Purebred Angus bulls without papers

[Bright Raven]

Raven wrote
"It does seem like everyone wants all of us to practice their breeding methods. Some seem to think if we don't use the practices they advocate, we are inferior."


This is what comes out of most discussions as mentioned above. I run Angus and Hereford/Brahman genetics. Do they work every where for everyone of course not. Do I think your cattle are crap again of course not. Why is it most registered breeders look at the commercial cattlemen with such disdain. That's the way it comes out.
I have played this game on both sides of the fence and never figured this one out.

Sir:

You are probably correct. But I just don't think seedstock
/registered/purebred breeders hold commercial cattle producers in disdain. Maybe some do. What I think leads to the personal "snootiness" is the disagreement over breeding practices.

 

[Caustic Burno]

Raven wrote
"It does seem like everyone wants all of us to practice their breeding methods. Some seem to think if we don't use the practices they advocate, we are inferior."


This is what comes out of most discussions as mentioned above. I run Angus and Hereford/Brahman genetics. Do they work every where for everyone of course not. Do I think your cattle are crap again of course not. Why is it most registered breeders look at the commercial cattlemen with such disdain. That's the way it comes out.
I have played this game on both sides of the fence and never figured this one out.

Sir:

You are probably correct. But I just don't think seedstock
/registered/purebred breeders hold commercial cattle producers in disdain. Maybe some do. What I think leads to the personal "snootiness" is the disagreement over breeding practices.

That has not been my experience.
I sold a lot of bulls over two decades.
I loved the commercial cattlemen he was my bread and butter not the other seedstock producers.

 

[Bright Raven]

Raven wrote
"It does seem like everyone wants all of us to practice their breeding methods. Some seem to think if we don't use the practices they advocate, we are inferior."


This is what comes out of most discussions as mentioned above. I run Angus and Hereford/Brahman genetics. Do they work every where for everyone of course not. Do I think your cattle are crap again of course not. Why is it most registered breeders look at the commercial cattlemen with such disdain. That's the way it comes out.
I have played this game on both sides of the fence and never figured this one out.

Sir:

You are probably correct. But I just don't think seedstock
/registered/purebred breeders hold commercial cattle producers in disdain. Maybe some do. What I think leads to the personal "snootiness" is the disagreement over breeding practices.

That has not been my experience.
I sold a lot of bulls over two decades.
I loved the commercial cattlemen he was my bread and butter not the other seedstock producers.

I am the same way. I keep in touch and enjoy feedback.

 

[Caustic Burno]

Raven in my way of thinking if I were an Angus breeder is to welcome the guy running the unpapered bull. He is already interested in the breed or he wouldn't be looking at the bull.
Might be the best he could do at the time. Help him find better genetics if it is selling a weaned bull calf to him to raise out or one that you have on your cull list. Just might be the best bovine that walked across his pasture.
Don't alienate him.

 

[Silver]

It is only my opinion, but I feel that a purebred breeder hasn't "made it" until the commercial guy is lining up for his product.

 

[Caustic Burno]

It is only my opinion, but I feel that a purebred breeder hasn't "made it" until the commercial guy is lining up for his product.

Your spot on.
When I first started most of these people were using crossbred or salebarn bulls.
I started selling 7 month old bull calves without papers that I didn't like for a 100 to 150 over salebarn. These weren't bad calves, I just held a high standard for what I papered.
These calves were some of the best genetics to ever walk in some of these pastures. Instead of culling to hamburger the next time the guy wanted a "real papered bull" because he saw the improvement in his calf crop. I sold my registered herd in 2011 I didn't survive the drought with enough to play and Father Time was kicking my butt. To this day I still get phone calls looking for bulls, the second question I get is who would you buy from.

 

[CattleMan1920]

Here we go again. A thread that is getting a ton of views because the hard things are being discussed, and some folks don't like what is being said.

