Opinions on balance or Low BW

[HOSS]

I am doing research on what bull will best fit my program. I have settled on a homo black Gelbvieh.

My current herd is mostly BA and RA females with a couple of BA X Herf. I have equal numbers of heifers and cows and all are 5 to 6 mos. bred to my old RA bull.

I will be purchasing more heifers in the coming days. They will be either BA or RA.

I am looking for opinions on acceptable BW EPD's on a new bull. Since I will have new heifers coming in and several heifers with one calf should I get a balanced BW bull or try to stick with a very low BW bull for the new heifer's sake?

My gut is to stay balanced to try and keep the WW up a little because most of the low BW bulls I have looked into are questionable at best on the WW EPD's.

I hope I am clear on what I am asking. I sometimes have a tendency to muddy up the issue when I try to hard to explain it in writing.

 

[birdog]

Go with your gut. JMO

 

[Frankie]

I am doing research on what bull will best fit my program. I have settled on a homo black Gelbvieh.

My current herd is mostly BA and RA females with a couple of BA X Herf. I have equal numbers of heifers and cows and all are 5 to 6 mos. bred to my old RA bull.

I will be purchasing more heifers in the coming days. They will be either BA or RA.

I am looking for opinions on acceptable BW EPD's on a new bull. Since I will have new heifers coming in and several heifers with one calf should I get a balanced BW bull or try to stick with a very low BW bull for the new heifer's sake?

My gut is to stay balanced to try and keep the WW up a little because most of the low BW bulls I have looked into are questionable at best on the WW EPD's.

I hope I am clear on what I am asking. I sometimes have a tendency to muddy up the issue when I try to hard to explain it in writing.

If you're planning to use the bull for several years, I'd go for the "balanced" one. And get the heifers somewhere you can watch them at caving time. Or could you get them AI-ed to a calving ease bull?

The Angus Assn recommends using a bull with a BW EPD of no more than 3 on first calf heifers. Surely the Gelbvieh Assn has a similar recommendation? If you can't find a recommendation on the site, email or call someone at the assn for a BW EPD recommendation.

http://www.gelbvieh.org/

 

[KNERSIE]

go with balaced EPDs allround

 

[TB-Herefords]

Focus more on calving ease than birth weight. Light BW EPD's dont always mean calving ease. If you have plenty of money buy that high calving ease; low BW; high WW bull we all want. :lol2: The more balance the better. Dont forget heterosis you will recieve with a cross. That could effect either end. What do you know about the heifers you are buying? Do you know thier gentics at all?

 

[mtnman]

The more balance the better.

:?: :?: :?: :?: :?: :?: :?: :?: :?:

I really don't know what to say. More balance?

mtnman

 

[HOSS]

Focus more on calving ease than birth weight. Light BW EPD's dont always mean calving ease. If you have plenty of money buy that high calving ease; low BW; high WW bull we all want. :lol2: The more balance the better. Dont forget heterosis you will recieve with a cross. That could effect either end. What do you know about the heifers you are buying? Do you know thier gentics at all?

Heifers will be commercial BA and RA.

 

[Horseless]

I am doing research on what bull will best fit my program. I have settled on a homo black Gelbvieh.

My current herd is mostly BA and RA females with a couple of BA X Herf. I have equal numbers of heifers and cows and all are 5 to 6 mos. bred to my old RA bull.

I will be purchasing more heifers in the coming days. They will be either BA or RA.

I am looking for opinions on acceptable BW EPD's on a new bull. Since I will have new heifers coming in and several heifers with one calf should I get a balanced BW bull or try to stick with a very low BW bull for the new heifer's sake?

My gut is to stay balanced to try and keep the WW up a little because most of the low BW bulls I have looked into are questionable at best on the WW EPD's.

I hope I am clear on what I am asking. I sometimes have a tendency to muddy up the issue when I try to hard to explain it in writing.

My first opinion is that you maybe should reconsider the Black Gelbvieh. Maybe the breed is a little better now, but several years back they had a long way to go. The red seems to still have it, if you were looking for Gelbvieh. Your choices will be limited, just for the fact there is limited amount of quality and selection of black Gelbvieh. I like the idea of the balanced part. You can be very selective if you would stay with the angus or RA, because there is so many to choose from. If you are set on gelbvieh, the "reds" may have just what you are looking.

 

[DOC HARRIS]

I am doing research on what bull will best fit my program. I have settled on a homo black Gelbvieh.

My current herd is mostly BA and RA females with a couple of BA X Herf. I have equal numbers of heifers and cows and all are 5 to 6 mos. bred to my old RA bull.

I will be purchasing more heifers in the coming days. They will be either BA or RA.

I am looking for opinions on acceptable BW EPD's on a new bull. Since I will have new heifers coming in and several heifers with one calf should I get a balanced BW bull or try to stick with a very low BW bull for the new heifer's sake?

My gut is to stay balanced to try and keep the WW up a little because most of the low BW bulls I have looked into are questionable at best on the WW EPD's.

I hope I am clear on what I am asking. I sometimes have a tendency to muddy up the issue when I try to hard to explain it in writing.

-
Hoss-

My Opinion concerning your selection of acceptable BW EPD's on your new bull: I agree with your option of a "balanced" BW bull and NOT to stick with a very low BW bull for the new heifer's sakes.

Now to the operative word "balanced." The entire business of living and having a business is a process of "balance". We all know that. The usage that this word "balance" in the context being used here is attempting to gain a POSITIVE benefit on one side of the mating picture, while not losing ANOTHER benefit on the other.

A BALANCING act of selection protocols.

The whole trick is sort of "Hedging Your Bets" by getting as close to the optimum as possible with ALL traits with out screwing up something else. This is the approach some breeder's take when using "Single Trait Selection". Big mistake! Single trait selection will find you concentrating on low to moderate birth EPD's, and ignoring WW, YW, Milk EPD's, and possibly some of the 'functional' traits - such as skeletal structure, strong bone, feet and legs, mammary structure, body capacity and fleshing ability. Now it becomes a 'crap shoot', and that is what you are attempting to avoid with your present question to the Forum.

MY OPINION: I would hedge to the conservative side ALWAYS, rather than to go too far one way or the other. Your choice of settling on a Homo Black Gelbvieh is a wise one! I would try to stay between a BW of +1.8 - 2.3, and a WW of +39 - +48. It should go without saying that the other characteristics should be within "common sense" boundaries, along with a real good look and examination of the chosen bull's MAMA! Sometimes the Bull's MAMA can make the decision for you! See what kind of record and percentages she has!

Good Luck. Please keep us posted.

DOC HARRIS

 

[rkaiser]

Momma is the key. Always.

Only other advice would be to make sure the bull is straight and not a homo like you mentioned in your first post. ;-)

 

[HOSS]

Thanks DOC and all.

I plan to start "shopping" within a week or so. I have got the contact info for several breeders within a 2 hour drive. I plan to be selective on all traits. Docility is a must also. I won't have anything to do with a surly bull.

The plan is to keep the bull under our $2,500 budget. I think I should be able to get a decent bull that will improve my program for that price.

My last RA bull had a BW EPD of +2.1 and we had no problems with heifers. I am not sure how the Gelbvieh EPD compares to a Red Angus but I think there is a conversion chart somewhere.

I am still undecided on going with a young 18 to 24 month old or to try and find a 3+ year old. I got two neighbors with cattle and sometimes those youngsters want to spend more time tearing down fences and fighting than breeding. I will have to see how it goes.