Purebred Angus Cross

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I was wondering how many other people on this board are confused about how you can start registries for cross cattle in their first year?? Their seems to be Black everything now and they are making EPD's for them on the first generation... not sure how this works if anybody understand how they can figure that stuff out let me know.

[email protected]
 
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Anonymous

Jake, cattle breeding in the USA is very easy and simple. All you gotta do is pick the best black ones and keep breeding. That isn't hard to do. Hint, best equals fastest growing. Then after that you can cite EPD's or some expert or something to justify your decisions. Easy as pie. That is how the majority of cattle producers are conducting breeding programs nowdays. Join the herd
 
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Anonymous

Anyone with some money can start a breed registry. EPDs are computed by a computer program, based on numbers submitted by breeders. The "trick" with EPDs is accuracy. Those crossbred cattle will not breed as true as purebred cattle. Some groups only have reliable EPD information on the Angus side of the crossbreed they are pushing. And EPDs are only as good as the data that makes them up. But its a free country (if you're in the US) and everyone is trying to make a living.

> I was wondering how many other
> people on this board are confused
> about how you can start registries
> for cross cattle in their first
> year?? Their seems to be Black
> everything now and they are making
> EPD's for them on the first
> generation... not sure how this
> works if anybody understand how
> they can figure that stuff out let
> me know.
 

Jake

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ok this topic is OLD, I did some digging and found it. this is what we've been discussing with the black herefords and the angus lookalikes. Why does everything have to abandon tradition and go black? just advertise angus cross, you'll do just as good or better that way anyway. Wouldn't you?
 

Campground Cattle

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Jake":1snl1g05 said:
ok this topic is OLD, I did some digging and found it. this is what we've been discussing with the black herefords and the angus lookalikes. Why does everything have to abandon tradition and go black? just advertise angus cross, you'll do just as good or better that way anyway. Wouldn't you?

Jake I can't figure out why all these "Cattlemen" want to turn everything Black. If you want Black raise Angus if you can't hunt with the bigdogs get under the porch. Quit messing up perfectly functional breeds because you can't compete. If you turn everything black then it has to go to quality, if you don't have it now you won't have it then. It's about mangement , quality,not color.
 

Hobby Hereford

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Campground Cattle":9704xx28 said:
Jake":9704xx28 said:
ok this topic is OLD, I did some digging and found it. this is what we've been discussing with the black herefords and the angus lookalikes. Why does everything have to abandon tradition and go black? just advertise angus cross, you'll do just as good or better that way anyway. Wouldn't you?

Jake I can't figure out why all these "Cattlemen" want to turn everything Black. If you want Black raise Angus if you can't hunt with the bigdogs get under the porch. Quit messing up perfectly functional breeds because you can't compete. If you turn everything black then it has to go to quality, if you don't have it now you won't have it then. It's about mangement , quality,not color.

I'm going to state this once and never again. Maybe some of us are new
and are trying to understand xbreeding so when we see great traits of different cattle we are wondering how to combine them and get the best of both breeds. Maybe we are small time and will never be able to hunt with the bigdogs but we are trying to learn and gain knowledge
 

dun

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Hobby Hereford":29peiljw said:
I'm going to state this once and never again. Maybe some of us are new
and are trying to understand xbreeding so when we see great traits of different cattle we are wondering how to combine them and get the best of both breeds. Maybe we are small time and will never be able to hunt with the bigdogs but we are trying to learn and gain knowledge

Probably everything that can possibly be crossed have been crossed. Maybe even Dexters and Chaolais. If the cross didn't provide an economically viable outcome it most likely wasn't an optimum combination. Turning everything black I feel is a carry over from the excellent marketing that the blk Angus association has done over the years that provides premiums for cattle that make the CAB spec. For years a fair black calf sold for more then a good anything else. Now with the newer marketing/premium packages available, it doesn't make much sense to throw in the blk Angus influence except for what the individual animal brings to the mating.
In my opinion, and it's strictly my opinion, black Herefords answer an unasked question. It seems like just one more way for some folks to seperate others from their money.

dun
 

Texan

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dun":28zyguqb said:
In my opinion, and it's strictly my opinion, black Herefords answer an unasked question. It seems like just one more way for some folks to seperate others from their money.
Its a good opinion, though Dun. That's a real good way to put it. There will be a little money change pockets until it turns into just another fizzled fad.
 

mobetter11

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Jake":33ysesi6 said:
I was wondering how many other people on this board are confused about how you can start registries for cross cattle in their first year?? Their seems to be Black everything now and they are making EPD's for them on the first generation... not sure how this works if anybody understand how they can figure that stuff out let me know.

[email protected]

I'm not sure if this is exactly what your wanting or not.

I am not sure how other breed registeries work, but, this is how the American Simmental Assoc. is.

Cross bred cow bred to Reg. Simbrah bull = 1/2 % Reg. Simbrah heifer.
That 1/2 reg. Heifer bred to Reg. Simbrah bull =3/4 % Reg.Simbrah heifer
That 3/4 reg. heifer bred to Reg.Simbrah bull = Purebred Simbrah heifer.

Heifer 3rd generation is Purebred Simbrah.

Each reg. will produce EPD's, but, the accuracy number will be low percentage. But, 1st calf Reg. heifer's have low accuracy numbers too.


Watch you accuracy percentage numbers.

If this isn't what you wanted, sorry, just trying to help.
 