I've basically been told on here that I am DOOMED in the Angus seed stock business because....oops I said things that could offend....oh my Lord....if I could only be delicate so as not to offend anyone then my business would flourish. Well that ain't gonna happen. I'm saying things that people don't like to hear. You know, go to the gym and hire a trainer, if you are fat they aren't going to tell you "hey, you are in GREAT shape, do two situps and let's take a break" That's how some are, but the one's that get you in shape are rough on you. Why would anyone get offended on here if they are doing well, and cutting the mustard? Why would anyone get offended when I say that the person who runs out of hay in early January and their cattle are starving is a result of poor planning. Why?

My vets office has a quote up behind the counter, I love it, and think about it often. I may not have it exact, but here goes "Improper planning on YOUR part does not constitute an emergency on MY part". The same can be said about one's cattle operation. We all go through some tough sh..t at times, those who emerge with the least scratches or wounds are the ones that planned better than others. Don't get mad about what I say regarding Kentucky cattle and producers here, I've actually taken it easy on them, and nothing I said is any different than most registered producers aren't already thinking and would like to say, but are afraid to, because they don't want to harm their business.

At the end of the day, you are either breeding really top cattle, you are working your way towards that goal, you are average, or you really suck. It's for you to judge honestly with yourself where you are on that scale, and of course the market will judge you as well. If you think a $2k registered Angus bull is great, good for you, but the market is sending you a message, and that message is "average" or "below average" It's true, don't get mad, I don't! I know a $3000 Angus bull is decent, but he surely isn't SAV America by a LONG SHOT!

We are in a time where everybody is so DELICATE about what it said, YET there seems to be a lot of people that like our current President who never holds back, EVER! I'm sure if you were to have any of the very top Angus breeders in the United States look over your cattle and give you an HONEST opinion of your herd, it would hurt, I know that if Kelly Schaff were to look over my herd, I would probably be in tears, but that constructive criticism and my drive to breed a better animal is GOOD FOR ME! I sure would not want a seedstock producer to say "you have a great herd, and oh by the way, you will love bull "XYZ" he would be perfect for you" That doesn't improve anything, it just makes a sale and everything stays status quo.

I'm in a unique position in the seed stock business. I don't have a business that if a harsh remark entered the public realm that it might damage my upcoming sale. I'm not having to carefully cultivate every comment in order to make sure my animals sell. I'm in a position where I can breed what I want, any way I want, and say whatever I want. The beauty of that situation, you still feel something when that new calf arrives, it's a rush. The business isn't a drag, something I can't stand to face everyday, because I'm trying to please everyone.

As I said in an earlier post, last night we had an SAV Elation 7899 daugher born, beautiful calf. Check out the sire's pedigree, it's pretty mindblowing

http://bit.ly/2tn8pCV

Anyway, I was out checking on her momma last night at 1:00 a.m. and it felt GOOD, not like a chore. I'm already thinking it might be an interesting match to breed her to SAV America 8018. I've never felt that excitement about calves out of Stone Gate Kingston. I know that this new calf has great opportunity ahead of her. Why does any of that matter? Here's why. No matter what someone thinks of me, how much of an azzhole they may consider me to be, it's about the animal at the end of the day. I've worked for some extreme azzholes in my earlier years, they were nearly unbearable to face each day, but they are the ones that moved me ahead, not the nice people, that I have mostly forgotten about. I've NEVER forgotten the jerks.

Lastly, for those of you that are highly confident in your $2k seedstock, please post some AAA registration numbers so we can all take a look at them. I have been VERY OPEN about posting registration numbers on my herd, I've not held back one bit, and if you have a winner, neither should you. Even you Ebenezer should post some AAA numbers for us all to see, unless you would rather not show what you are doing to improve the breed. C'mon Ebenezer, let's see your best effort to date! Don't tell us what you did in 1974, tell us what you are doing NOW!

 

[Caustic Burno]

We should bow down to you and TT

 

[CattleMan1920]

We should bow down to you and TT

Whatever suits you. If someone were to bow down to me, I would say "get up!"

I don't bow to anyone, but I will say this, if I meet someone that is doing things better than me, and I have, there is a high level respect because I know that I will most likely learn something from them, and I usually do.

 

[Red Bull Breeder]

If I was as knee deep in sav genetics as you are and Kelly Schaff made you cry I would rethink what I was doing. Only numbers that count is what the scales say and the amount of dollars left in your pocket at the year end.

