jaimefloresh
Well-known member
helo, i just got a pinto stud for my mares, but i don´t know what colors to spect. have blacks, browns, sorrel, what do you think
pinto horse
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jaimefloresh
Well-known member
It is a paint most white and Brown patches, tanksAlan":1j1uya2p said:
pdfangus
Well-known member
Alan":20rniqlh said:
Alan...I know you are correct in your distinctions.....
but please read it and see if you don't agree with me that people with their rules and breed associations and making breeds out of coat patterns and colors have not lost all grip on reality......
once upon a time pinto and paint were both colors and were interchangeable terms....
chippie
Well-known member
Some people call them pinto, some call them paints.
There are two registries. The American Paint Horse Association (http://www.apha.com) and The Pinto Horse Association of America (http://www.pinto.org/)
The American Paint Horse Association is made up of pedigreed horses (at least one registered APHA parent and the other parent either APHA or American Quarter Horse or Jockey Club registered horses). It is a closed registry.
The Pinto Horse Association of America is a color registry and will register horses that meet the color requirements as long as they do not have draft or Appaloosa breeding. They accept different breeds such as ponies, American Saddlebred and Arabian bloodlines.
Many people in the US refer to their colored horses as Paints, even though they may not be registered stock. Some call them Pintos. I have a couple of horses registered with both registries.
If you browse the APHA site, it has information about color patterns and colors. http://my.apha.com/breed
Depending on your stallion, you may get solid colored horses. Just because he is pinto or paint colored does not guarantee that he will throw his color. I have a friend who has a loud colored black and white paint stallion. Out of 20 foals over the years, only one came out colored. All of the others were solid.
Here is a link to a color calculator.
Good luck!
http://www.horsetesting.com/ccalculator1.asp
There are two registries. The American Paint Horse Association (http://www.apha.com) and The Pinto Horse Association of America (http://www.pinto.org/)
The American Paint Horse Association is made up of pedigreed horses (at least one registered APHA parent and the other parent either APHA or American Quarter Horse or Jockey Club registered horses). It is a closed registry.
The Pinto Horse Association of America is a color registry and will register horses that meet the color requirements as long as they do not have draft or Appaloosa breeding. They accept different breeds such as ponies, American Saddlebred and Arabian bloodlines.
Many people in the US refer to their colored horses as Paints, even though they may not be registered stock. Some call them Pintos. I have a couple of horses registered with both registries.
If you browse the APHA site, it has information about color patterns and colors. http://my.apha.com/breed
Depending on your stallion, you may get solid colored horses. Just because he is pinto or paint colored does not guarantee that he will throw his color. I have a friend who has a loud colored black and white paint stallion. Out of 20 foals over the years, only one came out colored. All of the others were solid.
Here is a link to a color calculator.
Good luck!
http://www.horsetesting.com/ccalculator1.asp
pdfangus
Well-known member
chippie.....
I understand all of that....
not to be demeaning or insulting....
but one registry is designed to register horses that could not be registerd in the old days in their parent breeds and cross breds of those horses....
and the other is designed to register anything based on colors....
I have a mare that is 3/4 qh and 1/4 percheron....she is registered....
in the half quarter horse registry.....
registries are nothing more than the expressed intent of a group of fanciers and in some cases just a way to raise money....
like your stallion example....registry set up on color...stallion only throws five percent color yet all his foals are eligible for registration if the proper fees are submitted....
do either of these registries have a breed standard for conformation, qualities, skills, abilities or suitability for a particular purpose? I would think it would be difficult....
So they are a listing of horses known to be at least somehow related to a horse of another color.....or two....
on and don't worry....there is a painted draft association as well....
I understand all of that....
not to be demeaning or insulting....
but one registry is designed to register horses that could not be registerd in the old days in their parent breeds and cross breds of those horses....
and the other is designed to register anything based on colors....
I have a mare that is 3/4 qh and 1/4 percheron....she is registered....
in the half quarter horse registry.....
registries are nothing more than the expressed intent of a group of fanciers and in some cases just a way to raise money....
like your stallion example....registry set up on color...stallion only throws five percent color yet all his foals are eligible for registration if the proper fees are submitted....
do either of these registries have a breed standard for conformation, qualities, skills, abilities or suitability for a particular purpose? I would think it would be difficult....
