the Radical Muslums in this country that are supporting terrorism and put them in prison. (Use racial profiling when needed)
4- Better cooperation with our foreign allies. (make new ones)
 
Well, it took a while to read all 20 pages of this one...

What I find interesting is that no one mentioned the U.S. set the stage for all of this way back in the late 70's (?) when they allowed the Iranians to take our embassy hostage and not pay the price! Carter should have told them to turn em loose or pay the price. If it would have taken the entire U.S. military to go in after them, then so be it! We just showed them the lack of resolve to stop them way back then. :(

You cannot stop radicals of any specific agenda...period. What we as a country have become is complacent and soft...we do not want to see dead bodies on the evening news. We do not want to offend anyone so we look to the rest of the world for approval. Many no longer realize the reason we can all sit at our computers and call each other names without fear of reprisal is that others before us took a stand against things that were wrong.

If a person is willing to give his life to achieve a goal...be it an asassination, bombing, or whatever, that individual is almost impossible to stop.

We want to take a stand against something, them commit limited resources to it for fear of being labeled a bully. When limited resources do not work...well, maybe this was a bad idea. The Islamic issue has been compared to WWII...kinda apples and oranges to me...both still fruit, but different. There was a commitment to WWII...remember Rosie the riveter? These half-hearted commitments by politicians, for the sake of politics, really make me sick to my stomach as they put my friends, neighbors, and fellow Americans in harm's way without a commitment to a satifactory conclusion.

You may come into my yard and kick my a$$, but I will have given it everything I have to make you think it a was bad idea.

We want results...we just don't want the pain of the commitment.

I always remember a line from an old Steven Segal movie...fits well here...

Everybody want go heaven, nobody want get dead!

And, as others have said, this is just my opinion but thank God I have the priviledge to sit and write it at my own leisure!

Van
 
novatech":1sk61ng9 said:
Martial law?
Throw away the Constitution?

Some of the things that I think should be done is...
1- Have a strong National Guard here in the USA to Guard the USA.
2- Use the dollars that is being wasted in Iraq to protect our borders, and ports, airports, local police, civil defense, stronger- smarter inteligence services, etc, etc
3- Identify the Radical Muslums in this country that are supporting terrorism and put them in prison. (Use racial profiling when needed)
4- Better cooperation with our foreign allies. (make new ones)

Now where in my statement does it imply Martial law or Violating the Constitution?
We are using the National Guard right now on the Mexican border, and could use more.
 
KenB":2m52nmel said:
novatech":2m52nmel said:
Martial law?
Throw away the Constitution?

Some of the things that I think should be done is...
1- Have a strong National Guard here in the USA to Guard the USA.
2- Use the dollars that is being wasted in Iraq to protect our borders, and ports, airports, local police, civil defense, stronger- smarter inteligence services, etc, etc
3- Identify the Radical Muslums in this country that are supporting terrorism and put them in prison. (Use racial profiling when needed)
4- Better cooperation with our foreign allies. (make new ones)

Now where in my statement does it imply Martial law or Violating the Constitution?
We are using the National Guard right now on the Mexican border, and could use more.
Racial profiling
Without martial law how are you going to watch every single person 24-7
Are you going to build a fence around the nation
How about we could tag everyone, anyone without a tag we shoot.
Can,t do this, right. Anything less would not stop a terrorist.
That's why we have to stop them before thay come to our borders.
This is why the present administration is doing a pretty darn good job, both democrats and republicans.
Thats probably why people like you are not running the country
 
novatech":2mq5d32z said:
KenB":2mq5d32z said:
novatech":2mq5d32z said:
Martial law?
Throw away the Constitution?

Some of the things that I think should be done is...
1- Have a strong National Guard here in the USA to Guard the USA.
2- Use the dollars that is being wasted in Iraq to protect our borders, and ports, airports, local police, civil defense, stronger- smarter inteligence services, etc, etc
3- Identify the Radical Muslums in this country that are supporting terrorism and put them in prison. (Use racial profiling when needed)
4- Better cooperation with our foreign allies. (make new ones)

Now where in my statement does it imply Martial law or Violating the Constitution?
We are using the National Guard right now on the Mexican border, and could use more.
Racial profiling
Without martial law how are you going to watch every single person 24-7
Are you going to build a fence around the nation
How about we could tag everyone, anyone without a tag we shoot.
Can,t do this, right. Anything less would not stop a terrorist.
That's why we have to stop them before thay come to our borders.
This is why the present administration is doing a pretty darn good job, both democrats and republicans.
Thats probably why people like you are not running the country

Get your head out of a, a the sand.
Maybe a little education.

Racial profiling is not against the Constitution.

Do you really think what is going on in Iraq has prevented the terrorist from coming here? If you do you are alot dumber then I thought.

"Thats probably why people like you are not running the country"

From the looks of the last election, and some of the changes taking place in the present administration it appears that more people like me are starting to.
 
KenB":2cyzsll7 said:
Afghanistan was and still is the place that bred this round of terrorism, but it has been put on the back burner since we went into Iraq.

