Pot Bellied Bottle Calves

[rocfarm]

Early weaned calves are not necessarily that much smaller. I have dairies that have very good sized heifers at 2 calving into the herds. It is lack of PROPER nutrition early on that will affect them..... if they are consuming a good BALANCE of nutrition, with no other obvious problems, they will grow. 99.999% of all dairy replacements are raised in hutches or some sort of "artificial" way... not on a cow. Being a "good mother" is not a quality most dairies look for....
I have raised many beef heifers on bottles, and found no increased lack of maternal instincts in them... but I have found that they are more likely to be LESS stressed by my presence around their new calves, and less likely to want to "kill me" if I want to tag or check their brand new baby. That is worth it to me to not have to worry quite as much that she sees me as a threat.... I like protective new momma's... but I want them to hear my voice and not see me as a threat in the same way they would see a strange dog or coyote or other predator.....

Interesting. As I'm not around mine very often, I want them to to be a bit protective. Got two packs of coyotes on my place that could be a problem if the mothers are not ready to do some stompin'. But agree that over protective mothers are not too fun.

 

[Warren Allison]

Early weaned calves are not necessarily that much smaller. I have dairies that have very good sized heifers at 2 calving into the herds. It is lack of PROPER nutrition early on that will affect them..... if they are consuming a good BALANCE of nutrition, with no other obvious problems, they will grow. 99.999% of all dairy replacements are raised in hutches or some sort of "artificial" way... not on a cow. Being a "good mother" is not a quality most dairies look for....
I have raised many beef heifers on bottles, and found no increased lack of maternal instincts in them... but I have found that they are more likely to be LESS stressed by my presence around their new calves, and less likely to want to "kill me" if I want to tag or check their brand new baby. That is worth it to me to not have to worry quite as much that she sees me as a threat.... I like protective new momma's... but I want them to hear my voice and not see me as a threat in the same way they would see a strange dog or coyote or other predator.....

That is true, Jan. I have fooled with Corrientes and Corr crosses for event cattle since the 80;s Typically we'd wean the calves in 2-3 months to use for calf roping. When they got bigger, they's move to team roping and steer wrestling. I have had Coors that i just used exclusively to raise Corrs and those were weaned normally... in 6 mos or more. By 2 years old, there would be little difference in the size of the two.
Starting in the 90's, I bred corrs to Angus or Brangus bulls, to get team sorting/team penning cattle. You want those to be polled and uniform in color. A lot of these were waned early to use for calf roping before they were used for penning/sorting. Same thing..as long yearlings to 2 yrs old, they;d be the same size as crosses that were weaned at 6 months or more.

Now, those 2-3 months old calves used for roping, were fed on calf manna and high-protein alfalfa hay.

 

[jruppe89]

Well I bought a protein tub probably well over a month ago now…they have no interest in it. They licked on it the first day or so and just never looked at it again. It was the cooked tub so definitely stiff as a board, that may be the problem . So I started them on a grower feed, one that I read good reviews on and that I could actually get my hands on…NutreBeef. I'm pretty discouraged at this point because the oldest looks like a pregnant cow and they have hardly any muscle mass. They look sickly to me. They've been wormed so I can't imagine that would be the problem. They had the Cydectin poured on in July for mites…per FIL.

 

[Travlr]

Well I bought a protein tub probably well over a month ago now…they have no interest in it. They licked on it the first day or so and just never looked at it again. It was the cooked tub so definitely stiff as a board, that may be the problem . So I started them on a grower feed, one that I read good reviews on and that I could actually get my hands on…NutreBeef. I'm pretty discouraged at this point because the oldest looks like a pregnant cow and they have hardly any muscle mass. They look sickly to me. They've been wormed so I can't imagine that would be the problem. They had the Cydectin poured on in July for mites…per FIL.

Side shots would tell us more... but from what I can see the calves do look skinny. But they're dairy cross, right? Dairy calves always look too skinny.

