Plow up and replant pasture

[lead_dog]

I'd prefer not too, but I'm considering plowing up and replanting a 50 acre pasture. It hasn't been used for years. Half of it used to be planted in annual rye; now it's mainly weeds. The other half has a fair amount of fescue, but it's not the new variety.

I'm also in the process of buying a tractor. My question is what implements will I need to properly remove existing vegetation and incorporate into the soil, and to plant a new pasture of fescue, bermuda, perinneal rye and clover? What size tractor is recommended for this?

Thanks.

 

[dun]

A sprayer, a disk and a drill. Depending on the size of the disk and drill and their requirements is what will dictate the size of the tractor.

dun

 

[lead_dog]

OK, but I don't want to spray, as we may keep it organic.

 

[dun]

OK, but I don't want to spray, as we may keep it organic.

Given 5 or 6 years of plowing severalo times a year you may get rid of the fescue without spraying, but that's doubtful. We have a field that was double cropped for 4-5 years and we've done WW for 3 years and now WSG. The fescue is growing better then anything else we've planted.

dun

 

[AngusLimoX]

Are you running cattle here?

Looking to organic crop as well?

If I had only 50 acres for pasture I would let the cattle upgrade it. Not a lot of expensive iron.

Two different situations in my book between organic crop production and organic pasture management. One requires tillage, one requires very little or no tillage.

Soil samples will be extremely helpful in determining what you do, especially if you choose to go organic.

ALX

 

[lead_dog]

We will start early next year as a diversified farm; grass fed beef, goats, chickens and pork. The hogs will be in the wooded area not on pasture, but the broilers/layers will follow the cattle.

We did a soil test first thing, which you can find here: http://www.flippinfudge.com/soil.jpg. We're going to put down 1 ton of lime per acre next week, which hopefully will help with some of the broomsedge.

My desire has been to just get the animals on the grass and see how much it improves over a couple of years, but I'm wondering if there is adequate nutrition for them. This is a picture of what the pasture looks like as of a month ago.

 

[dun]

Broomsedge won;t be gotten rid of with ph alone. It takes balance but I think the last stuff I read points to more of a K problem when broomsedge starts getting thick

dun

 

[AngusLimoX]

What dun says. I had real P and K problems with fields that had been pastured but neglected for years.

Make sure you source your inputs from organic sources, check your certifying body to be sure.( Including lime, seed , etc.. ).

If I were doing it again and I intended it to be permanent pasture I would custom everything out. Have it done right and over with. Manage it right and never worry about it again.No money in rusty iron sitting around.

ALX

 

[preston39]

Those fields don't look that bad.

I would begin adjusting the ph and no till selected forage and with pasturing keep them trimmed. Animals will help greatly with the broomsage. Ad some clovers.

 

[George Monk]

I'm with preston. If you wanted to make some gradual change and keep grazing try roundup and notill some summer annuals and then spray and notill the desires grass this fall. you have lots of option. Good luck

 

[lead_dog]

OK. My original plan was to:

A) apply 1 ton lime per acre (can't believe how expensive it is)

B) drill durana clover and perinneal rye in fall

C) put cattle on and reassess in 2-3 years

 

[Chuckie]

Dog,
As smooth as your field is, I would just no till drill it. If you lime it, fertilize it according to a soil test and plant it, the broom sage should go away. I would say that the other grasses and clovers will smother it out too.

Since I am not sure where you are located, by the picture I am going to guess you are in the South.
Here, we planted Orchard grass, Fescue, Red clover and Durana, and the only thing that we is trying to push it's way up is Curly Dock. And it is about 10 plants to the acre. I am hand spraying these. The Durana does cover the ground and forms a dense mat. Or you can plant Durana with bermuda too. They did tests in Alabama, and the clover still remained strong in the bermuda 3 years after planting. It is the only clover that can compete with bermuda.

