Please share your thoughts...Beefmaster bull comparison

[East Caney]

This bull is approximately 5 1/2 years old in the picture, weighs approximately 2200 lbs.

This bull was almost 2 1/2 years old in the picture, unknown weight.

Both are registered Beefmaster bulls. I've seen calves of the older bull. His sheath appears loose but has a very good angle. His offspring seem to have tight, clean sheaths and clean underlines. The 2 1/2 year old bull also breeds true as far as his sheath is concerned. I believe the older bull is a naturally thicker bull and will probably always be. The younger bull will not be as big of a mature bull. The younger bull has a stronger top. From these pictures, which bull would you have and why? What are some faults and strengths of each? Thanks.

EC

 

[BC]

Caney,
From what I can see, there are some trade offs. The older bull appears to be deeper ribbed and maybe carries his muscling down lower into his round. The younger bull has a better topline and is more level from his hooks to his pins.

I guess it depends on your cowherd what to use. The younger bulls need some depth of rib, but he is more correct in his rump structure. Sloping rumps are hard to breed out of Brahman influenced catle.

 

[Angus In Texas]

I agree with BC.

The older bull slopes too much from hooks to pins for me. It makes him look sickle hocked even though he isn't. The younger bull is stronger through his top but doesn't carry as much capacity as the younger bull. The older bull has more neck extension than I prefer but the younger bull has an awfully deep brisket which might just seem deep since he is a tad bit shallow in rib??? I think once the younger bull gets some age on him he will be a more masculine bull than the older. I would take the younger bull if I were producing replacements and the older for terminal. Overall the younger bull is a much cleaner looking animal. More eye appealing.

Just my $0.02 though

 

[ALACOWMAN]

course going on retaining heifer's the older bull has got my vote . start at the sheath which i like better than the second. the angle is great . the second is tight for a beefmaster...... i dont want a sloppy underline either. but you notice how the sheath start at the scrotum and goes foward....great milker's milk veins big as your thumb. his top line for his age and weight in compared to the younger dont bother me. his thick in the flank .......the younger bull just dont do it for me

 

[KNERSIE]

The older bull has poor shoulder structure and the resultant weaker topline. He appears to have more depth and capacity, but remember he is mature while the other bull is still growing and filling out.

I would take the younger bull over the older bull any day, especially if the plan is to sell bulls out of him. The older bull might still have a role to play, but the cows need to be very sound to justify using him over the younger bull.

It seems that the beefmaster breed needs to start paying closer attention to toplines and not just focus on the underlines

 

[bigbull338]

if i was going to take 1 of those bulls id take the younger bull.both bulls have some falts.but they arnt that bad.the older bull will only give you a couple calf crops.where as the young bull will be with you for the long haul.

 

[JR Cattle Co.]

Both bulls have good and bad characteristics. From the pictures, I see that the first bull has better body capacity, spring of rib, and easier fleshing ability (based on the assumption that both bulls have equal access to feed). It is my opinion that the second bull is more correct in his structure when compared to the first bull especially from hooks to pins. He is younger, which means that you might get more years out of him, and his characteristics are more indicative of the Bos Taurus type cattle, which in my area, bring more than the "eared" cattle. It is a trade off either way, but I would have to go with the younger bull.

 

[goddy]

I'd have to go for the young bull, looks to be very structurally sound and is very smooth and clean. One question - what is his scrotal size ?

The older bull sure is deep but I wonder how many more seasons he can give.

Nice photo's of good stock make this very interesting - congratulations.

Goddy

 

[Beefy]

The older bull is excellent, that is exactly the kind of bull i look for. the younger bull is nice too.

unless there are some major pros/cons hidden in their epds, i would definitely go with the older bull!

(i once bought a 10 year old beefmaster bull for $1000 and that was some of the best money i ever spent)

 

[East Caney]

Well, I'm trying to keep replacements for the next several years to build my herd. I think I started with a good base, but I don't want to take any steps backwards. I've posted all but three of my cows (just got them) on this site, so everyone knows what my base is.

You can see them all and see underlines, hooks to pins, depth, muscling, and everything else. Knowing what my cattle look like (I can post recent pictures of the two heifers I bought as weaned calves), which way would you go? I eventually will be worried about producing bulls, but I want to produce genuinely good bulls. I want great bulls coming out of great females.

EC

 

[East Caney]

I'd have to go for the young bull, looks to be very structurally sound and is very smooth and clean. One question - what is his scrotal size ?

The older bull sure is deep but I wonder how many more seasons he can give.

