Organics, A Load Of Fertilizer?

[john250]

Here is a link from Univ. of Michigan.
http://www.ns.umich.edu/htdocs/releases ... hp?id=5936
Both sides of this argument have alot of fodder to throw. Time will settle this one. If the GMO crowd doesn't goof things up first.

All this says is that state of the art organic is better than what 3rd worlders are doing now. It isn't a comparison of organic to high yield farming.

http://www.news.cornell.edu/stories/Jul ... r.ssl.html

The Cornell "study" is just a review of literature from the Rodale Institute, a leading organic ADVOCATE.

Rodale Institute is a research farm. Someone has to do it. Who paid the Land grant college that tested the products you use on your place?

I view ALL research with a healthy skepticism.
I subscribed to Rodale's magazine for several years in my younger days. I found a few things I could use, but I just don't buy the premise that modern ag is bad.
Roundup herbicide did more for soil conservation in this country than anything which has come from the Rodale Institute. Yes, Monsanto is a very big corp. I don't think big corps are automatically evil.
I grew up with a gooseneck hoe in my hands and a FarmAll Cub with a cultivator. If you'll pay the shipping I'll send you the hoes, no charge.

 

[Tegerian]

What I would say is delusional is thinking that industial agriculture that counts on cheap energy is going to be able to feed the world in the future.

So the Organic folks are going to start shipping their products via wagon train? That should be interesting. ;-)

We can almost always do things better, less harmful chemicals, renewable energy and in general more efficient ways to operate are all great things to look at, but regressing is not the answer.

 

[KMacGinley]

No, actually what is going to happen, is more locally grown and consumed food. At some point the economics will dictate it. Already the economics of Natural food with no chemicals and no artificial additives is the fastest growing segment of the food industry. Astronomical growth actually. I am not talking about regressing, I am talking about progressing.

 

[Bluestem]

Here is a link from Univ. of Michigan.
http://www.ns.umich.edu/htdocs/releases ... hp?id=5936
Both sides of this argument have alot of fodder to throw. Time will settle this one. If the GMO crowd doesn't goof things up first.

All this says is that state of the art organic is better than what 3rd worlders are doing now. It isn't a comparison of organic to high yield farming.

http://www.news.cornell.edu/stories/Jul ... r.ssl.html

The Cornell "study" is just a review of literature from the Rodale Institute, a leading organic ADVOCATE.

Rodale Institute is a research farm. Someone has to do it. Who paid the Land grant college that tested the products you use on your place?

I view ALL research with a healthy skepticism.
I subscribed to Rodale's magazine for several years in my younger days. I found a few things I could use, but I just don't buy the premise that modern ag is bad.
Roundup herbicide did more for soil conservation in this country than anything which has come from the Rodale Institute. Yes, Monsanto is a very big corp. I don't think big corps are automatically evil.
I grew up with a gooseneck hoe in my hands and a FarmAll Cub with a cultivator. If you'll pay the shipping I'll send you the hoes, no charge.

Never did get Rodale's mag. Read it if I saw it laying around someplace. I would not call modern ag bad, just flawed. Someone has been drinking roundup koolaid. Here is more smoke. http://www.psrast.org/subeqau.htm
Studies have also shown that roundup kills beneficial bacteria in the soil, thus giving fungus the upper hand. So now the farmer has a fungus problem. I wonder where he could get some fungicide. Same manufacturer as roundup?
I'd take you up on the hoes, but I'd rather have the Cub. I could use it in parades.

 

[Tegerian]

No, actually what is going to happen, is more locally grown and consumed food. At some point the economics will dictate it. Already the economics of Natural food with no chemicals and no artificial additives is the fastest growing segment of the food industry. Astronomical growth actually. I am not talking about regressing, I am talking about progressing.

As the "cool" product of the moment I am sure it's growing pretty fast, but what percentage is it of the entire market and is that growth sustainable?

 

[Bluestem]

No, actually what is going to happen, is more locally grown and consumed food. At some point the economics will dictate it. Already the economics of Natural food with no chemicals and no artificial additives is the fastest growing segment of the food industry. Astronomical growth actually. I am not talking about regressing, I am talking about progressing.

Progressing at a very rapid rate. New findings daily. Some of it is actually starting to cross over to "modern ag".

