potential bull???

[cypressfarms]

Hi All,
Some of you may have seen my post of big red and her new bull calf, Fred.

My question is, and it's a stretch: Could said Fred be a viable commercial bull?

He's 1/2 angus, 1/2 beefmaster.

I know I run the risk of having a un-uniform calf crop, but most of what I have are brangus cows.

Crazy, I know, but I'm thinking 2 years down the road that Fred might turn out.

Any people have serious disagreements with this???

I will post pic's of him as he grows, to help determine if it looks like he has potential. Down side: no EPDS.

 

[Brandonm2]

I am assuming that Fred is half Angus/ half RED Beefmaster, so you know he is heterozygous for color from the start. Having not seen him I can't say that he won't work; but why go through all the hassle of raising a bull? If he weans off at 700 pounds, you will have to have or build a pen or pasture for him so you can feed him without feeding the whole cow herd or your current bull for ~7 months while you take him to 1200++ pounds. To me raising a bull is as much hassle as raising 5 or 6 bulls and with one there is no payday at the end of feeding him out. Ideally you should raise your heifers seperately from your cows and have another paddock for your bull when not in use and now you want ANOTHER paddock to raise bulls in. I am old school. I like to let the other dude have to grow out the bulls, then I go to his place and pick them apart after he has been babying them for 16-24 months. You can usually buy a bull for little more than the cost of raising your own (when you factor in the lost $700 payday by not selling the calf at weaning) and there is the risk that your Fred will not grow out well. Remember the hatchet as*ed bull? Somebody who sells bulls for a living has to run those duds to the sellbarn and hope they bring more than the bologna bulls before his buyers see him and run back to the coffee-house telling tales. When you add in the lack of predictability in a crossbred bull, I don't see how you make money on this deal. If you want a pet, steer him and let him die on the place after 20 years. If you want a bull, let 20 other guys raise them then pick out the best one you can find at a price you can live with.

 

[cypressfarms]

Fair enough Brandonm2,

But, I still can't wait to see what he looks like at 7 months.

He's black with some white under his belly and under his throat. His mom is red, dad is black.

 

[Texan]

Just to refresh your memory......

Now, you seem to be sure she's a Beefmaster. A few weeks ago, you didn't know what she was:

I'm not 100% sure that she's beefmaster, she's not registered, and I bought her at a sale barn. My guess is that she's beefmaster, but there could be some other blood in there.

And what about this performance? This is all you know about performance to weaning on the dam's side:

We bought her in Feb 2003, and she weighed #350 lbs. I got laughed at by everyone! So small. So ugly. So everything bad.

I don't really know how old she was when I got her. My guess was 4-5 months. I bought her from a stockyard because my daughter liked her.

Now, let's summarize:

You bought a 4 to 5 month old calf from a salebarn that only weighed 350 pounds. Breeding is really unknown, just appears to be some Beefmaster---already a composite. All you had to do was breed her to an Angus bull, throwing one more breed into the mix, and now she's producing herd sire prospects?

 

[Caustic Burno]

Holy crap one old commercial cow has a broad ass calf now he is a herd bull prospect. I say go for it people like you that haul those calfs to the barn just make my quality calfs along with the other cattlemen's at the barn bring more. I guess you could bring a roll of toliet paper with you and tell everyone about your papered bull at the sale barn.

 

[cypressfarms]

Texan,

Correct, correct, and er correct, on all accounts. No I am not certain that the dam is 100% beefmaster. No need to refresh my memory, she doesn't have papers, so there is no certainty that she's 100%. She appears to be, but no guarantee. The sire is a registered angus, who has sons (angus plus') working well.

"My question is, and it's a stretch: Could said Fred be a viable commercial bull?"

I'm not trying to make big red out as some herd siring prospect. Please note the "and it's a stretch" quote I mentioned before.

The main argument against Fred is the time it will take him to mature, assuming that he develops as a sire should. Following Brandons suggestions, I believe it makes more sense to buy a mature bull instead of raising from a calf. I'm a realist. I'm the one who called a bull I have hatchet a**ed.

I do like the angus/beefmaster cross, always have. I can't help but think that this cross would make a good sire.

 

[Crowderfarms]

Send ol' Fred to the Sale Barn. Start out with something quality, something that will produce top notch Calves. One that will eliminate all the hoping and guess work.Until the day you do it, you are going to be spinning your wheels in Cow manure.The laws of probability are against you until you put a good Herd bull to work for you. You'll thank yourself in the end.

 

[cypressfarms]

Fred's future is by no means a done deal. Hell, he's a week old. The reason I bring it up is get to the question; when do you know you have a good bull prospect? I don't care if a bull calf has the best genetics in the world, it doesn't mean that he'll be a good sire. Yes, apples don't fall too far from the tree, so if you have a proven good bull, his progeny should be o.k. But the should is a key point. At some point everyone must look at a bull calf and decide whether they feel that the bull has what it takes.