So they are a listing of horses known to be at least somehow related to a horse of another color.....or two....
on and don't worry....there is a painted draft association as well....
chippie
Well-known member
I know all of that, including the Spotted Draft registry. I was trying to clarify it for the original poster.
The American Paint Horse Association does have a breed standard like the AQHA has one. It was founded in 1965 http://www.apha.com/breed/history
The Pinto Horse registry registers horses according to type. The shows have different classes according to type and the horses in the classes must meet the standard for their type. For example: stock horse being Quarter Horse build. The only thing that bothers me about the Pinto registry is that they are trying to increase their registration numbers and will register any solid colored horse registered in another breed association as Solid Pinto bred. I was watching the Buckskin World show last week (a friend was showing) and the announcer said that the Pinto Horse Assoc. had a booth there and to come by and register your buckskin horse as a Solid Pinto bred to increase it's value. :roll:
At least the APHA Solid Paint Bred horses are out of registered APHA horses and have a pedigree to back it up. A solid paint bred horse still carries a patterned gene, it just isn't expressed.
My family shows APHA, AQHA and Pinto. We have a couple that are triple registered horses.
The American Paint Horse Association does have a breed standard like the AQHA has one. It was founded in 1965 http://www.apha.com/breed/history
The Pinto Horse registry registers horses according to type. The shows have different classes according to type and the horses in the classes must meet the standard for their type. For example: stock horse being Quarter Horse build. The only thing that bothers me about the Pinto registry is that they are trying to increase their registration numbers and will register any solid colored horse registered in another breed association as Solid Pinto bred. I was watching the Buckskin World show last week (a friend was showing) and the announcer said that the Pinto Horse Assoc. had a booth there and to come by and register your buckskin horse as a Solid Pinto bred to increase it's value. :roll:
At least the APHA Solid Paint Bred horses are out of registered APHA horses and have a pedigree to back it up. A solid paint bred horse still carries a patterned gene, it just isn't expressed.
My family shows APHA, AQHA and Pinto. We have a couple that are triple registered horses.
I think the horse associations APHA, AQHA and Pinto horse association (PtHA) all got greedy and hurt their associations creditability. Just to muddy the waters more, chippie is right on target with the type of horses allowed in the pinto association. But, which is probably included in the ponies can be pintos, mini horses are allowed in the pinto association if they have enough color. So in my opinion a pinto is not a breed of horse it's a color of horse.
Now getting to the AQHA and the APHA. If two QH's threw a foal with too much white (color) to meet the AQHA standards, it was called a "crop out" QH, but could not be registered as a paint. If you received a solid color or a minimal white marked foal from a APHA and AQHA breeding it was call a "breeding stock" paint. Both the crop out and the breeding stock could be registered with their respective associations, but we're dreamed undesirable.
Now enter the money move and it's been enough years I can't remember with association made the first move. I believe the APHA opened their books to crop outs, meaning allowing them to be registered as a APHA , thus now they were both AQHA and APHA making them much more desirable horses since their foals could be doubled registered also. So the AQHA opened their books to any APHA horse that traced back to a crop out. It wasn't as simple as I made it sound, the owner had to jump through a lot of hoops and prove the breeding and ownership. For owners with a horse one or two generations out of, let's say a crop out, it was fairly easy to get done. But because of a lady who made the effort to get her four time world champion paint horse registered with the AQHA it opened the window for me. she jumped through the hoops for five generations, back to the original crop out. I have two horses which are doubled registered, APHA and AQHA, one breeding stock paint is now a QH and one overo horse is now a QH (both have been registered pinto also, so technically they are tripled registered for all the good that is). It wasn't easy to get your horse doubled registered so not a big percentage of horses where doubled registered in the whole big picture of the AQHA and the APHA. So in short, not all colored stock type horses are paints they are QH's, not all solid stock type horses are QH's they are paints ...... But some are both. :?
To the OP, sorry for the hijack. Chippie gave you a great link to answer your tough question on expected color. I only brought up the pinto or paint questions because as you see if the horse was a pinto it opened up a very wide door. Also with breed associations it as much about quality as it is money.