I get tired of hearing this! We are fighting in Afghanistan, it is not on the back burner. The only thing on the Back burner is the Media. The media prefers to talk about Iraq because if it Bleeds it leads, 3,000 deaths vs 300 deaths make for better news and Politics.

Another interesting thing about the Afghan war is there were protesters against this war also. Some Libs like to point out how they support the war in Afghanistan but not Iraq. Well there was big protest even about going to Afghan here in the U.S. , London and the world abroad. Just the Media did not cover it.

That is how crazy the Liberals are that they protested us even going to Afghanistan :roll:

To me any war with a country that by actions of its Governing leaders can be classified as a Radical Terroristic Muslim nation is a Just war. That would for sure include, Afghanistan, Iraq, Iran and Syria. The president should have Carta Blanc to wage war on any of these nations as he sees fit! They are our enemies and aim to not only kill our children but then hang their burned bodies from lamp post and dance around celebrating!
 
KenB":1eunkekc said:
novatech":1eunkekc said:
KenB":1eunkekc said:
novatech":1eunkekc said:
Martial law?
Throw away the Constitution?

Some of the things that I think should be done is...
1- Have a strong National Guard here in the USA to Guard the USA.
2- Use the dollars that is being wasted in Iraq to protect our borders, and ports, airports, local police, civil defense, stronger- smarter inteligence services, etc, etc
3- Identify the Radical Muslums in this country that are supporting terrorism and put them in prison. (Use racial profiling when needed)
4- Better cooperation with our foreign allies. (make new ones)

Now where in my statement does it imply Martial law or Violating the Constitution?
We are using the National Guard right now on the Mexican border, and could use more.
Racial profiling
Without martial law how are you going to watch every single person 24-7
Are you going to build a fence around the nation
How about we could tag everyone, anyone without a tag we shoot.
Can,t do this, right. Anything less would not stop a terrorist.
That's why we have to stop them before thay come to our borders.
This is why the present administration is doing a pretty darn good job, both democrats and republicans.
Thats probably why people like you are not running the country

Get your head out of a, a the sand.
Maybe a little education.

Racial profiling is not against the Constitution.

Do you really think what is going on in Iraq has prevented the terrorist from coming here? If you do you are alot dumber then I thought.

"Thats probably why people like you are not running the country"

From the looks of the last election, and some of the changes taking place in the present administration it appears that more people like me are starting to.
If they are like you.
I guess its time to stock up on amunition.
Thats probably something else your against.
It is also my experience that when people resort to name calling it's because they know thay are wrong.
 
We need more Leaders like Australia's foreign minister

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jh ... woz108.xml

I love this quote of his, shows you the backbone of the French

He criticised countries like France who have sent forces to Afghanistan – but only on condition that their troops do not operate in the south, where the fighting against the Taliban is fiercest.

"It's very rude to say these people want to help al-Qa'eda. They don't. But obviously America's enemies take comfort from continual attacks on America by America's friends," he said. "Before you leap out there and vigorously attack America, think about what you're saying and the consequences of what you're saying."
 
aplusmnt":24fgkr8b said:
For those that do not know what kind of People we are dealing with go see for yourself what they do to our soldiers

http://www.homestead.com/prosites-prs/f ... small1.jpg

http://www.homestead.com/prosites-prs/f ... small2.jpg

http://www.homestead.com/prosites-prs/f ... hnson2.jpg

Not to put too fine a point on it, but if those were the men killed before the battle of Fallujah, they were civilian security contractors (who were probably former military men).

It's also possible to dig up all kinds of horrendous photos of innocent Iraqi civilians that have been killed by U.S. troops. They are frequently shown on Arabic language television stations. Iraqis have legitimate grievances and so do we. Where does that leave us?

I have a book that shows many horrible photographs of burned, hanging corpses. They are images of lynchings in the United States.

These actions are committed by angry people, often driven by ignorance, ethnocentrism, and blind hatred. You can find them throughout human history in every culture.

No religion or culture has immunity from it, despite what some people seem to imply on this thread.
 
badaxemoo":4fahr6z1 said:
aplusmnt":4fahr6z1 said:
For those that do not know what kind of People we are dealing with go see for yourself what they do to our soldiers

http://www.homestead.com/prosites-prs/f ... small1.jpg

http://www.homestead.com/prosites-prs/f ... small2.jpg

http://www.homestead.com/prosites-prs/f ... hnson2.jpg

Not to put too fine a point on it, but if those were the men killed before the battle of Fallujah, they were civilian security contractors (who were probably former military men).

It's also possible to dig up all kinds of horrendous photos of innocent Iraqi civilians that have been killed by U.S. troops. They are frequently shown on Arabic language television stations. Iraqis have legitimate grievances and so do we. Where does that leave us?

I have a book that shows many horrible photographs of burned, hanging corpses. They are images of lynchings in the United States.

