Pedigrees AND Phenotype!

Help Support CattleToday:

Tim is one of the owners of 6807 Doc, if you look at the Ohlde pedigrees, the bulls all originated from about 4 foundation cows primarily bred to 6807 and the resulting offspring were bred to each other, the rainmaker bull and ext.

I think that these big boys are realizing that this single trait carcass selection is producing one gut wonders and are in a hurry to put some usefulness back into their cattle. The Ohlde cattle appear to have been multitrait selected and it shows.
 
Well, one of the most impressive sons of 6807 is OCC Emblazon 854E or Rito 6I6 of 4B20 6807. Those 6I6 daughters are some darn good females. I haven't seen many Emblazon daughters in production just yet but probably will be some soon?

THG
 
While I do agree with Doc, there is some evidence that to having 6807 to many times in a pedigree causes some problems. I am not sure that it's a certain number. It's interesting if he was used intensely but one generation further away if it would make a difference or not.
 
SEC-

You are right. 6807 was the "progenitor" of the excellent cattle which have been produced from these matings, and most of the son's of 6807 have a more desirable phenotype (and, consequently, genotype {EPD's} also) than 6807 himself. This is a prime and absolute example of why linebreeding works - and at the same time - must be CAREFULLY monitored and managed. It is not a game of tiddley-winks that we are playing here.

The beautiful catalogs, the breath-taking Ranches and Farms and the stimulating and exciting Auctions with the hypnotic Auctioneer's chants all blend together to encourage and motivate cattle sales - and that is all well and good - but the breeder's who actually do the work involved in the industry MUST be educated and knowledgeable in what they are doing, and KNOW when to breed X to Y, and when to say enough is enough. If one get's so caught up in one pattern of breeding that negative results occur, THAT is "throwing out the baby with the bath water!"

N BAR EMULATION EXT is a result of 1/2 sibling matings (EXT's sire AND dam were sired by the same bull - Emulation 31), and that is why EXT was such a remarkable Genetic influence on the Angus Breed - BUT - the negative lack of 'docility' (wild-eyed idiots!) which transpired with too close inbreeding ALSO came from Emulation 31 and his genetics. I saw Ankony collect Emulation 31 when they were at the Bennett, CO. breeding facility, (25+ years ago) and that crazy %#$%(*&^ was a potential killer! Like Begets Like - both good and bad. You have to know what you are doing! And even then you can screw up!

Thank you ALL for your participation on this thread. I appreciate it!

DOC HARRIS
 
SEC":16ypbfn4 said:
While I do agree with Doc, there is some evidence that to having 6807 to many times in a pedigree causes some problems. I am not sure that it's a certain number. It's interesting if he was used intensely but one generation further away if it would make a difference or not.

What are your concerns with close breeding to 6807? SC, Frame size, Feet, Sheath, Hair?
 
Nobody ever mentions the Nichols Farms cattle but they've been pretty useful cattle over the years for us. They are a bit plain looking and would never win a show but they are sound and don't milk themselves out of house and home. Any Canadians that might have some Nichols Landmark L56 semen I'd trade some CA Future Direction straight across for it. One of the biggest mistakes I ever made was selling an L56 son I had to help a neighbor out of a bull wreck. I just shipped a 16 year old daughter of him last week that still had perfect feet-her Nichols Performa son is out breeding cows right now for me.
 
You are right NR, the Nichols cattle have proven to be decent. I have a 13 year old granddaughter of Landmark and would take a 100 of her for a herd.
 
Northern Rancher:

I agree with you on the Nichols cattle. I just shipped a 16 year old double bred granddaughter of F Nichols Promise N5 and still have a sixteen year old daughter of Nichols Sunrise P1 in the herd. I owned a pretty good son of Heavy Duty. I have never had any foot or udder problems with any Nichols cattle but they could stand a bit more milk. Do you have any Promise, Sunrise or Heavy Duty bred cattle?
 
Nichols Performa D162 is the bull I have in mind. He is the original "Performa". He doesn't go back to Heavy Duty. He is a son of Formula U193 who is a son of Trademark S1 who is a son of Landmark L56. His dam is a daughter of Hoff Bold Scotch S C 491. From what I have heard, Performa is a good, moderate bull. This is a bit surprising given the high mature weight and height EPDs of his sire (Formula U193) and maternal grandsire (Hoff Bold Scotch). Surprises are what make cattle breeding fun? :D
 
That's the bull that I used-Fraser's have several daughters off him that are going to be longtime producers. I sold them my last 40 straws of semen I had-I'm sure they'll make some bulls for me with it.
 
Come to think of it, Whermann Angus bred some of there females that are in the 2007 Fall Female sale to a Nichols bull, don't know the name of that bull though.

THG
 
THG":2ekaps9w said:
KMacGinley":2ekaps9w said:
Matt, I think he has quite a few daughters in production, he was born in the nineties.
That doesn't mean anything.

THG

Well in his case, since he is very widely used I am afraid it does mean something, since he has 880 daughters in 199 herds. :D
 
KMacGinley":1q23x0ba said:
THG":1q23x0ba said:
KMacGinley":1q23x0ba said:
Matt, I think he has quite a few daughters in production, he was born in the nineties.
That doesn't mean anything.

THG

Well in his case, since he is very widely used I am afraid it does mean something, since he has 880 daughters in 199 herds. :D
Yes I seen that when I looked him up. So, I guess that he should be a more proven bull.

THG
 
KMacGinley":xvclur3u said:
Sorry KMacGinley, I typed that wrong. My fault. What I meant to say was, is that since he is so proven (8180 that is), that I guess that the EPDs aren't lying and that maybe some of his daughters don't milk as well as others.

THG
 
Top