Pasture walk

[kenny thomas]

We have 3-4 a year. Last one NRCS brought a rainfall simulator to show the difference in runoff and absorption with different grazing practices. Very interesting.

 

[cmf1]

Tomorrow we're going to a place that put in some Temple Grandin inspired pens, and does the MIG. They'll talk about a bunch more stuff too.

 

[mnmtranching]

I do a pasture walk almost everyday :cowboy: Never put on any commercial fertilizer. Don't need the county agent, vet, or anybody else to tell me the pastures health. Just my old trusty dog. 8)
SO? whats the big deal?
Millions and millions of acres of rangeland has never had fertilizer. Again what's the big deal?

 

[SRBeef]

Just went on a pasture walk put on by a local guy at his place and the NRCS. Very interesting rotational grazing system.

No fertilizer on his place in the last 15 years and no fly control to speak of. Very nice paddocks and looks like system works.
Average age for slaughter was 24 months and nothing over 30 months. He sells organic beef. Has lots of legumes seeded and it was very interesting.

Anyone else here do this?JHH

Isn't 24-30 months a bit old for an average age to slaughter? From what I have seen so far with my Herefords, they are ready for processing much sooner than that, maybe 14-15 months? And this is on grass no significant amounts of grain.

I interseeded some clover last year very successfully with a no till drill.

I am also not completely against using some commercial fertilizer. Just don't "guess" or apply "what the neighbors used". Do soil samples, take them in to the coop and see what you have.

Perhaps once you get pasture fertility up to where it needs to be you should not need more other than occasional lime. However I hate to see beginners get set against using some needed fertilizer then wonder why their cattle don't have enough to eat.

Much of the land in this country has been mined of fertility for many years. Cattle rotationally grazed don't take much off and put a lot back on but you need to know where you are starting from and establish a good base of fertility to begin with.

Excess thistles and weeds can be a sign of a fertility or pH imbalance. Just take some soil samples in to a coop and have them analyzed to see where you are at THEN you can see if some fertilizer is needed.

Some areas have specific shortages of trace items such as sulphur or boron or zinc or mag. etc. that if brought up to where they should be with a few pounds per acre can really improve pasture. And may never really improve by the cattle grazing alone. Make sure you ask for a trace element analysis on your soil tests also, not just N, P, K and pH.

jmho. Jim

 

[dun]

I do a pasture walk almost everyday :cowboy: Never put on any commercial fertilizer. Don't need the county agent, vet, or anybody else to tell me the pastures health. Just my old trusty dog. 8)
SO? whats the big deal?
Millions and millions of acres of rangeland has never had fertilizer. Again what's the big deal?

A pasture walk is more for exchanging ideas/information then it is to do with pasture health.

 

[cmf1]

Well I reckon if I knew everything about everything and had a talking dog,.. a pasture, or farm walk with other cattle folks would just be a reassuring moment with the "little brains" and a conformation of my ultra superiority amongst mere mortals.
Still, it could be a fun way for you to display your magnificence. :nod:

 

[ga. prime]

I do a pasture walk almost everyday :cowboy: Never put on any commercial fertilizer. Don't need the county agent, vet, or anybody else to tell me the pastures health. Just my old trusty dog. 8)
SO? whats the big deal??
Millions and millions of acres of rangeland has never had fertilizer. Again what's the big deal?

It's not a big deal. A vast increase in forage volume per acre can be attained with the use of fertilizer. This is economical in some situations that I don't think require explanation. That's the deal.

 

[TexasBred]

Ed, if you choose, follow the link to this story: http://www.grist.org/article/2009-08-07 ... ange-myth/
Grist is an environmental website (I bit my tongue and didn't say wacko-environmentalist) and frequently has posts attacking agriculture as we know it.
The link is to a post by a fellow described as a respected grass-fed producer. Read the comments below his post and notice how few people were convinced that grass fed beef can save the planet. Most of the comments follow the general trend "that's great, but you will be healthier if you go vegan and we won't have those cows farting greenhouse gas".
We can all hang together, or we will surely all hang separately.
If I meet someone who is specifically looking for a good grass-fed calf, I'll gladly send them your direction. But if I meet someone who is looking for a good steak, I'll tell them I personally prefer a bit of corn in the finishing ration and offer them a sample. I can't promise them eternal life. I can provide ingredients for an enjoyable, healthy meal.

:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:

 

[edrsimms]

Mr. Simms....plain and simple...I can't afford it regardless of how healthy it is. Are your prices sort of in line with these??

Forget all the health issues for a minute and look at it in this way:
I understand that all too well, Texasbred, that many people cant afford to buy it -- but then again many CAN.
The real question you should be asking yourself is:

Can I afford not to raise grass fed beef?

Back in the mid 60's thru the late 80's the general public just bought whatever the grocer threw in front of them, without much concern about where it came from or how it was raised. Since that time, the general public has become much more interested in what they eat and where it comes from -- this is due to a more educated general population and readily available information- the WWW. among others.

There will always be those people that will go to Wal-Mart and buy the cheapest beef they can find and that is fine-- they can have at it. Then there are those people that like the "idea" of Natural/Grass fed/ organic, blah blah, blah beef. They have more confidence in the local guy's grass fed beef than they do in the "Machines' Beef" IBP, etc..........

It has long been known that individual ranchers wont work together -- too independent and that is ok too, but your expectations shouldn't be set so high for an industry that "won't work together"


The basic interpretation of the grain fed enthusiast vs. the grassfed producer is:

The grain-fed producer supports the Machine( IBP ect....) and the

Grass-fed producer is the independent guy/gal out there making a better living without the backward influences of the Packing house Machine


I don't understand why you would support an industry ( grain fed beef) that has been throwing you (the beef cattle producer) under the bus daily since you began in the beef cattle business

When you get tired of taking it in the shorts , I believe we will see you raising grass fed beef too

 

[edrsimms]

thats the problem with the grass fed ind...everyone wants to make it into a gourmet or a specialty market when all we really need to do to make it work is to offer decent meat at the same or less than the stores..easy enuff for me..at 3$/lb i can make about 300 more than the best day at the markt and still keep half for myself.
the whole grass fed thing to me really needs to get into the reality of it..the biggest problem is finding people that can afford or can handle(freezerwise) and half a steer ...

This is an interesting post that I felt the need to respond to. Diesel, it is a "Specialty Market" or Gourmet if you want to call it that. What you are dealing with as I just said in an earlier post is a much more interested general public of not only what they are eating, but how the product they are buying was produced. When they read the research on grassfed beef vs grainfed beef they want the grassfed product over the grain fed---period and they are then willing to pay more for it.

Instead of the $3/lb wouldn't you rather be getting $10? I guess there could possibly be some people out there that would rather only make 3, but I don't know any around me at least.

Another very important factoid you grain fed enthusiasts have grossly overlooked is processing. The Machine (what I affectionally call the Packers e.g. IBP, Cargill. Smithfield, Swift, National Beef) Wet Age your/their beef, which is basically kill, hang 7-10 days, box in vapor-locked bags and shipped to your grocery (supposedly to finish aging in a reefer truck on the way to your local IGA or Piggly Wiggly).

Smaller Grass fed operations can do it differently because we dont have the volume IBP does--thank God and dont need the entire nation of beef consumers to make a living. Dry Aging the traditional way is better period. I wont go into all of it here but you can Google It if you wish.
Anyway the Dry-Aged product is better, ask your grandfather! And adding that it is a grass fed product it is far better taste wise than what the machine tags and bags daily.
I guess the real question is why are you against a few individuals wantng to provide a better healthier product for a decent price as I dont see that 10 dollars a lb+ is asking too much for the gift of Health and well-being---do you?

 

[edrsimms]

Isn't 24-30 months a bit old for an average age to slaughter? From what I have seen so far with my Herefords, they are ready for processing much sooner than that, maybe 14-15 months? And this is on grass no significant amounts of grain. jmho Jim

Calves born in October -- Cows calves on winter rye until Feb

Cows calves on Clover FEB, MAR, APR and MAY until weaning Mid-May (Good steers are usually weaning in the low 700's).