These actions are committed by angry people, often driven by ignorance, ethnocentrism, and blind hatred. You can find them throughout human history in every culture.

No religion or culture has immunity from it, despite what some people seem to imply on this thread.

It is Fallujah so might not be soldiers. I know there is some of soldiers also, I think after one helicopter crash.

You are trying to lessen their evil by listing actions of individuals in the U.S. years ago.

You are using that BUT word.

There is a big difference in Race crimes by selected individuals than a Religion that promotes and teaches the destruction of Every Jew and American.
 
aplusmnt wrote:

You are trying to lessen their evil by listing actions of individuals in the U.S. years ago.

No, I'm not. I'm just stating the fact that these types of actions have been found in human groups throughout history. The ethnocentric attitudes that provide the foundation for violence are expressed by many on this board.

There is a big difference in Race crimes by selected individuals than a Religion that promotes and teaches the destruction of Every Jew and American.

In the specifics there are differences. But it is a fact that in both examples, a hateful ideology provides the foundation for these violent actions.

Widespread lynchings would not have occurred without the pervasive racism that existed during the Jim Crow era in the United States. The burning of those American contractor's bodies wouldn't have occurred without the anti-Americanism that is found in Iraq. I don't condone either activity, but functionally, I fail to see a distinct moral difference.

I'm not a Muslim and I don't ascribe to the tenets of the religion. My brother lived in a Muslim country for 3 years. Not once did the issue of religion create any problems for him. The people in the village he lived in knew that he was not Muslim and did nothing to try to convert him. They welcomed him with open hearts. The majority of the world's Muslims have more in common with my brother's friends than they do with the radicals.

While some sects of Islam might teach destruction of "infidels" they are nowhere near the majority of Muslims. Of course you can cherry pick verses from the Koran that make it sound like a bloodthirsty religion, but the same can be done from the Bible (and people get plenty peeved around here if you do!). I'd prefer to judge a religion by how its adherents behave rather than attempting a flawed interpretation of ancient texts.

When it comes to religious tolerance, from a historical perspective Islam arguably has a better record than Christianity. The Moors in Spain allowed Jews and Christians to live within their society (albeit without full rights). What happened when the Christians retook Spain?

Some of you might benefit from reading up on the history and practice of Islam. Karen Armstrong (a former nun I think) wrote a brief and informative book about the history of the religion.
 
badaxemoo":2wne4zw8 said:
aplusmnt wrote:

You are trying to lessen their evil by listing actions of individuals in the U.S. years ago.

No, I'm not. I'm just stating the fact that these types of actions have been found in human groups throughout history. The ethnocentric attitudes expressed by many on this board show that they still exist in our own country.

There is a big difference in Race crimes by selected individuals than a Religion that promotes and teaches the destruction of Every Jew and American.

In the specifics there are differences. But it is a fact that in both exmaples, it is an ideological base that provides the foundation for these violent actions.

Widespread lynchings would not have occurred without the pervasive racism that existed during the Jim Crow era in the United States. The burning of those American contractor's bodies wouldn't have occurred without the anti-Americanism that has developed in Iraq. I don't condone either activity, but functionally, I fail to see a distinct moral difference.

I'm not a Muslim and I don't ascribe to the tenets of the religion. My brother lived in a Muslim country for 3 years. Not once did the issue of religion create any problems for him. The majority of the world's Muslims live in peace and tolerate their neighbors.

While some sects of Islam might teach destruction of "infidels" they are nowhere near the majority of Muslims. Of course you can cherry pick verses from the Koran that make it sound like a bloodthirsty religion, but the same can be done from the Bible (and people get plenty peeved around here if you do!)

When it comes to religious tolerance, Islam arguably has a better record than Christianity. The Moors in Spain allowed Jews and Christians to live within their society (albeit without full rights). What happened when the Christians retook Spain?

You, and many others would benefit from reading up on the history of Islam. Karen Armstrong (a former nun I think) wrote a brief and informative book about the history of the religion.

I do not care about the history of Islam, the history Christainity or The history of the KKK. I live in 2007 and in 2007 Islamic Radicals and Islamic Governed Countries wish to bring death to every American and Jew. What is that amount to? Around 350 Million People they have vowed to kill? Hitler did not even have them high of hopes he was a Bush league player compared to the Radical Muslim and Radical Muslim Nations.

Cherry Picking the Koran to MAKE THEM SOUND like a blood thirsty religion? I do not have to pick through the Koran to prove that, turn on the TV the proof is there, all picking through the Koran does is show why they are doing it.

I think I am finished debating with you over the Good Versus Evil of Christianity and Islam, the fruit ages of those religions are there for you to see, if you can not see them there is nothing I can do to help that situation.

If you have any doubts about them I will personally buy you a "I hate Jesus Shirt" and an "I hate Muhammad" shirt you can wear the Jesus one to a Christian gathering and the Muhammad one to a Muslim gather and we will see which one is the God of peace. ;-)

Ps. You better go to the Christian one first because good chance you might not be alive after wearing the Muhammad shirt
 
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