Question on Bull for my wants/needs.. Hereford VS Charolais

[machslammer]

I have the ability to buy one of the following bulls. I have commercial black and BWF cows. Medium to Larger Framed cows ~ 1000-1300 lb cows. No heifers left to breed. I only want to raise beef calves to sell as quickly as possible between the 500-600lb mark. I would like them to achieve this in 5-6 months of age. I do have an available creep feeder for assistance as well, but the mommas do a wonderful job on their own. The cows I have are between 2 and 10 yrs old. I only have 15 at this time(small operation) for the bull to breed. Please feel free to judge all animals based on your opinion. I like learning from experienced people. Thanks in advance for opinions.

1)Hereford: 20 months old. EPD: 2.5 CE, 0.7 BW, 39 WW, 61 YW, 27 MM, 46 M&G. Scrotal Sac was 38.

2)This Bull is a Full Blooded Charolais 3 yr old: No EPD available.
His father is a Wyoming Wind Sir. His Dam in a Cigar.

3) This Bull is also a Full Blooded Charolais: Turned 2 in Feb. Halter Broke and won grand Ch at some shows(I don;t show). Bred some heifers and had no problem calving. 70# BW. His calves not very old so hard to judge how they are going to look at my 5-6 month mark. EPD: 2.2 BW, 32 WW, 51 YW, MK 11, total Maternal 27.

 

[ANAZAZI]

If theese bulls are your only option, then use the bottom charolais. :2cents:

 

[Warrior2154]

Do you plan to retain any heifers or are you selling all calves? Reason is for a terminal cross Charolais is the better choice there. In ky buyers love the black white face cattle so if that's true for you then the Hereford isn't a bad choice, I would prefer a little more depth to the bull, but solid bull.

 

[herefordlover]

cant belive a hereford man is saying this but i would use the bottom bull also .......

 

[3waycross]

I'd use the 3rd one. He's a little cowy for his age and his growth EPD's seem light but i don't know Char EPD's so can't really say but he is a better bull than the other two. He should also have a lot of calving ease. The herf should be banded and the other Char is just plain ugly!

 

[BRG]

I would use a Char over a Hereford. My main reason is if your cows are white faced already, adding Hereford to it will make feather necks which in turn will mean a dock at the barn when you sell. A Char will also add extra weaning weight as well. A Black or Black White Faced cow and a Char bull is one of the most proven crosses in the industry and the feeders like them. Plus I don't like that Hereford bull. The first Char has a great pedigree, and the third looks the best, but if he has been shown he has seen an easier life, so that may be why he looks the best.

 

[Lucky_P]

Either of the Charolais over that Hereford, especially for what you're wanting to do.
Plus, with a Hereford over black baldy cows(or even solid black crossbreds) - you may get some red calves, some of which may look like straight Herefords - not necessarily a bad thing, but depending on what the buyers in your area 'want', it may cost you some $$$ when you sell those calves.

 

[ALACOWMAN]

the last bull... the char ...

 

[machslammer]

Dunno about any. Third weighs 1800# and guy wants 3000, second weighs 2000# guy wants 2000$, first weighs 1500 guys want 1800. Like the temper of first bull. Could use more butt though.. Will retain no heifers at this time. Sell all... Both bulls easy calving bulls by epds, but who knows.. Not many good prospect bulls around here that i can find without spending a fortune on them....

 

[u4411clb]

Since your goal is only heaviest weaning weights you can achieve in the quickest time frame. Char's are going to be yyour choice over Hereford 99.9% of the time. That is just not what Herefords are made for. And easily the 2nd Char is the better choice.

 

[3waycross]

Since your goal is only heaviest weaning weights you can achieve in the quickest time frame. Char's are going to be yyour choice over Hereford 99.9% of the time. That is just not what Herefords are made for. And easily the 2nd Char is the better choice.

I checked out the weaning weights on Wyoming Wind and Cigar. They are both right on the same growth numbers as the 3rd bull so what would be the advantage of using the second bull, when his EPD's for growth are not any better and his calving ease is unknown!

 

[machslammer]

But if none of the above are gonna work for what i want then i don't want to waste my money... What kind of epds do i look for to achieve what i want? My cows should be able to have a bigger calf fairly easy..

 

[HOSS]

I am assuming since you posted pics from golsn that you are either from Tennessee or southern Kentucky. In this are Char x Angus crosses seem to do pretty well. I would go with one of the Char bulls. Crossing herf onto your baldies might give you too much herf influence getting your calves docked at the sale. I do not like that herf bull at all.

 

[machslammer]

Won't let me post with admin allowing it... Thanks for all the replies so far..yeah I'm from middle tn, and prob won't buy any of the above. Not crazy about any to be honest.. I want something that's throwing 70-80# calves and don't think any will do this.. I like a little color to calves, ie baldies, smoke, white with black noses and feet, but have to grow rapidly. Need a bull to assist with cows too do this. Thanks again. Yes those two were on local sales.

 

[u4411clb]

Since your goal is only heaviest weaning weights you can achieve in the quickest time frame. Char's are going to be yyour choice over Hereford 99.9% of the time. That is just not what Herefords are made for. And easily the 2nd Char is the better choice.

I checked out the weaning weights on Wyoming Wind and Cigar. They are both right on the same growth numbers as the 3rd bull so what would be the advantage of using the second bull, when his EPD's for growth are not any better and his calving ease is unknown!

I said the 2nd Charolais bull. Which in this case would be the 3rd bull overall with the known epds. I said it that way after totally discounting the Hereford bull because he was looking for pounds at weaning and not keeping replacements.

 

[3waycross]

Since your goal is only heaviest weaning weights you can achieve in the quickest time frame. Char's are going to be yyour choice over Hereford 99.9% of the time. That is just not what Herefords are made for. And easily the 2nd Char is the better choice.

I checked out the weaning weights on Wyoming Wind and Cigar. They are both right on the same growth numbers as the 3rd bull so what would be the advantage of using the second bull, when his EPD's for growth are not any better and his calving ease is unknown!

I said the 2nd Charolais bull. Which in this case would be the 3rd bull overall with the known epds. I said it that way after totally discounting the Hereford bull because he was looking for pounds at weaning and not keeping replacements.

So we both said the same bull only a different way. :lol2: :lol2: :tiphat:

 

[machslammer]

Anyone have any reccomendations to other breeds of bulls that will throw more of the black/BWF coloring into calves with larger BW rapid growing calves. Tried a balancer bull but didn't like him or calves either...

With that being said.. Anyone know of reputable Char/large calving bull breeders around us in middle TN? Thanks a bunch.

Are Hereford calves just not rapid growing buggers or what? Most just use for replacements? Thanks.

Gene

 

[brimmer X]

Based on your last comment. Why not a black Simmental or SimAngus. You could probably find a bald face Sim bull out there. Of the bulls listed earlier,definately the Char. The smoke sell well here in Arkansas. I would think, they'd do well in Tn also.

 

[HOSS]

Gelbvieh and Limousine would be good choices. There are some good reputable breeders of both in your general area. They both will put some pounds on a calf.

 

[Nesikep]

I'll second the last two posts, I'd try hard to stick with something black in your case to minimize "fragmentation" of your sale lot into lots of 1 and 2 animals just because they look different... Perhaps Balancer's could be good for you too