Problems Per Head?

[kaneranch]

How many calving problems/ s of calves should you facture in with ten head?

 

[msscamp]

I don't mean to be sarcastic or belittling here, but that depends on the heifers and bull. Age and size of heifers, size of calf bull throws, etc, etc, etc. Maybe none, maybe all of them. A little more information would be helpful.

 

[shorty]

Hope that you don't have any problems but be ready in case you do. There's no way you can predict what's going to happen.

 

[Crowderfarms]

Hopefully, you wont have any. But always expect the un-expected. I know folks that have had 8-9 head and had train wrecks, and folks that have 100+ head and have had no problems, or very few. Msscamp stated it well. So did Shorty...

 

[jerry27150]

i agree, it is like a throw of the dice each year. witer weather also plays a role

 

[jerry27150]

winter weather

 

[preston39]

jerry,
I also thought winter weather may play a roll in calving ease. The rationale for many who want fall calves. But, if attention is given to the expecting cows with additional dry feed and good hay,etc.,maintaing condition don't you think that can be adequately overcome? Or do you think there is an unknown factor with bad winter weather?

 

[kaneranch]

Here is my thinking (tell me if I'm wrong) I like to have spring calves beacause of the weather. We have pretty harsh winters and usually pretty mild springs. If I had my calves in the spring there is a less likely chance that they are going to die and they are going to gain better on less grain. True?

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

Here is my thinking (tell me if I'm wrong) I like to have fall calves beacause of the weather. We have pretty harsh winters and usually pretty mild springs. If I had my calves in the spring there is a less likely chance that they are going to die and they are going to gain better on less grain. True?

Maybe I'm reading this wrong - but you are saying you like fall calvers - than you say spring is better.

Anyway, winter is a known factor in birth weights. The colder/harsher the winter - the larger the calves - the larger the calves - the more POTENTIAL calving difficulties.

I always have a few fall calvers, and I expect them to be larger than normal because of the great lush grass that they eat all summer long. Than you have to make sure the cow has great feed during the winter to milk well enough to raise the calf & breed back. We feed baleage, so it's not a problem for us - no grain.

My winter/spring calvers always have, on average, heavier calves the later the calving date. In other words, the less winter they have gone thru by the time they calve, the smaller the calves compared to my tail enders. None receive grain - but again, I have good hay.

 

[kaneranch]

Sorry about the typeo I meant spring

 

[preston39]

Here is my thinking (tell me if I'm wrong) I like to have fall calves beacause of the weather. We have pretty harsh winters and usually pretty mild springs. If I had my calves in the spring there is a less likely chance that they are going to die and they are going to gain better on less grain. True?

Maybe I'm reading this wrong - but you are saying you like fall calvers - than you say spring is better.

Anyway, winter is a known factor in birth weights. The colder/harsher the winter - the larger the calves - the larger the calves - the more POTENTIAL calving difficulties.

I always have a few fall calvers, and I expect them to be larger than normal because of the great lush grass that they eat all summer long. Than you have to make sure the cow has great feed during the winter to milk well enough to raise the calf & breed back. We feed baleage, so it's not a problem for us - no grain.

My winter/spring calvers always have, on average, heavier calves the later the calving date. In other words, the less winter they have gone thru by the time they calve, the smaller the calves compared to my tail enders. None receive grain - but again, I have good hay.

=======

Jeanne,

Your opinion suggest that your hay is more nutritional than your summer pasture...since you feed no dry grain. Is that a fair conclusion of your remarks?

..."winter is a known factor in birth weights. The colder/harsher the winter - the larger the calves - the larger the calves - the more POTENTIAL calving difficulties".

I have heard this but, never seen a study. Do you have a reference for review? I have seen a study which suggest calf size is related too to much grain being fed in the cold months....but haven't seen anything which suggests straight hay produces the same condition.

 

[Salicylic]

I believe the larger calves in the spring due to the cold winter has to do with the cows circulation, cold temps require more blood flow to the internal organs to keep them warm and as a byproduct of the additional blood more nutrition is available to the developing calf. Warm to hot weather less blood is needed to keep the internal organs warm hence smaller calves.

 

[Bama]

I believe the larger calves in the spring due to the cold winter has to do with the cows circulation, cold temps require more blood flow to the internal organs to keep them warm and as a byproduct of the additional blood more nutrition is available to the developing calf. Warm to hot weather less blood is needed to keep the internal organs warm hence smaller calves.

Interesting point. It sounds logical.

 

[preston39]

Salicylic,

It sure does sound logical and produces a curious inquiry which is this; isn't part of the body's cooling process in the hot sun... circulation increase also..... to cool? What would be the difference?
Your thoughts?