Now getting to the AQHA and the APHA. If two QH's threw a foal with too much white (color) to meet the AQHA standards, it was called a "crop out" QH, but could not be registered as a paint. If you received a solid color or a minimal white marked foal from a APHA and AQHA breeding it was call a "breeding stock" paint. Both the crop out and the breeding stock could be registered with their respective associations, but we're dreamed undesirable.
Now enter the money move and it's been enough years I can't remember with association made the first move. I believe the APHA opened their books to crop outs, meaning allowing them to be registered as a APHA , thus now they were both AQHA and APHA making them much more desirable horses since their foals could be doubled registered also. So the AQHA opened their books to any APHA horse that traced back to a crop out. It wasn't as simple as I made it sound, the owner had to jump through a lot of hoops and prove the breeding and ownership. For owners with a horse one or two generations out of, let's say a crop out, it was fairly easy to get done. But because of a lady who made the effort to get her four time world champion paint horse registered with the AQHA it opened the window for me. she jumped through the hoops for five generations, back to the original crop out. I have two horses which are doubled registered, APHA and AQHA, one breeding stock paint is now a QH and one overo horse is now a QH (both have been registered pinto also, so technically they are tripled registered for all the good that is). It wasn't easy to get your horse doubled registered so not a big percentage of horses where doubled registered in the whole big picture of the AQHA and the APHA. So in short, not all colored stock type horses are paints they are QH's, not all solid stock type horses are QH's they are paints ...... But some are both. :?
To the OP, sorry for the hijack. Chippie gave you a great link to answer your tough question on expected color. I only brought up the pinto or paint questions because as you see if the horse was a pinto it opened up a very wide door. Also with breed associations it as much about quality as it is money.
chippie":3rknpza6 said:
You posted while I was writing my short novel :lol: . I didn't know the pinto association did that! Opening the books to any solid to become "breeding stock" pinto..... So is why I don't have much respect for the pinto association.
pdfangus
Well-known member
yall have made my point....it is all about the money....and the perception that a horse with "papers" is worth more than any other good solid using horse.....
don't want to get me started on how show judges ruin livestock.....
that is one thing I really liked about the steer project that Fire Sweep had in his other thread....not a mention of a judge....
don't want to get me started on how show judges ruin livestock.....
that is one thing I really liked about the steer project that Fire Sweep had in his other thread....not a mention of a judge....
, the last line of my rant about AQHA, APHA and pintos should have read "Also with breed associations it's NOT as much about quality as it is money". Small detail, I left out the word not when comparing animal quality to $$$ the associations want to make. pdfangus":2hh12y55 said:
PDF, I couldn't agree with you more! To add to that and some of my hang up, is the cr@p some (most) horse breeders produce. They get a POS stallion who can be traced back 13 generations to Leo and that meets their requirement for stallion quality ....... And they sell it as a Leo bred QH.
TexasBred
Well-known member
Bigfoot":1w7c1wov said:
BF you know why the Indians always rode "Pinto's" (aka Paint). They were the only ones they could chase down on foot and catch. :lol2:
suzorse
Well-known member
you will get chestnut, bays and maybe black, is the stallion a tobiano or overo,? are the mares solid or colored ?
if a stallion is a bay you will get all of the above colors, if black same and if chestnut/sorrel same other than you will get 100%
chestnut/sorrel out of chestnut/sorrel mares
Suzanne
if a stallion is a bay you will get all of the above colors, if black same and if chestnut/sorrel same other than you will get 100%
chestnut/sorrel out of chestnut/sorrel mares
Suzanne
TexasBred
Well-known member
Bigfoot":3qw9igxl said:
BF that may be the real reason. ;-)
cow pollinater
Well-known member
Bigfoot":1fbtzph4 said:
:lol: Having been on a few, I can honestly say you might just be on to something. :lol:
I am not a fan of an Appaloosa. I would add to that, the two nicest horse that I have ever owned in my life were app horses. Both were willing to please, and very easy to put a handle on. I think the fact that they are unique draws a lot of first time horse owners to them, thus giving them an even worse name than they deserve
Pinto/paint/ and spotted saddle
Got really popular here a few years ago. There were some pretty trashy horses standing at stud in this area, and people were breeding to them like crazy. It kinda ruined the industry around where I live.
Pinto/paint/ and spotted saddle
Got really popular here a few years ago. There were some pretty trashy horses standing at stud in this area, and people were breeding to them like crazy. It kinda ruined the industry around where I live.
