Pedigrees AND Phenotype!

[DOC HARRIS]

With the Upcoming Fall Sale season looming in our mailboxes, containing Sale Catalogs brimming with incredible pictures of Cows, Calves, Heifers ( bred and open ), and Bulls, I have spent a few days (and evenings as well) perusing these colorful bits of literature, which reveal generous displays of bovine pulchritude! Having engaged in this activity for many years, by astute observation, one begins to see a trend developing in the appearance of the phenotype of the seedstock available for sale this year. My particular attention pertains to the Angus breed, however I imagine that other breeds are experiencing similar phenomena.

PHENOTYPE seems to be improving overall! Inasmuch as genetic inheritance factors dictate the appearance of phenotypic characteristics, I have spent some time in searching the pedigrees of many of the animals whose pictures display and denote marked improvement in their structural appearance.

Those of the readers of these posts are aware of my feeling of judging cattle by "pictures" - however, from a 'pictorial' standpoint there is an obvious improvement in the musculature and "BEEF" appearance of the sale cattle compared to those in past recent years. And it is not just body conditioning and/or fat that catches the eye!

I would be interested in hearing the opinions of others in this regard - - AND, more specifically - - WHAT (or WHO) is responsible for the genetic changes! Hint: You must know Angus pedigrees - for therein lies the answer.

JUST MY OPINION. I am not seeking to start a WAR here.

DOC HARRIS

 

[KMacGinley]

Doc: you must be getting different catalogs than I am.

 

[Angus In Texas]

Taking a stab at answering your question Doc, I would have to say in terms of cow families it would be the Ritas, Blackcaps, Forever Ladys and Blackbirds.... specific females from those families that stand out for musculature and "BEEF" appearance would be G A R Ext 614, G A R Precision 2536, SVF Forever Lady 57D, and Davis Yr Blackbird 558H. If you look at the lineup of bulls that have come from these cow families they are pretty powerful. Let me know if this is not what you had in mind.

 

[Brandonm2]

I agree Doc. I think people are paying more attention with their donor and their picture selection. Even lines I am not particularly fond of are finding that "centerfold" cow/heifer that looks like she will work and hold together for a long time....if you will keep putting enough groceries in her.

 

[SEC]

Finks catalogue is one that I would agree with. Though most of the genetics are the right kind they have used the lines that I dislike as well.


My thinking in these pedigrees of bulls that I don't really like is......

If a red gene can lie dormant and reappear after quite a few generations why couldn't the "bad" genes do the same thing?

 

[DOC HARRIS]

AngusInTexas and Brandonm2-

While I concur with both of you and your cogitations, I feel that you have overlooked THE genetic and PHENOTYPIC fundamentals of ONE SPECIFIC BULL - which, as the snowball gathered speed, became an "Avalanche of Change" in the selection protocols of Registered Angus Breeders just prior to the year 2000 (Y2K). Of course, I am NOT demeaning the importance of the "Cow Families" in Genetic improvement -but - in the opinions of those of you on the Board - what is the name of THAT bull?

DOC HARRIS

 

[Angus In Texas]

I'm stumped at the moment

 

[THG]

Taking a stab at answering your question Doc, I would have to say in terms of cow families it would be the Ritas, Blackcaps, Forever Ladys and Blackbirds.... specific females from those families that stand out for musculature and "BEEF" appearance would be G A R Ext 614, G A R Precision 2536, SVF Forever Lady 57D, and Davis Yr Blackbird 558H. If you look at the lineup of bulls that have come from these cow families they are pretty powerful. Let me know if this is not what you had in mind.

Thought you said Gardiner Angus cattle don't work in your neck of the woods? G A R Precision 2536 is one darn good donor cow for Wehrmann Angus. Also, the G A R EXT 614 and the 57D donor cows are also great females. I think that some of you need to look at other bigtime donor cows, like donor cows also from the Stevenson/Basin and Schaff Angus Valley ranches, they too have great donor cows and great cow families.

THG

 

[Angus In Texas]

It wasn't me that said Gardiner genetics didn't work in my neck of the woods..... I have some great cows that have G A R genectics in them.

 

[DOC HARRIS]

Let us not deviate from the original intent of the thread!

What is the name of .....THAT.....Bull?

DOC HARRIS

 

[THG]

It wasn't me that said Gardiner genetics didn't work in my neck of the woods..... I have some great cows that have G A R genectics in them.

I apologize.

THG

 

[THG]

Let us not deviate from the original intent of the thread!

What is the name of .....THAT.....Bull?

DOC HARRIS

Sorry DOC. I would also like to know the name of that bull myself?

THG

 

[ollie?]

878

 

[THG]

878

Ok, I think that you have chosen the right bull.

THG

 

[ga. prime]

Crossfire Hurricane?

 

[beef]

One of the "fixer" bulls I like is 6807. Not sure if that's the one you have in mind, but he's prevalent in a number of the recently publicized pedigrees.

 

[Northern Rancher]

Greatly improved camera technology and photoshop might have something to do with it lol. As for the name of 'THAT BULL' he is a myth for the most part. No one bull is the only one improving a breed as vast as the Angus one. It makes great showbarn and barn talk but really such a creature doesn't exist.

 

[ollie?]

Greatly improved camera technology and photoshop might have something to do with it lol. As for the name of 'THAT BULL' he is a myth for the most part. No one bull is the only one improving a breed as vast as the Angus one. It makes great showbarn and barn talk but really such a creature doesn't exist.

The creature he asked about certainly exists. He asked for a bull that he feels is one of the dominate bulls since 2000 that is siring phenotypically better cattle to him. He is posing a guessing question. Not making a statement that he's found the perfect bull. I not personally that fond of 878 because I think he lacks pounds but I still would guess that's the bull he's thinking of.

 

[Northern Rancher]

I'll beg to differ and leave it at that.

 

[DOC HARRIS]

OK! Well done, Class!

Ollie? - your choice of 878 is a good one - - but that is not what I had in mind, although he is one which I feel is a good selection - IF - that New Design "Funnel Butt" genetics can be diluted with a shot of Rito or Rita influence!

Beef - You are SMACK RIGHT ON! DHD Traveler 6807! Take recent catalogs (Limestone, Express, Ohlde, etc, etc.), thumb through the pages and LOOK at the pictures (I know - I know), and when you see a Cow, particularly, with an acceptable hind quarter and depth of flank - you will find either DHD Traveler 6807 or one of his sons in the pedigree! Coincidence?? N-O-O-O-T EXACTLY!! He is, Beef, a "fixer Bull for sure!

DOC HARRIS