I breed Arabian horses (small time), and I'm a firm believer that 90% of the stud colts born should be gelded. This is only for the betterment of the breed. The same can be said for cattle, but I might up that 90% some.

As conservative as I am, I will likely continue buying angus and brangus bulls to be sires, and still be picky at that. At some point in time, however, you have to wonder about the possibilities of a "fred" or any other bull. WONDER is the key phrase. The good thing about the winter is that it gives a person time to think about things. Or maybe that's the bad thing about winter ;-)

 

[la4angus]

"My question is, and it's a stretch: Could said Fred be a viable commercial bull?"

Possible but highly improbablle.

 

[Campground Cattle]

Fred's future is by no means a done deal. Hell, he's a week old. The reason I bring it up is get to the question; when do you know you have a good bull prospect? I don't care if a bull calf has the best genetics in the world, it doesn't mean that he'll be a good sire. Yes, apples don't fall too far from the tree, so if you have a proven good bull, his progeny should be o.k. But the should is a key point. At some point everyone must look at a bull calf and decide whether they feel that the bull has what it takes.

I breed Arabian horses (small time), and I'm a firm believer that 90% of the stud colts born should be gelded. This is only for the betterment of the breed. The same can be said for cattle, but I might up that 90% some.

As conservative as I am, I will likely continue buying angus and brangus bulls to be sires, and still be picky at that. At some point in time, however, you have to wonder about the possibilities of a "fred" or any other bull. WONDER is the key phrase. The good thing about the winter is that it gives a person time to think about things. Or maybe that's the bad thing about winter ;-)

Ok Cypress from a guy that sells a few bulls I see Fred as a loser no offence intended. Fred the herd bull will be 1/2 Angus 1/2 beefmaster you think which is a three way cross or more.
I think you will be very dissapointed come sell time there are so many genetics here a uniform set of calfs would be impossible.

 

[George]

No.Just castrate him,and you will have a nice steer calf,to sell next year.

 

[Beef11]

Leave poor fred alone.
its not his fault. I raised 2 bulls all by my lonesome they turned out good except one who i nutted. The other was a heck of alot better than most of the local purebred breeders who have the attitude that if it is papered and has testicles it is a herdsire i dont care who his parents are if he is a dink cut him. If you have a hybrid bull his phenotype is going to be more misleading than a purebred bull about the genotype carried by our little nutted friend. Heterosis will be manifest is the hybrid which will make him look better but he may not be packing the genes you want out of the deal. On the upside your hybrid bull should be very fertile and have a bit more libido. I personally wouldnt be very quick about using him for a bull unless you definetly wont keep heifers out of him being how that is a quick way to mongrelize your herd.

good luck

 

[DOC HARRIS]

Hi All,
Some of you may have seen my post of big red and her new bull calf, Fred.

My question is, and it's a stretch: Could said Fred be a viable commercial bull?

He's 1/2 angus, 1/2 beefmaster.

I know I run the risk of having a un-uniform calf crop, but most of what I have are brangus cows.

Crazy, I know, but I'm thinking 2 years down the road that Fred might turn out.

Any people have serious disagreements with this???

I will post pic's of him as he grows, to help determine if it looks like he has potential. Down side: no EPDS.

cypressfarms-Taking EVERYTHING you have been exposed to since you came on this Forum into consideration, and putting all the information you have read and thought about - here is a short, concise, reasonable answer to your question: NO!

Now - - go back and read several of the posts in answer to your question again. Then read them again. Then answer your own question yourself. One of the advantages to these forum posts is the availability of answers to PROBLEMS with which everyone is confronted in their breeding experiences. YOUR responsibility is to avail yourself of that knowledge for YOUR benefit. It's just like school. Study and learn - study and learn!

DOC HARRIS

 

[cypressfarms]

One of the advantages to these forum posts is the availability of answers to PROBLEMS with which everyone is confronted in their breeding experiences. YOUR responsibility is to avail yourself of that knowledge for YOUR benefit.
DOC HARRIS

Point taken DOC.

We've always taken the "safe" way and used mostly angus bulls, and some brangus as well. I don't see that changing any time in the near future; too much potential loss as stake (we know what we get with good angus and brangus bulls) as the uncertainty of bring in a half breed bull. At some point I guess everyone wonders about options like fred. After those few seconds, they realize that it's much more sensible to go with what's proven itself over time.

I wanted to see if I could stir up some comments, but whew, this was more than I expected.

 

[ALACOWMAN]

IF i were to consider using a cross bred bull it wouldnt be a beefmaster cross maybe a pure bred but not crossed. all of your heterosis is pretty much washed out with a bull like that on a third cross you talking about mongrals that would bring on a whole new meaning :hat: