Goodlife":yt7gzd3n said:I would like to hear more about vinyl or plastic fending. I took a shake on the vinyl and it was less sturdy that I would have liked. Does it come in different strengths? It felt to me like it would keep a cow in that didn't mind being kept in, but if a bull wanted out this wouldn't be very effective.
I liked your idea 3Way Cross. It makes sense to start with raising some purchased calves the first season or two. Are there best seasons to purchase a calf and sell the pasture raised beef in Monroe county IL?
Talk to your local sale barn. They can tell you for sure what the market is where you live. Just remember that cattle will always be higher going to green grass, than coming off of it. If I was you I would look to buy in late fall. That should be the lowest prices of the year. However the way things are who knows what we are in store for.
Good tips on the Barn SirLoin. One problem I see around a lot of barns is trompled up barn area. Are there ways to protect from this? Is this a problem of having this area not covered correctly, too many animals in too small an area or something else?
Also regarding Barns SirLoin, what would you use for flooring in each of the 8 areas you mention?
Thanks for the 'fridge' tip Ouachita.
Ed
Planning a new small ranch
- Thread starter Goodlife
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Ed,
Re:
Most of these problems can be alleviated by installing rain gutters that empty into an underground drainage system along with proper grading away from the building.
Re:
That is except for the office floor.
That should be either wood or concrete cover with ceramic tile, with a drain that is connected to the outside underground drainage system so you can hose all that spilled beer down. That way your wife will NOT have to come into your man cave to clean up after you.
SL
PS When you run your water and electric lines to the barn, don't forget to run a phone line and cable TV for your big screen.
WHAT???????????????
Re:
Yes, yes and yes.
Most of these problems can be alleviated by installing rain gutters that empty into an underground drainage system along with proper grading away from the building.
Re:
Dirt! And the floor of the barn should be 6 inches higher then the exterior grade.
That is except for the office floor.
That should be either wood or concrete cover with ceramic tile, with a drain that is connected to the outside underground drainage system so you can hose all that spilled beer down. That way your wife will NOT have to come into your man cave to clean up after you.
SL
PS When you run your water and electric lines to the barn, don't forget to run a phone line and cable TV for your big screen.
WHAT???????????????
snickers
Well-known member
hey goodlife i live just down the road from waterloo actually about 30 minutes south of you anyway welcome to the cattleboard and the neighborhood. we have 42 acres that we have our 12 cow's on and a bull. this year we havent had to feed hay except this last week we sit a bale out for them and i hate complaining considering all the folks from texas. one thing you might want to think about is electric fence, all our cow's and bull stay in with one strand electric no problems (i,m knocking on wood right now) lol we love having new calves in the spring and generally just enjoy watching the girls graze it's peaceful for us and our grandkids.
OP
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Goodlife
Well-known member
Snickers, we might even be closer. Our prop is closer to Maeystown, just thought many more would have heard of Waterloo.
Do you have any recommendation for purchasing, for example hired someone you liked or didn't for a pole barn? Or know the best place to purchase fence materials? And perhaps most importantly, a place to purchase dependably good hay?
Ed
Do you have any recommendation for purchasing, for example hired someone you liked or didn't for a pole barn? Or know the best place to purchase fence materials? And perhaps most importantly, a place to purchase dependably good hay?
Ed
Running Arrow Bill
Well-known member
Welcome! My 2 cents worth...
First and foremost on your property...is it OUTSIDE of any City Limits (aka in the "County")...if it is outside, you can probably do whatever you want to...unless "city" expansion is destined to encroach on your livestock plans.
Second, it is mandatory that you have a secure perimeter fence for cattle: At least 4.5' high and minimum 5 strands of barb wire. Vinyl fencing is "pretty" and often used for tame horses. For cattle, vinyl is just a breach & escape waiting to happen...it is not appropriate for cattle of any breed. Electric fencing is not safe enough for perimenter fencing to keep yours in and others out, and reduce your liability for any estrays that might escape.
Third, don't worry about the barn at this stage. After perimeter fencing is secure, may erect one or two "loafing" (aka run-in) sheds, 3 sided, facing South. Barns are expensive...and a luxury. For hay storage, can use another loafing shed (out of reach of cattle).
Fourth, any structures should be uphill from drainage...and above grade.
Fifth, need a working corral so you can easily capture and de-worm, vaccinate, "work", and care for any cattle problems. If a Vet has to come out (rarely unless you or cattle are accident prone...lol), he/she will need a good secure facility to confine animals...e.g., squeeze chute area.
Sixth, you need a freeze-proof water faucet near your pens/corral to be able to easily fill water tanks.
One question you asked was about annual vacc. costs. Generally, not more than $25. a year per head, including annual vacc., 2X year de-worming at minimum. Calves need both about month apart for 2 series prior to weaning at 5 to 7 months of age.
Finally, cattle operation is a 24/7/365 business and Murphy's Law is constantly in effect...
Bill
First and foremost on your property...is it OUTSIDE of any City Limits (aka in the "County")...if it is outside, you can probably do whatever you want to...unless "city" expansion is destined to encroach on your livestock plans.
Second, it is mandatory that you have a secure perimeter fence for cattle: At least 4.5' high and minimum 5 strands of barb wire. Vinyl fencing is "pretty" and often used for tame horses. For cattle, vinyl is just a breach & escape waiting to happen...it is not appropriate for cattle of any breed. Electric fencing is not safe enough for perimenter fencing to keep yours in and others out, and reduce your liability for any estrays that might escape.
Third, don't worry about the barn at this stage. After perimeter fencing is secure, may erect one or two "loafing" (aka run-in) sheds, 3 sided, facing South. Barns are expensive...and a luxury. For hay storage, can use another loafing shed (out of reach of cattle).
Fourth, any structures should be uphill from drainage...and above grade.
Fifth, need a working corral so you can easily capture and de-worm, vaccinate, "work", and care for any cattle problems. If a Vet has to come out (rarely unless you or cattle are accident prone...lol), he/she will need a good secure facility to confine animals...e.g., squeeze chute area.
Sixth, you need a freeze-proof water faucet near your pens/corral to be able to easily fill water tanks.
One question you asked was about annual vacc. costs. Generally, not more than $25. a year per head, including annual vacc., 2X year de-worming at minimum. Calves need both about month apart for 2 series prior to weaning at 5 to 7 months of age.
Finally, cattle operation is a 24/7/365 business and Murphy's Law is constantly in effect...
Bill
HDRider
Well-known member
Goodlife - Check your PM.
Gale Seddon
Well-known member
Goodlife, I'll throw in my little bits of advice, some of which may already have been mentioned. When visitors come to us to see our small herd and how we do things, I tell them:
(1) make friends with your county extension agent; a good one can advise you on many things and refer you to people you may need now or in the future (fencing, hay, educational cattle courses, AI, vets, people to haul cattle); should also come out to your farm at no charge and actually identify what's growing in your pastures, etc., and should be knowledgeable about govt. programs that may help you get started.
(2) Make contact with a large animal vet BEFORE you get your animals; vets are more likely to respond to your emergencies (yes, at some point you WILL have one) if they know who you are and have been to your farm. They will NOT give out meds to someone they don't know. And they don't appreciate rodeos (catching animals in order to treat them). Establish a herd health program with the vet.
(3) Get your facilities ready BEFORE your animals arrive (I have often seen that emphasized on these boards). Sooner or later, you'll need a small(er) enclosure in which to keep a sick animal or one that is due to calve. Corral panels are portable and can be used in many ways, inside a barn or outside. Make sure there's some sort of shelter available. The cow that's due to calve may not use it, but her calf will.
(4) Make sure you have a good source of hay and inside storage for it, esp. if square bales.
(5) Reliable source of water that remains unfrozen (preferably not a pond).
(6) Don't buy bred heifers if you're new to this. Get an older, proven cow that has raised calves. Not a guarantee there won't be a calving problem, but less likely.
(7) Don't buy a bull initially. They can be management problems; they like to mess with things (fences, mineral feeders, hay rings, anything not nailed down).
(8) Get a breed that you can readily take to the livestock market -- not a niche breed.
(9) If in doubt, start with several beef weanlings (steers), because there are always people who are eager to fill their freezer with a half-beef. No worries about checking pregnant cows, no bull to manage, and you can eat your mistakes if you change your mind about this farming stuff.
(10) Get a couple of good basic cattle books and read, read, read.
Hey, better yet, come to VA and I'll give you my 2-hour tour!
There's more to tell, but the people on this board will give you sound advice. Good luck with all these decisions!!!