Campground Cattle

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dun":39rm0lmy said:
Hobby Hereford":39rm0lmy said:
I'm going to state this once and never again. Maybe some of us are new
and are trying to understand xbreeding so when we see great traits of different cattle we are wondering how to combine them and get the best of both breeds. Maybe we are small time and will never be able to hunt with the bigdogs but we are trying to learn and gain knowledge

Probably everything that can possibly be crossed have been crossed. Maybe even Dexters and Chaolais. If the cross didn't provide an economically viable outcome it most likely wasn't an optimum combination. Turning everything black I feel is a carry over from the excellent marketing that the blk Angus association has done over the years that provides premiums for cattle that make the CAB spec. For years a fair black calf sold for more then a good anything else. Now with the newer marketing/premium packages available, it doesn't make much sense to throw in the blk Angus influence except for what the individual animal brings to the mating.
In my opinion, and it's strictly my opinion, black Herefords answer an unasked question. It seems like just one more way for some folks to seperate others from their money.

dun

Very well put
 

sillco

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mobetter11":274l88g2 said:
Jake":274l88g2 said:
I was wondering how many other people on this board are confused about how you can start registries for cross cattle in their first year?? Their seems to be Black everything now and they are making EPD's for them on the first generation... not sure how this works if anybody understand how they can figure that stuff out let me know.

[email protected]

I'm not sure if this is exactly what your wanting or not.

I am not sure how other breed registeries work, but, this is how the American Simmental Assoc. is.

Cross bred cow bred to Reg. Simbrah bull = 1/2 % Reg. Simbrah heifer.
That 1/2 reg. Heifer bred to Reg. Simbrah bull =3/4 % Reg.Simbrah heifer
That 3/4 reg. heifer bred to Reg.Simbrah bull = Purebred Simbrah heifer.

Heifer 3rd generation is Purebred Simbrah.

Each reg. will produce EPD's, but, the accuracy number will be low percentage. But, 1st calf Reg. heifer's have low accuracy numbers too.


Watch you accuracy percentage numbers.

If this isn't what you wanted, sorry, just trying to help.

That is where the Brangus is different. The cross start with a REGISTERED Bman and a registered Angus. The first cross (F1) is then certified. Then the F1 is bred to a registered Brahman bull to create a 3/4 Brahman female. The 3/4 certified female is then bred to a Registered Angus bull and the calve will be a 3/8th x 5/8th Registered Brangus
 

greenwillowherefords

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I've read a great quote on black "Herefords:"

"These are promoted by the kind of people who would try to sell ice cubes to an Eskimo."

I can think of no real reason other than cashing in on black premium prices in many markets to have black Herefords so-called. You obviously get more heterosis with the real F1 black-baldie, and quality cattle and bulls from both breeds are readily available. Raise black baldies if you want to, but don't try to force them on me as Herefords.
 

Jake

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The only thing is that every other breed has done the same thing. Why try to pass a black simmie off as a simmie or a black gelbvieh off as a gelvieh if you won't take a black hereford as a hereford. I'm not saying that I think they should be in the same registry and all that, but they are here now and are increasing in popularity. BECAUSE THEY'RE BLACK. it's as simple as that, black sells better almost everywhere. So why run the risk of having red calves out of your calves if you can guarantee yourself blacks?
 

TheBullLady

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I've been hearing rumblings in the Simmental world that the breed is starting to swing back to the reds.. great idea! I agree.. if you want black cattle, breed Angus. I don't see the point in changing the characteristics. Kinda like ripping up a native pasture to put in bermuda grass. Why mess with something that's proven? I think the answer to that may be producers trying to separate cattlepeople from their $$$.
 

la4angus

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TheBullLady":39r6pfwk said:
Why mess with something that's proven? I think the answer to that may be producers trying to separate cattlepeople from their $$$.

Try Promoters trying to separate cattle people from their $$$
 

greenwillowherefords

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Jake":fe5zesmo said:
The only thing is that every other breed has done the same thing. Why try to pass a black simmie off as a simmie or a black gelbvieh off as a gelvieh if you won't take a black hereford as a hereford. I'm not saying that I think they should be in the same registry and all that, but they are here now and are increasing in popularity. BECAUSE THEY'RE BLACK. it's as simple as that, black sells better almost everywhere. So why run the risk of having red calves out of your calves if you can guarantee yourself blacks?

No offense, but just because everyone else jumps off a cliff.......
 

Jake

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Still willow, it's the same thing. You can't say a black hereford isn't a hereford if you'll say a black gelbvieh is a gelbvieh....
 

dun

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Jake":q8nrsznr said:
Still willow, it's the same thing. You can't say a black hereford isn't a hereford if you'll say a black gelbvieh is a gelbvieh....

But it's still a case of "so what's the point?". All that's been done is turn the hide black, it hasn't realy changed the characteristics significantly, if at all. By the time it can be registered/considered a Gelbvieh/Simmenthal/Branvieh/black Hereford about all that's left from the Angus side is color. It's back to single trait selection, and one that isn't relevant in the bargain.
I don't think it's going to be all that long (in the scheme of things 5-10 years isn't long) until black isn't the issue that it is today. As more and more cattle are marketed with tracability to the source, it will get back to the way it really should be. The individual animals value will be what is at issue, not the color of it's hide.
Of course my record as a clairvoyant has never been particularly good. 20 years ago I said that individually owned computers would never catch on and now the microwave has more "computing power" then even mainframe computers did then.

dun
 

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