I'm no orphan/bottle calf expert, but... ruminants don't just digest grass/grain. They ferment what they ingest. They cultivate huge volumes of bacteria and digest those bacteria which gives them the protein they need to develop, to grow. Young calves get their healthy gut biome from oral transfer as adults lick them. They also cultivate a gut biome over time. Chewing cud is part of the fermentation process. Do your calves chew cud when they are laying down and relaxed?

Just some thoughts. Best wishes...

 

[aprille218]

Try the Safeguard dewormer pellets for them. How much grain are they getting daily?

 

[jruppe89]

Side shots would tell us more... but from what I can see the calves do look skinny. But they're dairy cross, right? Dairy calves always look too skinny.

I'm no orphan/bottle calf expert, but... ruminants don't just digest grass/grain. They ferment what they ingest. They cultivate huge volumes of bacteria and digest those bacteria which gives them the protein they need to develop, to grow. Young calves get their healthy gut biome from oral transfer as adults lick them. They also cultivate a gut biome over time. Chewing cud is part of the fermentation process. Do your calves chew cud when they are laying down and relaxed?

Just some thoughts. Best wishes...

No just Angus…as far as I know! I mean they could have dairy in them, some of our angus have that look. But they do chew cud.

 

[jruppe89]

See from the side they don't look that bad lol. It's when I'm looking from the front, they look like they should have wide load slapped on their hindquarters

 

[wbvs58]

What has their weight gain been like? You might consider testing them for BVD/PI (antigen).

Ken

 

[Buck Randall]

Once calves get that unthrifty/potbellied look, it takes a long time for them to grow out of it. Their bellies aren't going to shrink, they'll need to grow to catch up. You're looking at slow progress over a few months of feeding to get where you want them to be.

 

[jruppe89]

What has their weight gain been like? You might consider testing them for BVD/PI (antigen).

Ken

 

[jruppe89]

To me they look like they have gained, but a lot is in the belly. I couldn't tell you their actual weight. In every other aspect they seem healthy, just slowing down this time of year like the rest of the herd and gorging themselves on hay

 

[jruppe89]

These are the only recent side views I have of them.

 

[birdog]

Thanks for answering my questions. 3 months is old enough to wean if they are eating 2-3% of their body weight in grain. I am not going to argue the point with your f-i-l..... but they are not going to get enough protein and nutrition on just grass and a "little grain" at that age to grow properly... without their momma's milk... like his beef cattle do. The concentrated nutrition in the milk a cow produces , plus what the calf learns to eat, goes a long way to getting them to the 4-600 lbs they are when they are weaned completely. NATURE BALANCES it out when allowed to have a "natural" calf growing up.
Since his cows abandoned these calves, what you were doing is actually becoming their momma... and the milk replacer is sufficient to get them a good start. The grain is a cheaper alternative to the milk that you are no longer feeding them. I would maybe try to give them a little more GOOD quality hay and keep them off grass for a few hours... and I would NOT skimp on their grain.
I know that grain costs have also skyrocketed. But if you are planning to sell them, there is nothing worse than a pot bellied looking, scrawny mal-nourished calf. And it will kill you price wise and then all this time and work will be for nothing.
I think that the pot belly look is from them trying to eat as much as they can to "feed" their bodies and their rumen has enlarged disproportionately to accommodate that increased roughage intake.
If you are having plenty of grass and all, due to good rains, you will also find that there is more "water" in the grass from fast growth, than actual nutrition... if that makes sense. Like eating a whole plate full of lettuce... it fills you up for an hour then it is so much water that it goes through you faster and then you are hungry again... and your body is not getting alot of nutrition from it.. just filler?
The fact that their manure is looking good is a plus. Many will get a little runny on real rich grass... that is another reason that a good quality hay will slow it down going through their digestive tract.

Most animals cannot handle a strictly roughage/grass diet until they are in the 500+ lb range... the protein levels are not high enough for good growth, and they cannot eat enough to get all the trace nutrients to feed the growing bones and tissues. That is why calves on cows are still getting that little extra from the cows milk to balance out what they are eating as they are developing their gut tract for a strictly roughage diet. If you take away the milk, you have to provide it another way....