 

[NEFarmwife]

Not for sale but here's my favorite young bull. His numbers hit darn near every mark.
Reg # 19099219

You can follow Dodds Cattle on FB if you'd like to see our commercial bulls that'll average over 2k.

 

[NEFarmwife]

Not for sale but here's my favorite young bull. His numbers hit darn near every mark.
Reg # 19099219 he is collected on and we'll AI him to a good majority of our commercials. I want him bred to a few of our PB also.

You can check out Dodds Cattle on FB if you'd like to see our commercial bulls that'll average over 2k. Hopefully. Have always in the past but I think it's going to be a tough season for a lot of cattlemen.

Quoted self to add to post rather than edit.

 

[TennesseeTuxedo]

We should bow down to you and TT

I never claimed to be a breeder.

Carry on.

 

[haase]

I always enjoyed picking out bulls, never had a hard time getting a decent bull in the 2500 to 3500 dollar range, the part I enjoyed the most was going to their place and looking at their off springs, always worked with places that were interested in the buyers need and for me that was calves that would grow without alot of help, when we had limos, always liked wulfs, and spring creek cattle, when we had Herefords always liked Perks ranch.

 

[jehosofat]

Branded, I'm just a small commercial guy, I have two decent bulls, and am in the market for a jam up black bull. If you offered me the best bull on your place for 1500 bucks, I probably wouldn't let you hold 1500 dollars of my money. I might have paid you 5K for a good one before reading your stuff for the last month.
You might raise good bulls, but if you're on here trying to sell bulls, I'm letting you know that you're a sheitty salesman.

 

[CattleMan1920]

Branded, I'm just a small commercial guy, I have two decent bulls, and am in the market for a jam up black bull. If you offered me the best bull on your place for 1500 bucks, I probably wouldn't let you hold 1500 dollars of my money. I might have paid you 5K for a good one before reading your stuff for the last month.
You might raise good bulls, but if you're on here trying to sell bulls, I'm letting you know that you're a sheitty salesman.

I'm not here to win a popularity contest. If you are buying s bull because you think the breeder is "friendly" then you need help.

I know lots of really friendly people in my area, but I would take my operation off a cliff if I used any of their bulls.

I wouldn't care how sh..ty one's personality or sales skills were if the animals they offer were top notch.

If SAV told me to go f myself but would still send me 20 straws of America on Monday, it would phase me at all. I would say "thank you" and consider myself lucky.

Some of the best people that I've had do specialized work for me on the farm, plumbing etc, were grumpy and difficult to deal with, I always called them back for more work because they did a great job. Some of the "friendlier" people did lousy work, but they sure were pleasant to be around.

 

[callmefence]

Here we go again. A thread that is getting a ton of views because the hard things are being discussed, and some folks don't like what is being said.

I've basically been told on here that I am DOOMED in the Angus seed stock business because....oops I said things that could offend....oh my Lord....if I could only be delicate so as not to offend anyone then my business would flourish. Well that ain't gonna happen. I'm saying things that people don't like to hear. You know, go to the gym and hire a trainer, if you are fat they aren't going to tell you "hey, you are in GREAT shape, do two situps and let's take a break" That's how some are, but the one's that get you in shape are rough on you. Why would anyone get offended on here if they are doing well, and cutting the mustard? Why would anyone get offended when I say that the person who runs out of hay in early January and their cattle are starving is a result of poor planning. Why?

My vets office has a quote up behind the counter, I love it, and think about it often. I may not have it exact, but here goes "Improper planning on YOUR part does not constitute an emergency on MY part". The same can be said about one's cattle operation. We all go through some tough sh..t at times, those who emerge with the least scratches or wounds are the ones that planned better than others. Don't get mad about what I say regarding Kentucky cattle and producers here, I've actually taken it easy on them, and nothing I said is any different than most registered producers aren't already thinking and would like to say, but are afraid to, because they don't want to harm their business.

At the end of the day, you are either breeding really top cattle, you are working your way towards that goal, you are average, or you really suck. It's for you to judge honestly with yourself where you are on that scale, and of course the market will judge you as well. If you think a $2k registered Angus bull is great, good for you, but the market is sending you a message, and that message is "average" or "below average" It's true, don't get mad, I don't! I know a $3000 Angus bull is decent, but he surely isn't SAV America by a LONG SHOT!