 

[jerry27150]

preston, there have been studies done on this. they have taken half of one herd north for winter & kept half in warmer climate for spring calving. ones in north have bigger calves. just type in (dystocia in cattle) & you can find a lot

 

[Salicylic]

Salicylic,

It sure does sound logical and produces a curious inquiry which is this; isn't part of the body's cooling process in the hot sun... circulation increase also..... to cool? What would be the difference?
Your thoughts?

BeefTalk: Are Seasonal Effects on Birth Weight Real?

By Kris Ringwall, Beef Specialist
NDSU Extension Service

Birth weight is always a topic of discussion. At breeding time, calving time and at other opportune moments within the daily passing of the cattle business, birth weight discussions will consume time.

Recently a producer asked, "Does a calf's birth weight depend on the season of birth?" The answer is not simple. Research has shown that several factors are known to affect calf birth weight so, to keep the answer straightforward, a general principle does exist in all living things. As the external temperature increases, the body shifts the flow of blood to the surface to allow for more cooling. When the temperature gets cooler, blood flow tends to move to the body's core to conserve heat.

Mammals, such as beef cows, must maintain a constant body temperature, so changing blood flow is an excellent way to achieve it. One side effect, generally nominal in the normal variant of environmental temperatures, is a tendency to produce heavier birth weights when the temperature is cold and lighter birth weights when the temperature is hot.

In reviewing calf records for herds involved with the North Dakota Beef Cattle Improvement Association, this trend is small, but is still evident within the data. James Clement, veterinarian from Mandan and Chip Poland, livestock specialist working at the Dickinson Research Extension Center, split the NDBCIA data into two calving seasons. The late winter calving herds started calving February 13, with a mean calving date of March 7 and the spring herds started calving March 12, with a mean calving date of April 5.

The late winter calves weighed almost 90 pounds at birth and the spring calves averaged just over 86 pounds at birth. So, the tendency for heavier calves is there and if one reviews other data, similar effects can be found. Data from the southern United States is similar. Data from Glenn Selk and David Buchanan at Oklahoma State University showed fall calving cows delivered smaller birth weight calves (just under 78 pounds) than did spring calving cows (just over 82 pounds).

Without an extensive literature review to fill-in the appropriate decimal places, examples of heavier calves in the winter versus spring, and lighter calves in the spring versus fall can be found. Does the three to four pound variance in birth weight across seasons in these two examples impact management? Yes, it does. To what degree is really unknown.

At least in the North Dakota data, the average birth weight across the six years was of a similar magnitude. The heaviest year averaged 89.5 pounds and the lightest year 85.4 pounds, just over a 4-pound spread. Many table discussions have been held, with the end result, "the calves seem heavier this year," a true statement. However, the real reason for such a statement, still makes for good debate, with no referee to wave the checkered flag.

The answer to the question "does this seasonal variation change how a producer selects bulls?" rests in the utilization of breed association Expected Progeny Differences (EPDs), both for calving ease and birth weight. The breed associations go to great lengths to adjust the EPD values of bulls to enable producers to make the most accurate selections available.

As most producers sit and select yearling bulls, producers can't help but glance over the printed actual birth weight. However, it is still important for producers to keep in mind that the unadjusted birth weight has huge environmental effects including season of birth, age of dam, year of birth, region of birth and other factors common to the problems of selecting bulls.

http://www.ext.nodak.edu/extnews/newsre ... beefta.htm

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

=======

Jeanne,

Your opinion suggest that your hay is more nutritional than your summer pasture...since you feed no dry grain. Is that a fair conclusion of your remarks?

..."winter is a known factor in birth weights. The colder/harsher the winter - the larger the calves - the larger the calves - the more POTENTIAL calving difficulties".

I have heard this but, never seen a study. Do you have a reference for review? I have seen a study which suggest calf size is related too to much grain being fed in the cold months....but haven't seen anything which suggests straight hay produces the same condition.

I'm not sure what a said to make you think that, but NO, my grass is better than my hay. Just meant my hay is really good.
The feed issue on calf size & the cold weather are two different issues.
As Jerry said in his post. There has been several studies with the same cattle calving in cold climate & than warm climates. Same result - cold = heavier birth weights. So the more harsh/cold weather we have, the heavier our birth weights are. And I find, that the cows that carry longest (latest calvers) on average, have heavier birth weights. It does not cause a problem for us because our cows can handle big calves, just eliminates bull calves being kept as bulls. We castrate heavy birth weights.
Can't put my finger on any articles, but I have reprinted several in my newsletters.

 

[tapeworm]

How many calving problems/ s of calves should you facture in with ten head?

10 head of what?? NONE with 10 steers. LOL Actually NONE with anything if it is a real worry for you...there are to many options for you to use where you wont have to worry. Many CE bulls to choose from..or else go with a good black LH.

 

[preston39]

Salicylic,

Thanks for the info..had not seen it. Interesting!

No doubt 4-5 pounds could be a factor ...in some close calving ease situations.