Steers go on Millet in May, June, Jul, Aug, Sept 10th, where they normally gain 2.5+ lbs per day minimum and weigh in as yealrings at #1125

Steers finished on Perennial Peanut grazing until first frost Oct 15th (weigh in at #1250)

then fed Perennial Peanut baleage to High Choice Low Prime YG 2----------------- about 13 to 14 months of age

and the only difference is you get $3 per pound on a good day and I get > $10. Ed

 

[TexasBred]

Can I afford not to raise grass fed beef?

Back in the mid 60's thru the late 80's the general public just bought whatever the grocer threw in front of them, without much concern about where it came from or how it was raised. Since that time, the general public has become much more interested in what they eat and where it comes from -- this is due to a more educated general population and readily available information- the WWW. among others.

I guess I can afford it...been doing it all my life and have done quite well, thank you. As for the comment about the "general public", if their were true you couldn't raise enough grass fed beef.....the general public buys "MEAT". They don't know what kind of animal it came from, were it came from or what it ate. They want cheap food and on occasion they splurge and buy a couple of ribeyes. You enjoy your grass fed beef...I want mine grain fed and a good amount of "FAT" on it. I'm sure that fat and Garrett's Snuff killed both my grandparents at age 98 and 100 respectively !!!! Does it everytime. :nod:

 

[edrsimms]

Ed, if you choose, follow the link to this story: http://www.grist.org/article/2009-08-07 ... ange-myth/

If I meet someone who is specifically looking for a good grass-fed calf, I'll gladly send them your direction. But if I meet someone who is looking for a good steak, I'll tell them I personally prefer a bit of corn in the finishing ration and offer them a sample. I can't promise them eternal life. I can provide ingredients for an enjoyable, healthy meal.

I am not interested in the information about some environmentalist whackos, but I can appreciate the humor in it.

There is no reason to be against the grass-fed producer and I can understand with the media hype that your grain-fed product has lost some of its' luster over the past decade. Again, no reason to be against the producer that is supplying a better product and instead meet the challenge and join the few that are putting a healthier product on the tables of many.
I believe my product is better for the following reasons:
1. I have less inputs to my entire operation than you do: no fertilizer, no herbicides, very little hay ever needed
2. I have better cattle than you do is my assumption because all my calves wean in excess of 700 lbs at 7 mos-- for the past 2 decades
3. I can finish my steers in 13 to 14 months and never see a feed bucket-- I dont buy feed
4. My steers grade High Choice to Low Prime YG 2 (in 13 mos) when yours are probably low Choice YG 2 at best, which is common
5. I dont need a HCWt of 800 lbs to break even, since I get more $$ on my retail cuts etc....
6. I have a healthier product than you do there is no doubt in my mind (just Google: grassfed beef and Omega 3 fatty acids)
7. I dont Wet Age my beef like 95% of the local kill floors do as does the Machine ( IBP/Cargill etc)
8. Dry Aging Process is much better --ask your grandfather.........

I think I am done with this post for now......

Ed

 

[john250]

I dont see that 10 dollars a lb+ is asking too much for the gift of Health and well-being---do you?

:roll: :roll: :roll:

 

[edrsimms]

I guess I can afford it...been doing it all my life and have done quite well, thank you. As for the comment about the "general public", if their were true you couldn't raise enough grass fed beef.....the general public buys "MEAT". They don't know what kind of animal it came from, were it came from or what it ate. They want cheap food and on occasion they splurge and buy a couple of ribeyes. You enjoy your grass fed beef...I want mine grain fed and a good amount of "FAT" on it. I'm sure that fat and Garrett's Snuff killed both my grandparents at age 98 and 100 respectively !!!! Does it everytime. :nod:

Well Tex --that is just it --- Dont have enough to sell -- they buy it up so fast. As far as the masses wanting cheap food and not caring what it ate or where it came from -- your are living in the past my friend -- they do care and they want to know and for the first time in your life, very soon, you will be held responsible for what you raise --- as soon as EID comes on full force and it's coming. You will change or be driven out by the very masses that you thought only wanted cheap food and didnt care where it came from.

As far as FAT goes I am going to look up a video link for you about one of the first packing houses to begin slaughtering cattle (when film was available) in the early 1900's .... I imagine after one view of that video you will put the FAT issue away for good. Or you can amble around in the dark some more in hopes that it will all go away.