(1) make friends with your county extension agent; a good one can advise you on many things and refer you to people you may need now or in the future (fencing, hay, educational cattle courses, AI, vets, people to haul cattle); should also come out to your farm at no charge and actually identify what's growing in your pastures, etc., and should be knowledgeable about govt. programs that may help you get started.
(2) Make contact with a large animal vet BEFORE you get your animals; vets are more likely to respond to your emergencies (yes, at some point you WILL have one) if they know who you are and have been to your farm. They will NOT give out meds to someone they don't know. And they don't appreciate rodeos (catching animals in order to treat them). Establish a herd health program with the vet.
(3) Get your facilities ready BEFORE your animals arrive (I have often seen that emphasized on these boards). Sooner or later, you'll need a small(er) enclosure in which to keep a sick animal or one that is due to calve. Corral panels are portable and can be used in many ways, inside a barn or outside. Make sure there's some sort of shelter available. The cow that's due to calve may not use it, but her calf will.
(4) Make sure you have a good source of hay and inside storage for it, esp. if square bales.
(5) Reliable source of water that remains unfrozen (preferably not a pond).
(6) Don't buy bred heifers if you're new to this. Get an older, proven cow that has raised calves. Not a guarantee there won't be a calving problem, but less likely.
(7) Don't buy a bull initially. They can be management problems; they like to mess with things (fences, mineral feeders, hay rings, anything not nailed down).
(8) Get a breed that you can readily take to the livestock market -- not a niche breed.
(9) If in doubt, start with several beef weanlings (steers), because there are always people who are eager to fill their freezer with a half-beef. No worries about checking pregnant cows, no bull to manage, and you can eat your mistakes if you change your mind about this farming stuff.
(10) Get a couple of good basic cattle books and read, read, read.
Hey, better yet, come to VA and I'll give you my 2-hour tour!
There's more to tell, but the people on this board will give you sound advice. Good luck with all these decisions!!!
OP
OP
Goodlife
Well-known member
I hear you 3WC, I do hope to get to know the ranchers close by that have cattle. Both to learn from, and to become part of the community. I have of course been laying out my fences on paper and they all funnel towards the corral/barn area as you mention. I am also trying to get a small piece of woods on each pasture to provide a shaded place for the cattle to lay. I was looking to break up the 10 acres of pasture pretty much equally into 4 sections to rotate the grazing.
A separate question I have to decide on. We have public water available at the main road. Between 1/4 and 1/2 mile away. What recommendations do you have regarding digging a well or hooking up to the public system. I was shocked to find they have public water this far out really so assumed I would be digging a well. I have asked around and the local average price for a well seems to be around $10k. I beleive it will be almost that much to hook up and run water to my place from the public pipe. Advantages and disadvantages of each?
Another small decision. Belly mower or rear pull bush hog? Any advantages to either?
On the barn Sir Loin, my Dad and Grandpa both had barns open on both ends (with gates to close off ends) for the livestock in winter. Is this okay or di I need to provide a bit warmer shelter? We get down to roughly 0 deg. in winter around here.
I find myself automatically doing what my family did and learning to do things differently is difficult. I enjoy the tag line one poster here has about the fastest way to lose money is to do what Grandpa did, and the quickest way to go broke is to forget what Grandpa did. I don't think I got it exact but you get the point.
Thanks everyone for you much enjoyed and helpful input.
Ed
A separate question I have to decide on. We have public water available at the main road. Between 1/4 and 1/2 mile away. What recommendations do you have regarding digging a well or hooking up to the public system. I was shocked to find they have public water this far out really so assumed I would be digging a well. I have asked around and the local average price for a well seems to be around $10k. I beleive it will be almost that much to hook up and run water to my place from the public pipe. Advantages and disadvantages of each?
Another small decision. Belly mower or rear pull bush hog? Any advantages to either?
On the barn Sir Loin, my Dad and Grandpa both had barns open on both ends (with gates to close off ends) for the livestock in winter. Is this okay or di I need to provide a bit warmer shelter? We get down to roughly 0 deg. in winter around here.
I find myself automatically doing what my family did and learning to do things differently is difficult. I enjoy the tag line one poster here has about the fastest way to lose money is to do what Grandpa did, and the quickest way to go broke is to forget what Grandpa did. I don't think I got it exact but you get the point.
Thanks everyone for you much enjoyed and helpful input.
Ed
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Goodlife
Well-known member
Gale Seddon":39dg4mgp said:
Thanks for this one Gale. I had been trying to find out on the internet what an Extension Agent was all about. I will be finding out who mine is and giving him a friendly ring.