We are in a time where everybody is so DELICATE about what it said, YET there seems to be a lot of people that like our current President who never holds back, EVER! I'm sure if you were to have any of the very top Angus breeders in the United States look over your cattle and give you an HONEST opinion of your herd, it would hurt, I know that if Kelly Schaff were to look over my herd, I would probably be in tears, but that constructive criticism and my drive to breed a better animal is GOOD FOR ME! I sure would not want a seedstock producer to say "you have a great herd, and oh by the way, you will love bull "XYZ" he would be perfect for you" That doesn't improve anything, it just makes a sale and everything stays status quo.

I'm in a unique position in the seed stock business. I don't have a business that if a harsh remark entered the public realm that it might damage my upcoming sale. I'm not having to carefully cultivate every comment in order to make sure my animals sell. I'm in a position where I can breed what I want, any way I want, and say whatever I want. The beauty of that situation, you still feel something when that new calf arrives, it's a rush. The business isn't a drag, something I can't stand to face everyday, because I'm trying to please everyone.

As I said in an earlier post, last night we had an SAV Elation 7899 daugher born, beautiful calf. Check out the sire's pedigree, it's pretty mindblowing

http://bit.ly/2tn8pCV

Anyway, I was out checking on her momma last night at 1:00 a.m. and it felt GOOD, not like a chore. I'm already thinking it might be an interesting match to breed her to SAV America 8018. I've never felt that excitement about calves out of Stone Gate Kingston. I know that this new calf has great opportunity ahead of her. Why does any of that matter? Here's why. No matter what someone thinks of me, how much of an azzhole they may consider me to be, it's about the animal at the end of the day. I've worked for some extreme azzholes in my earlier years, they were nearly unbearable to face each day, but they are the ones that moved me ahead, not the nice people, that I have mostly forgotten about. I've NEVER forgotten the jerks.

Lastly, for those of you that are highly confident in your $2k seedstock, please post some AAA registration numbers so we can all take a look at them. I have been VERY OPEN about posting registration numbers on my herd, I've not held back one bit, and if you have a winner, neither should you. Even you Ebenezer should post some AAA numbers for us all to see, unless you would rather not show what you are doing to improve the breed. C'mon Ebenezer, let's see your best effort to date! Don't tell us what you did in 1974, tell us what you are doing NOW!

Seriously you consider everyone delicate when you in your short time here hold the record for taking your ball and running home.
I guess you heal pretty quick. But you take the cake as far as being delicate.

 

[Nesikep]

There are many divides... Commercial and "hobby", Commercial and seedstock, big vs small operations, big vs small cattle, AI vs bull, black vs red, etc

While it's certainly nice to be able to pick an semen from a million dollar AI bull that will improve certain features of a cow, it's no less of a feat to find an affordable walking bull that will improve the herd as a whole.

Someone here was going to visit the Lents herd.. who was that? From what I saw on youtube which may not be representative of the whole herd, I would NEVER buy a bull or semen from them at any price with the udders those cows had.
I also saw some pictures posted by someone (can't remember who) where they had two good animals in it out of 6.. 4 were totally hatchet arsed despite being presumably well fed.
Then there are others that are good cattle, but just not what I strive for.. nothing wrong with that. I love Backbone ranch's cows, and here's a pic of a beauty of a shorthorn cow I'd be proud of having in my pasture

 

[ohiosteve]

Here we go again. A thread that is getting a ton of views because the hard things are being discussed, and some folks don't like what is being said.

I've basically been told on here that I am DOOMED in the Angus seed stock business because....oops I said things that could offend....oh my Lord....if I could only be delicate so as not to offend anyone then my business would flourish. Well that ain't gonna happen. I'm saying things that people don't like to hear. You know, go to the gym and hire a trainer, if you are fat they aren't going to tell you "hey, you are in GREAT shape, do two situps and let's take a break" That's how some are, but the one's that get you in shape are rough on you. Why would anyone get offended on here if they are doing well, and cutting the mustard? Why would anyone get offended when I say that the person who runs out of hay in early January and their cattle are starving is a result of poor planning. Why?