Now my thoughts on the tractor. If I had a 50 acre pasture, and possibly would obtain more, I would at least aim for a 100 hp tractor. Give or take a few hp. Since I am not hung up on a new tractor, I would aim for a an older model with a cab. Four wheel drive of course so the front end loader won't mess up the front axle, and you can put out hay anytime no matter what the weather is like.

As the saying goes, you can do small jobs with a big tractor, but you can't do a big job with a small one.

A smaller lighter tractor is limited to what size drill you can pull and what size bushog you use. The drills are very heavy and takes a strong heavy tractor. The bush hogs, depending on if you get a three point hitch or a pull type. I personally like the three point hitch type since I can put it where I want it. But a light tractor can't carry the weight. This size tractor can handle large round hay bales in the front and back. It is costly to abuse a smaller tractor. A 100 hp tractor will handle most anything for that you need to run a small cow operation.

I never did like borrowing someone's tractor to do work that I knew was ahead of me. I would be thinking the neighbor would have that on his mind too. Letting him pay the bucks for one that will get the job done, and me skimping and buying a cheaper, smaller tractor and then go asking for his. I would have to hang my head if I asked. :shock:

My ideal tractor is a John Deere 3150,(96 hp) mechanical front wheel drive, with a cab. You can engage or disengage the front wheels depending on the situation. But if you get under a heavy pulling situation, the front wheels will automatically engage. They made these tractors around the mid 80's to early 90's. A comfortable tractor that you will enjoy operating if you have to spend several hours in it.
This is a fine tractor and is old enough that you don't have to sell any children to obtain one, but you might think about letting a kidney or a lung go.

I would stay away from the after market tractors. Like Mahindra, Kioti, etc....... (that is just my thoughts)
Chuckie

 

[lead_dog]

Since I am not sure where you are located, by the picture I am going to guess you are in the South.

I'm located in Northeast Georgia, so not much different climate than yours. You're right that our field is pretty flat...maybe a 10' grade at most over 70 acres. We do have weeds, but then again no cattle have been on it for 10 years or so, so I'm hoping we'll get it under control through rotational grazing and following with pastured broilers and layers (I know this isn't a chicken board though). We're just aiming for a diversified farm ala Joel Salatin, and not just a cattle farm.

Now my thoughts on the tractor. If I had a 50 acre pasture, and possibly would obtain more, I would at least aim for a 100 hp tractor. My ideal tractor is a John Deere 3150,(96 hp) mechanical front wheel drive, with a cab.

Glad to hear you suggest this...I was thinking I'd need at least 70 HP, now I'll aim for more. Just got to find a decent deal, and the 3150 sounds good.

I would stay away from the after market tractors. Like Mahindra, Kioti, etc....... (that is just my thoughts)

Why do you say this? I'm a newcomer, so you're not hurting my feelings, but I see lots of people around my area with New Holland/Ford and increasing numbers with Mahindra and Kioti.

Thanks for your help.

 

[Chuckie]

Dog,
I used to have a 3020, it was about 62 hp. It was a good tractor (I miss it) and handled good. But it was just a little small to do real heavy work.
On the Mahindra and Kioti tractors, they are cheap built tractors and I think they attract people that have never really used a tractor much. Most of the time, they are lighter built and the hydraulics are weaker too. They are very inexpensive compared to a John Deere or Ford.
I checked on a JD tractor compared to the Mah. 6500 and the 2750 JD. Same hp. It did show the Mahindra heavier, which surprised me, but the hydraulics were weaker. After sale support is weaker too. I think if you put them side by side, you would see where they cut the costs. If you ever tried to sell the tractor, you would lose sooooo much money if you decided to trade up. John Deere usually doesn't lose any money if you take care of it, bringing the same you paid for it years afer using it.

For second on my list, would be a Ford(New Holland), then a Massey. I am not sure if I would choose a Case(InternationaL) or a Kubota. Check with http://www.tractordata.com and compare weight, haudraulics etc.......
On the Kubota, I see too many for sale in tractor publications with low hours. For some reason, people aren't hanging on to them like the JD and then the Ford. When I see that large of a turnover on a tractor, it makes me think. Comfort and ease of operating make a difference if you spend much time on one.