I also had decided that the first year or two I will purchase a couple of calves and trying to raise them to feeder steers. Then if all is going well move to breeder cattle. This allows me to get my feet wet and as you said, finding people who want to purchase a side of beef is easy. I have had a lot of my frineds that know I am doing this proclaim they want to purchase a side of beef from me. It is good to know where your food comes from.
My DW won't be too happy when I tell her the vinyl fence just won't work for cattle. She loves the look. I am happy however. Have you looked at the price of the vinyl fencing? Whew!!
Ed
Running Arrow Bill
Well-known member
An average able-bodied human can run and hit a vinyl plank with their shoulder and knock it loose...just imagine what a bovine could do...just walk thru all the planks...
snickers
Well-known member
i have a brother-in-law that lives really close to you, have you heard of renault ill? i think maestown, renault are about the same rural country with a name. lol there are some people around here that do sell hay i can get the number for ya if you want when your ready. he has grass, alfalfa and clover big round bales so that would require a tractor to move those. there's a guy who lives in ellis grove that actually works at a one of the closest sale barns around and he knows alot of people who sell calves, bulls, pregnant cow's, really anything you would want and i think he would be honest with you altho i havent done business with him. he hauls cattle for people too so when and if you want to get his number just let me know. i wish i didnt have to work a regular job i am content on the farm little as it is. we have old stuff that my husband usually has to fix and repair b4 he uses it but it's cheap. if i ever hit the lottery that's the first thing i'd but him. a new tractor with front wheel assist, disc mower (for cutting hay) and a new baler that also could wrap the hay. we have all our hay outside and have tried covering with tarps but have quit doing that because it would mold worse under the tarps. we have commercial grade mixed cow's that are really a good bunch that dont cause any trouble and they all have names (i know shouldnt do that) but we get by on what we have and love every minute of it.
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Goodlife
Well-known member
How many of you purchase cattle at the Sale Barn versus from a local ranch? When you purchase from a Sale Barn, do you find the seller to be honest regarding parent traits, health, disposition, etc...?
Running Arrow Bill
Well-known member
Goodlife":wzxomdq1 said:
At local sale barns, "what you see is what you get (sometimes get less than what you see)". Sellers names are anonymous. Wranglers (pen riders) herd an animal(s) into the sale ring. Auctioneer starts. Comments will be made as to heifer, cow, steer, bull. If a heifer or cow will comment as to whether animal has been palpated for pregnancy check (sometimes no comment).
You won't get animal history, pedigree, medical record, etc. Sale barns sell "meat" by the pound (or as a young, old female (0r) if the female is sold with calf at side.)
Only way you will know where the animal comes from and its history is to purchase from a ranch direct via private treaty.
Hope this helps. Bill
A lot of salebarns have special stock cow/replacement sales. At those sales or at disbursals you can get the previous owners name and talk with them. Traders will sometimes put toghether herds bought from sale barns all over the place and sell them at the special sales. Usually the salebarn owner/management will know where the animals are from.Running Arrow Bill":3cjto0qb said:
snickers
Well-known member
the sale barn we use will tell us when i person is getting out of the business and they are selling the whole herd. that way you dont just get everyone else's culls. usually you can pick some of those up without to much worry and have decent stuff.
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Goodlife
Well-known member
What Sale Barn do you use Snickers? Even if I purchase from a local ranch based on a recommendation from my vet, it seems I would learn a lot by hanging and watching some sales at auction.
snickers
Well-known member
i love to take off work and go to the sale barn. we usually go to fruitland livestock auction barn in mo. it's close to cape Girardeau, mo. actually jackson exit. the guy who sit's the price in the ring and i think part owner name is neal franky and i have his number if you would ever want that. you can call neal and get the trend for the week or ask if know's anyone bringing some good calves or cow's through anytime soon and he would tell you. fruitland sale is on tuesdays and it starts at 12:30 they have a small little diner that is pretty good too! the other sale barn is also across the chester bridge and that location is patton mo. there sale is on mondays and i think they start at 12:00 not certain about that. i personally like fruitland better, better sale ring, can go out back and look at all the livestock that will go thru the ring,just really nice people.
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Goodlife
Well-known member
Thanks...and I know exactly where Fruitland is. My family is all from SE MO. DW has family in Jackson.
Ed
Ed