My vets office has a quote up behind the counter, I love it, and think about it often. I may not have it exact, but here goes "Improper planning on YOUR part does not constitute an emergency on MY part". The same can be said about one's cattle operation. We all go through some tough sh..t at times, those who emerge with the least scratches or wounds are the ones that planned better than others. Don't get mad about what I say regarding Kentucky cattle and producers here, I've actually taken it easy on them, and nothing I said is any different than most registered producers aren't already thinking and would like to say, but are afraid to, because they don't want to harm their business.

At the end of the day, you are either breeding really top cattle, you are working your way towards that goal, you are average, or you really suck. It's for you to judge honestly with yourself where you are on that scale, and of course the market will judge you as well. If you think a $2k registered Angus bull is great, good for you, but the market is sending you a message, and that message is "average" or "below average" It's true, don't get mad, I don't! I know a $3000 Angus bull is decent, but he surely isn't SAV America by a LONG SHOT!

We are in a time where everybody is so DELICATE about what it said, YET there seems to be a lot of people that like our current President who never holds back, EVER! I'm sure if you were to have any of the very top Angus breeders in the United States look over your cattle and give you an HONEST opinion of your herd, it would hurt, I know that if Kelly Schaff were to look over my herd, I would probably be in tears, but that constructive criticism and my drive to breed a better animal is GOOD FOR ME! I sure would not want a seedstock producer to say "you have a great herd, and oh by the way, you will love bull "XYZ" he would be perfect for you" That doesn't improve anything, it just makes a sale and everything stays status quo.

I'm in a unique position in the seed stock business. I don't have a business that if a harsh remark entered the public realm that it might damage my upcoming sale. I'm not having to carefully cultivate every comment in order to make sure my animals sell. I'm in a position where I can breed what I want, any way I want, and say whatever I want. The beauty of that situation, you still feel something when that new calf arrives, it's a rush. The business isn't a drag, something I can't stand to face everyday, because I'm trying to please everyone.

As I said in an earlier post, last night we had an SAV Elation 7899 daugher born, beautiful calf. Check out the sire's pedigree, it's pretty mindblowing

http://bit.ly/2tn8pCV

Anyway, I was out checking on her momma last night at 1:00 a.m. and it felt GOOD, not like a chore. I'm already thinking it might be an interesting match to breed her to SAV America 8018. I've never felt that excitement about calves out of Stone Gate Kingston. I know that this new calf has great opportunity ahead of her. Why does any of that matter? Here's why. No matter what someone thinks of me, how much of an azzhole they may consider me to be, it's about the animal at the end of the day. I've worked for some extreme azzholes in my earlier years, they were nearly unbearable to face each day, but they are the ones that moved me ahead, not the nice people, that I have mostly forgotten about. I've NEVER forgotten the jerks.

Lastly, for those of you that are highly confident in your $2k seedstock, please post some AAA registration numbers so we can all take a look at them. I have been VERY OPEN about posting registration numbers on my herd, I've not held back one bit, and if you have a winner, neither should you. Even you Ebenezer should post some AAA numbers for us all to see, unless you would rather not show what you are doing to improve the breed. C'mon Ebenezer, let's see your best effort to date! Don't tell us what you did in 1974, tell us what you are doing NOW!

Seriously you consider everyone delicate when you in your short time here hold the record for taking your ball and running home.
I guess you heal pretty quick. But you take the cake as far as being delicate.

....and condescending.

 

[Ebenezer]

1964, 1974, 1984, 1994, 2004, 2014, 2019, ... cattle
I am not attempting to be polarizing. I am not selling here nor am I a multiplier with visions of grandeur due to a coattail effect and constant name dropping. I am happy with what I do and where I do it. I was gone over the years but I did not come home with an ego to show the stupid yokels and the lesser regarded relatives how a big boy breeds cows. Environmental fit is a key. Service to clients is a key. Profit is a key. Sales minus costs = net. The huge bonus is the friends gained along the way. I am happy.

Issue a mindless challenge: ring the bell, the dog eats. Sorry, not me. Find a stooge to reply.