Would a prebiotic help? Just wondering

 

[MurraysMutts]

@farmerjan pretty much nailed it with her post a while back.

Can't let them gorge on hay from the beginning. They will always be seeking that stuffed gut feeling.
I'd be limiting hay. And giving a good quality hay. As well as CONSISTENT feed twice a day. Weighed for 2% body weight.
1% to start.

Bottle calves are by far the most expensive to get to maturity. And making them look good requires a bit of constant care and feeding. Especially at that transition from milk to feed and hay. I want mine eating grain before they start taking much hay. I want em to know what a feed bunk is so they will eat that first and then go forage on some hay. Don't want em eating hay and fighting trying to get em on feed.

At this point, it'll just take time to for them to fill out. But will most likely have bigger bellies from here on out.

Edited to add
I'd have never used a protein tub for my babies. I like spending time with em and feeding em is a joy to me.
Honestly, I've never had a protein tub on the place. Never saw the need.

 

[jruppe89]

@farmerjan pretty much nailed it with her post a while back.

Can't let them gorge on hay from the beginning. They will always be seeking that stuffed gut feeling.
I'd be limiting hay. And giving a good quality hay. As well as CONSISTENT feed twice a day. Weighed for 2% body weight.
1% to start.

Bottle calves are by far the most expensive to get to maturity. And making them look good requires a bit of constant care and feeding. Especially at that transition from milk to feed and hay. I want mine eating grain before they start taking much hay. I want em to know what a feed bunk is so they will eat that first and then go forage on some hay. Don't want em eating hay and fighting trying to get em on feed.

At this point, it'll just take time to for them to fill out. But will most likely have bigger bellies from here on out.

Edited to add
I'd have never used a protein tub for my babies. I like spending time with em and feeding em is a joy to me.
Honestly, I've never had a protein tub on the place. Never saw the need.

I definitely tried to limit hay intake, but my FIL just moved the herd for the winter to the pasture my babies are in and has put 3 hay rings in there for the rest of the herd. I hate to lock them up but I may have to for at least a few hours a day at this point to keep them off so much hay. I guess I just keep doing what I'm doing and hope they slim down some as they grow.

 

[rocfarm]

Side shots would tell us more... but from what I can see the calves do look skinny. But they're dairy cross, right? Dairy calves always look too skinny.

I'm no orphan/bottle calf expert, but... ruminants don't just digest grass/grain. They ferment what they ingest. They cultivate huge volumes of bacteria and digest those bacteria which gives them the protein they need to develop, to grow. Young calves get their healthy gut biome from oral transfer as adults lick them. They also cultivate a gut biome over time. Chewing cud is part of the fermentation process. Do your calves chew cud when they are laying down and relaxed?

Just some thoughts. Best wishes...

No expert here either, but you might simply research grass belly. Pretty common. Starter feed should work, but you might try getting a 'soft' uncooked tub, then switching them to cooked. Had a calf I was sure would die last year that looks pretty good now.

Also, calves learn a lot of eating behavior from their herd mates and mothers. You might find that putting a steer or heifer in with them that is already broke to the cooked tub might show them how to utilize it.

 

[jruppe89]

No expert here either, but you might simply research grass belly. Pretty common. Starter feed should work, but you might try getting a 'soft' uncooked tub, then switching them to cooked. Had a calf I was sure would die last year that looks pretty good now.

Also, calves learn a lot of eating behavior from their herd mates and mothers. You might find that putting a steer or heifer in with them that is already broke to the cooked tub might show them how to utilize it.

That makes sense, unfortunately there is no other calves that are broke to a cooked tub. I can almost guarantee there has never been a protein tub of any kind on this farm before I bought one for my babies. My father-in-law sticks to strictly grass and hay, then whatever he feeds his slaughter calves each year. He never keeps bottle babies, usually finds homes for them. But I told him I would take care of the first one that was abandoned, then it turned into two. So needless to say…love him to death, but he's not much help

 

[aprille218]

You can try putting some of their grain on the tub to get them started on it. Usually only takes a time or two for them to figure it out.