Nice photo's of good stock make this very interesting - congratulations.

Goddy

Goddy, I don't know his scrotal size. I saw it in person (the picture doesn't show their width at all). He's probably 37-39 cm. He's probably just a little smaller than the bull I posted back in May. The older bull is nicknamed "BB". I didn't ask why...after looking at him, I just assumed...

 

[East Caney]

The older bull has poor shoulder structure and the resultant weaker topline. He appears to have more depth and capacity, but remember he is mature while the other bull is still growing and filling out.

I would take the younger bull over the older bull any day, especially if the plan is to sell bulls out of him. The older bull might still have a role to play, but the cows need to be very sound to justify using him over the younger bull.

It seems that the beefmaster breed needs to start paying closer attention to toplines and not just focus on the underlines

Do you prefer the younger bull for the purpose of producing bulls mainly because of his structural soundness? The older bull is very thick and passes it along. Or course, weight is only one of the essentials we breed for..

EC

 

[KNERSIE]

The older bull has poor shoulder structure and the resultant weaker topline. He appears to have more depth and capacity, but remember he is mature while the other bull is still growing and filling out.

I would take the younger bull over the older bull any day, especially if the plan is to sell bulls out of him. The older bull might still have a role to play, but the cows need to be very sound to justify using him over the younger bull.

It seems that the beefmaster breed needs to start paying closer attention to toplines and not just focus on the underlines

Do you prefer the younger bull for the purpose of producing bulls mainly because of his structural soundness? The older bull is very thick and passes it along. Or course, weight is only one of the essentials we breed for..

EC

Yes, structural flaws will eventully affect longevity.

I honestly don't think there is much of a difference in muscling and fleshing ability between the two, when the younger bull reaches maturity by the time he is about 3 1/2 he will look very much like the older bull. I see every indication that the younger bull will still fill out.

If possible try and get a photo of the older bull when he was the same age as the younger bull. That would be an interesting comparison.

 

[ANAZAZI]

Go for the young one!
he has got all qualities; top line, hind quarters, bottom line, better colour with no white, and the only thing the old one has is depth wich the young one still will gain. The exterior aspects are vital as you are going to keep daugters for perhaps twelve years even if bullcalves or steers are sold much erlier.

 

[ALACOWMAN]

The older bull is excellent, that is exactly the kind of bull i look for. the younger bull is nice too.

unless there are some major pros/cons hidden in their epds, i would definitely go with the older bull!

• (i once bought a 10 year old beefmaster bull for $1000

and that was some of the best money i ever spent)

ive seen alot of beefmaster bull's that were 10 are better that were still sound . if you are going to retain heifer's you won't keep him long anyway

 

[manaftergodsheart413]

Both of the bulls are very good. I don't really think that you could go wrong with either. Seeing as how I know the genetics and the history of where the bulls come from, I would be hard pressed to choose one or the other. I think both would be great herdsires in the future.

 

[East Caney]

The older bull is excellent, that is exactly the kind of bull i look for. the younger bull is nice too.

unless there are some major pros/cons hidden in their epds, i would definitely go with the older bull!

• (i once bought a 10 year old beefmaster bull for $1000

and that was some of the best money i ever spent)

ive seen alot of beefmaster bull's that were 10 are better that were still sound . if you are going to retain heifer's you won't keep him long anyway

I would only be keeping the older bull for the 2008 breeding season. I'm sure he could have several more years, but I would be ready to move on. The younger bull would get 2 breeding seasons. Then, he would go unless I had another pasture to put his daughters in by that time and/or his daughter looked so good that I had to give him more time.

EC

 

[East Caney]

Both of the bulls are very good. I don't really think that you could go wrong with either. Seeing as how I know the genetics and the history of where the bulls come from, I would be hard pressed to choose one or the other. I think both would be great herdsires in the future.

For the rest of you, the older bull is an L Bar 5502 son. He weaned an adjusted 205 just over 700 lbs out of a first calf heifer. The younger bull is a Lasater 7615 son. He had an adjusted 205 of 618 lbs.

The younger bull doesn't have quite as much frame as the older, which is why I don't think he will be as big. He may have just as much muscle relative to his size. I think the older bull has a little more and will always have a little more hind end on him.

EC

 

[Santas and Duhram Reds]

Older bull. If your going to keep heifers, I don't care what the scrotal size of the younger bull is, the older bull is bigger. Everything else is 6 one way and half a dozen the other.

 

[Beefy]

in that case where can i pick the older bull up and how much money do i need to bring?

why flip a great bull so soon?