 

[Brandonm2]

I think it makes more sense to have some third worlders doing all the labor at 50 cents an hour than to pay for overpriced American labor. I think in future decades we are going to see less and less of our food grown locally. Farm exports used to go a long way toward balancing our trade. Not any more. Agricultural imports were 92% of the size of our total agricultural exports last year. The U.S. should be a net food importer given current trends and our population growth rate in just a few years.

http://www.ers.usda.gov/data/FATUS/monthlysummary.htm

 

[Beef11]

What happened to growing a significant amount of ones own food? A 1/4 acre garden will put a dent in the feed bill a beef and hog in the freezer will take out another big chunk. How many people still do that? Me you and a couple others? The reason store bought produce isn't as good is because it was picked green and ripened in shipment also they grow varieties that produce big produce and not flavorful produce.

 

[cmjust0]

Since the oft maligned Wal-Mart is now the nation's leading retailer of "organic" products, and since USDA gave itself the sole authority to define and authorize the use of the word "organic" under penalty of law, I personally feel like it's pretty safe to say that "organic" really doesn't mean anything anymore.

Shouldn't come as any real surprise that monocultural, "USDA Organic" labeled, mass produced products SUCK.

What doesn't suck is a home grown, vine ripened tomato or an ear of sweet corn straight from the garden.. Folks are starting to realize that they don't necessarily have to move out to the sticks and take up farming to have access to that sort of food.. All they have to do is find someone who grows it and buy it directly from them. Those kinds of consumers are placing more and more emphasis on their personal connection with the actual producer than they are some "USDA Organic" rubber stamp..

Local is the new organic.

 

[Bluestem]

Since the oft maligned Wal-Mart is now the nation's leading retailer of "organic" products, and since USDA gave itself the sole authority to define and authorize the use of the word "organic" under penalty of law, I personally feel like it's pretty safe to say that "organic" really doesn't mean anything anymore.

Shouldn't come as any real surprise that monocultural, "USDA Organic" labeled, mass produced products SUCK.

What doesn't suck is a home grown, vine ripened tomato or an ear of sweet corn straight from the garden.. Folks are starting to realize that they don't necessarily have to move out to the sticks and take up farming to have access to that sort of food.. All they have to do is find someone who grows it and buy it directly from them. Those kinds of consumers are placing more and more emphasis on their personal connection with the actual producer than they are some "USDA Organic" rubber stamp..

Local is the new organic.

You are 100% right. The USDA will also be regulating the term Grassfed. Its watered down. Won't be 100% grassfed anymore. Some of us are looking for a new term. I'm thinking "Pasture fed".

 

[Brandonm2]

What happened to growing a significant amount of ones own food? A 1/4 acre garden will put a dent in the feed bill a beef and hog in the freezer will take out another big chunk. How many people still do that? Me you and a couple others? The reason store bought produce isn't as good is because it was picked green and ripened in shipment also they grow varieties that produce big produce and not flavorful produce.

Fewer and fewer people live in country subdivisions where there are no regs. Most of them live in covenanted subdivisions where the covenants or the neighborhoood association prevents them by law from digging up the sod to grow squash. I know people who have gotten citations for their kid leaving the tricycle in the front yard. They would be sued ten ways from sunday for anything more than a patio tomato plant. And most citys don't allow you to have hogs in the city limits even if you had the acreage for them and they were no nuisance to anyone. There are over 300 million people in the U.S. and the overwhelming majority of them are completely dependent on somebody else producing their food for them and getting it to them in their local store or McDonalds.

 

[dun]

It's sure going to suck when all that is availbale is locally grown stuff. One kind of apple, no nanners or citrus, tomatos only availble for a coouple of months, very little fresh corn or veggies.
Intersting concept. I'm not a big fan of progress, but sometimes it is and improvment. I have to go milk this evening, I can't imagine 50 plus head milked by hand. Cause after all, that evil elctricty is part of the progress that should be thrown out as being unsustainable

 

[Jim62]

Has anyone ever tried to eat "grassfed" beef?

 

[Bluestem]

Has anyone ever tried to eat "grassfed" beef?

Had some for lunch. Will have some for dinner. What would you like to know? http://cattletoday.com/photos/showphoto ... puser=3269

 

[Bluestem]

It's sure going to suck when all that is availbale is locally grown stuff. One kind of apple, no nanners or citrus, tomatos only availble for a coouple of months, very little fresh corn or veggies.
Intersting concept. I'm not a big fan of progress, but sometimes it is and improvment. I have to go milk this evening, I can't imagine 50 plus head milked by hand. Cause after all, that evil elctricty is part of the progress that should be thrown out as being unsustainable

Actually, It,electricity, could be sustainable. I'm in the process of designing a new house using windmills for power. First stage will charge batteries, excess power will heat water, any excess beyond that might be used to compress air. Power company wants over $20,000 to run lines. No thanks.