I have driven a JD, Ford, International, Massey, and Kubota for extended periods of time, and to me, the John Deere comes out on top.

I am sure that some of the others will disagree, maybe they can give you their advice and you will be able to look closer at what makes them different from each other.
Chuckie

 

[Daybreak]

Howdy,

ummm, organic... ummm, well, I would hold off on the organic stuff, and do what you gotta do to the field to put it into shape, and then go organic.

Field = 50 acres
ok, if you have walked all over it and its smooth, not a lot of major holes, gopher holes, volcano's etc... then you would probably not need to do any disc'ing. With new thinking, you would be better suited to having someone spray kill the field and plant what you want. No-Till Drill. You would of course fertilize for the seeding item (ph, K and P etc...)

I do not think using a chemical to kill off a field does not mean your not organic.

 

[RockFarmer]

Howdy,

ummm, organic... ummm, well, I would hold off on the organic stuff, and do what you gotta do to the field to put it into shape, and then go organic.

I do not think using a chemical to kill off a field does not mean your not organic.

It sure does. If you use a chemical, you have to wait three years before your field is organic again. Right now, if his field has been unused (no chemical fertilizers, pesticides or herbicides) for ten years, it can be organic immediately.

We are certified organic and got started with fields that had been neglected. It is an advantage over farmers transitioning from conventional agriculture. Do not put chemicals on the field!

Lime is fine for pH adjustment. So is wood ash, if it does not have construction waste as a component. Use manures like poultry litter or composted cow manure for N. Wood ash adds a large amount of K, which is great for our soils in New Hampshire. Otherwise, you will have to use sulfate of potash for K and that stuff is expensive.

Save receipts for all field and animal inputs. The receipts must say organic or be for inputs acceptable under the program. Go to the USDA site and read the National Organic Program for cattle and pasture. And contact your certifying agency before you put anything on the field that you are unsure of.

 

[lead_dog]

I hear a lot about wood ash. Where do you get wood ash from in quantities sufficient for a 50 acre pasture, and how much would you put down anyway?

 

[RockFarmer]

Here in New Hampshire we have a number of wood-to-energy plants that take wood chips from logging waste and burn it for electricity. They generate a large amount of ash and need places to put it, so they market it to farmers. There are regulations regarding storage areas (must be flat, no water, etc.) and how it is spread. You can't spread near open water or on frozen or saturated ground.

The company I use takes your soil tests and recommends a spreading rate based on your lime needs. You need a little more ash compared to lime. If your field needs three tons of lime per acre you would probably put down four tons of wood ash. Some ash varies in its pH so that can be a factor, too.

This is my first year using it since we have always done lime. I'm putting down 84 tons on about 28 acres. About 3 tons/acre is the max rate they suggest per application. We will retest and probably put that much again down in fall.

Here, wood ash is $16/ton compared to $39/ton for lime. Wood ash also carries a large amount of potassium. This is great for us since our soils are very deficient in potassium. If your soils are sufficient or high in potassium, you probably couldn't use wood ash.

For organic fields, the key is not to use incinerator ash. Look for wood-to-energy plants that don't accept construction waste.

 

[auctionboy]

Is this a situation that you could burn the pasture then broadcast speeds, that seems cheaper then plowing and....

 

[tytower]

Don't look like it even needs liming
http://merklesorchids.com/nutrient.html

I'd just stock it and give it three or so years and then look. Ground looks pretty good now!

But Help!!I look at lead dogs soil test and something is screwy?
Wherever I look for what his levels of P K Ca and Mg should be and his levels seem about right or in Ca 's case too high already.

http://www.flippinfudge.com/soil.jpg

So what am I doing wrong ?
What type of soil is it leaddog in NE Georgia and where would the optimum levels for grass pasture in Georgia be found?