Ed

 

[john250]

There is no reason to be against the grass-fed producer and I can understand with the media hype that your grain-fed product has lost some of its' luster over the past decade. Again, no reason to be against the producer that is supplying a better product and instead meet the challenge and join the few that are putting a healthier product on the tables of many.
I believe my product is better for the following reasons:
1. I have less inputs to my entire operation than you do: no fertilizer, no herbicides, very little hay ever needed
2. I have better cattle than you do is my assumption because all my calves wean in excess of 700 lbs at 7 mos-- for the past 2 decades
3. I can finish my steers in 13 to 14 months and never see a feed bucket-- I dont buy feed
4. My steers grade High Choice to Low Prime YG 2 (in 13 mos) when yours are probably low Choice YG 2 at best, which is common
5. I dont need a HCWt of 800 lbs to break even, since I get more $$ on my retail cuts etc....
6. I have a healthier product than you do there is no doubt in my mind (just Google: grassfed beef and Omega 3 fatty acids)
7. I dont Wet Age my beef like 95% of the local kill floors do as does the Machine ( IBP/Cargill etc)
8. Dry Aging Process is much better --ask your grandfather.........

I think I am done with this post for now......

Ed

Ed, you ARE the man! That is amazing performance from a set of cattle. :shock: And all without purchased inputs.

 

[edrsimms]

I dont see that 10 dollars a lb+ is asking too much for the gift of Health and well-being---do you?

:roll: :roll: :roll:

Good Post from another poor soul that has been thrown under the bus

 

[edrsimms]

Ed, you ARE the man! That is amazing performance from a set of cattle. :shock: And all without purchased inputs

Well my intention was to get some of you people to open your eyes and be independent of the big Packers that have been throwing you under the bus since you began in the cattle business. What I see is a whole industry made up of individuals just like you that look forward to every year the big Packers throw you under the bus.

Someone has instilled in your mind that grain-fed beef is the best and you court it like a used car salesman courts any potential buyer. You are the Clark Griswald's of the cattle industry. Those very Packers that buy and process your calves are laughing at you every year-

All I am saying is why can't you be a tad more independent.
How many meat consumers do you need to make a good living>? IBP needs the whole USA and beyond--

and what do you get as the producer? >> (thrown under the Bus)

Especially if you are a small producer (under 500 cows) i believe you should be doing grass-fed beef or if you feel the need to use a little grain at finishing as my good friend TexasBred does -- they have a special designation for you called
"Natural"

LOL

Ed
I gotta go check a few cows --I cant be here all day answering posts.........

 

[HerefordSire]

I am Clark Griswald's son. :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

Daddy told me to ask you how we could get back at those sale barn buyers stealing my red white faced cattle.

 

[TexasBred]

Well Tex --that is just it --- Dont have enough to sell -- they buy it up so fast. As far as the masses wanting cheap food and not caring what it ate or where it came from -- your are living in the past my friend -- they do care and they want to know and for the first time in your life, very soon, you will be held responsible for what you raise --- as soon as EID comes on full force and it's coming. You will change or be driven out by the very masses that you thought only wanted cheap food and didnt care where it came from.

As far as FAT goes I am going to look up a video link for you about one of the first packing houses to begin slaughtering cattle (when film was available) in the early 1900's .... I imagine after one view of that video you will put the FAT issue away for good. Or you can amble around in the dark some more in hopes that it will all go away.

Ed to each his on. You enjoy your grassfed beef...wonderful...same for your customers. The day you and all the other grass fed operations sell more beef than WalMart I'll agree with your unfounded comment that 'Most of the general public' prefer your stuff or something to that effect. People buy what they can afford. Some live on baloney only. Some like you get the "prime stuff". Like organic gardening, you won't ever feed the world with certified grass fed beef but like eating a roast off a bear's butt....I'd try it once. It might be good but would have to be "exceptional" in every way for me to eat it day in and day out. Keep the packing plant film. I've seen enough blood and guts in my lifetime.

By the way...do you eat grass fed pork as well?? ;-)