 

[dun]

It's sure going to suck when all that is availbale is locally grown stuff. One kind of apple, no nanners or citrus, tomatos only availble for a coouple of months, very little fresh corn or veggies.
Intersting concept. I'm not a big fan of progress, but sometimes it is and improvment. I have to go milk this evening, I can't imagine 50 plus head milked by hand. Cause after all, that evil elctricty is part of the progress that should be thrown out as being unsustainable

Actually, It,electricity, could be sustainable. I'm in the process of designing a new house using windmills for power. First stage will charge batteries, excess power will heat water, any excess beyond that might be used to compress air. Power company wants over $20,000 to run lines. No thanks.

Not everyone has the wind, water or sun to generate their own.

 

[Bluestem]

It's sure going to suck when all that is availbale is locally grown stuff. One kind of apple, no nanners or citrus, tomatos only availble for a coouple of months, very little fresh corn or veggies.
Intersting concept. I'm not a big fan of progress, but sometimes it is and improvment. I have to go milk this evening, I can't imagine 50 plus head milked by hand. Cause after all, that evil elctricty is part of the progress that should be thrown out as being unsustainable

Actually, It,electricity, could be sustainable. I'm in the process of designing a new house using windmills for power. First stage will charge batteries, excess power will heat water, any excess beyond that might be used to compress air. Power company wants over $20,000 to run lines. No thanks.

Not everyone has the wind, water or sun to generate their own.

Think outside the box. http://www.cattlenetwork.com/Content.as ... tID=160487

 

[cmjust0]

It's sure going to suck when all that is availbale is locally grown stuff. One kind of apple, no nanners or citrus, tomatos only availble for a coouple of months, very little fresh corn or veggies.

Might get a little boring, but do you reckon all these ads we see for Prilosec and Zantac might just have a little something to do with having unfettered, 24/7 access to exotic and/or totally-out-of-season foods?

I kinda think it might..

Maybe what people need is to get a little bored with their meals and get a little excited about....well, pretty much anythng else.

Intersting concept. I'm not a big fan of progress, but sometimes it is and improvment. I have to go milk this evening, I can't imagine 50 plus head milked by hand. Cause after all, that evil elctricty is part of the progress that should be thrown out as being unsustainable

I don't think electricity is evil.. I don't necessarily think it's sustainable, either..

Not sure why you're linking evil with unsustainable..?

 

[dun]

It's sure going to suck when all that is availbale is locally grown stuff. One kind of apple, no nanners or citrus, tomatos only availble for a coouple of months, very little fresh corn or veggies.
Intersting concept. I'm not a big fan of progress, but sometimes it is and improvment. I have to go milk this evening, I can't imagine 50 plus head milked by hand. Cause after all, that evil elctricty is part of the progress that should be thrown out as being unsustainable

Actually, It,electricity, could be sustainable. I'm in the process of designing a new house using windmills for power. First stage will charge batteries, excess power will heat water, any excess beyond that might be used to compress air. Power company wants over $20,000 to run lines. No thanks.

Not everyone has the wind, water or sun to generate their own.

Think outside the box. http://www.cattlenetwork.com/Content.as ... tID=160487

I sure hope the technology and safety has been drasticly improved since the 80s. I haven;t messed with it since then, but the amount of work involved with creating methane other then from a feedlot or dairy is awfully tough. I pasture the cows, I'm not about to trail around picking up cow pies to keep the digester going.

 

[dun]

It's sure going to suck when all that is availbale is locally grown stuff. One kind of apple, no nanners or citrus, tomatos only availble for a coouple of months, very little fresh corn or veggies.

Might get a little boring, but do you reckon all these ads we see for Prilosec and Zantac might just have a little something to do with having unfettered, 24/7 access to exotic and/or totally-out-of-season foods?

I kinda think it might..

Maybe what people need is to get a little bored with their meals and get a little excited about....well, pretty much anythng else.

Intersting concept. I'm not a big fan of progress, but sometimes it is and improvment. I have to go milk this evening, I can't imagine 50 plus head milked by hand. Cause after all, that evil elctricty is part of the progress that should be thrown out as being unsustainable

I don't think electricity is evil.. I don't necessarily think it's sustainable, either..

Not sure why you're linking evil with unsustainable..?

The link is progress is evil. Therefore anything that helps with progress is evil.