Opinions needed?? Getting my feet wet.

[Backbone Ranch]

Murray Grey? I like everything I have read about them, but I'd like someone to point me in the direction to find a few heifers bred or open that's not half way across the country.

There are a handful of Murray Grey breeders in the north Texas and Oklahoma areas. However by the looks of it, there are several breeders in Arkansas.
http://murraygrey.org/mdirectory/arkansas/arkansas.html

Oklahoma Breeders: http://murraygrey.org/mdirectory/oklahoma/oklahoma.html

Texas Breeders: http://murraygrey.org/mdirectory/texas/texas.html

 

[WalnutCrest]

Walnut- Older cows may be the route I should take. Maybe just let them do their thing while letting me feel like I am important and have good managing skills, but learning and gaining experience all the while? As far as heifers go, I understand they can be a handful, a gamble, or whatever you want to call it, but how about buying from a reputable breeder? My chances of having problems have to diminish a considerable amount do they not? And please, I'm 100% not disagreeing, just prying for more. Thanks

I'm not Walnut, but I'll answer anyway. I wouldn't recommend anyone who's inexperienced with cattle to ever start with heifers. Getting them from a reputable breeder might decrease the chances of problems a little bit, but I still wouldn't do it if I were you.

+ bajillion

Get old cows who are easy going, work on your handling and management skills, learn what new calves are all about from cows who know what they're doing. Because they're older, you have a better chance to keep them on your place while you're fine tuning your fences and handling area. Etc. Etc. Etc.

When it's time for a bull, I'd encourage you to find a proven older producer who's still easy going.

Then, if you decide at some point these genetics aren't for you, go get what you want and introduce them to the herd, the newer (younger?) ones will learn what to do from the older ones you've had for a while (even if "for a while" is only a few months or so).

 

[t5j1h2]

Backbone- Thanks for the links. I have tried contacting a few here in AR with not a lot of success, but I have not tried them all. I actually emailed Backbone Ranch earlier today. Thanks a lot.

Walnut- Thanks for the advice. I still have some research to do as far as breed is concerned, but it appears that some older cows may make my experience much better.

 

[bbirder]

Rafter S- I have really thought a lot about Brangus. I just had concerns about their temperament. But I am gathering that other than a wild animal here and there, it's all in how they are worked. I just have to learn the right methods of working them .

Lazy- I have been working towards buying some cattle for awhile now, so I have already been doing a lot of what you have mentioned. My wife and I are young so we are going little by little so not to acquire large amounts of debt in our pursuit of this dream. We have almost paid off our 70ac that we purchased in 2012. We own a small 10ac hay meadow, that shares a property line with my inlaws 40ac that they run dairy goats on and cut hay off of. I do need to focus on some fencing, and working facilities are a must. The inlaws use to run a few cows(~10) so they have a chute and head gate but it is set up poorly now that things on their farm have been goat proofed for the past 20 years.

T5, Glad to see your post about the relatives and adjoining property. At least you're not coming out to the "country" in your suit to admire your cattle. it seems like you may have someone to lean on for advice and help. You already have the will to work hard and succeed. You have half the battle won. Just don't expect to get rich in dollars. It can be very rewarding in self satisfaction if that's what you want. It helps to have a partner that supports you. Good Luck!

When I started, I asked my wife's old uncle who knew cattle backwards and forwards, but couldn't read or write what kind of cattle I should buy. He responded and I'll never forget this, "Buy the kind you like because you will take care of them, and they will do better."

I still think he was right! :2cents:

 

[gizmom]

t5

Looks like your getting some very good advise. From what you have said you like I think I would recommend going with the Brangus. Your getting the ear you like and you could put a Herford bull on them and have some money making black baldies for sure. Like I said I have seen some great recommendations. One post was about facilities and I couldn't agree more, nothing worse than needing to get a cow up to help her and not having the equipment in place to do it, been there done that so know how bad it can be. You don't have to spend a fortune but you do need the basics, a way to restrain an animal could mean the difference in a live one or a dead one. Doc is right have a plan before you spend the $. Sure wish I would have had a site like this back when we were starting, we could have saved ourselves a bunch of time and money.

gizmom

 

[t5j1h2]

bbird- My inlaws are very good to help if we ever needed it. Not really into cattle other than a calf to butcher every year, but always willing to lend a hand. The work ethic is not a problem, I am going to put the in the effort or I'm not going to do it. That's just how I'm made. As far as getting rich, we both have good careers that we plan on retiring from, so I guess we are aiming more towards lifestyle, self satisfaction, and obviously a profit at some point if things work out. I think I would like chewing the fat with your uncle inlaw.

Giz- Seems like Brangus has gotten the most votes thus far. I am going to do some more thinking and studying on things before I pull the trigger, but I don't have any choice but to consider what you guys have recommended. As I stated, the facilities I have access to are def. usable, but could stand to be redone with some thoughtful planning. This site is GOLD. Thanks for the input.

 

[gizmom]

t5
Being an Angus breeder it's sure hard for me to give that kind of advise but you were pretty clear that you liked some ear and Brangus is as close to Angus as your going to get and still have some ear. I wish you the best of luck as you move forward, you may never get rich in this business, but you will meet some of the best folks that walk this earth. I have never regretted one minute that my boys were raised having to do chores, they have grown into men that aren't afraid of hard work. We got involved with the Alabama BCIA and that has been very beneficial to us, they offer some great programs every year if your state has a BCIA program I would sure recommend checking into it, get involved with your local cattlemen's association they also offer some great programs to help you as you build your herd. Find a mentor in your area that you can call and talk to and build a relationship with your vet they are valuable assets.

gizmom

 

[Jessica06]

I absolutely agree with not starting out with heifers. We did, 80+ of them, and had 25% bred after the first breeding season. And I have a degree in this stuff! There were a lot of other factors that played into that outcome, but we knew better. We like to call that day "Rock Bottom." That being said, registered breeders are a good place to look for bred cows. A lot of cows get culled for things that have no impact on her raising a calf, and a lot of those guys get them almost too gentle. And you know that those cows have been taken care of. Cattlerange.com is also really good. The people that sell on there are legit, and if nothing else you can get an idea on where the market is for the kind of cows you want to buy.

 

[greybeard]

I think everybody should have 1 bred heifer in their 'starter herd' just to keep it real and avoid complacency that comes with keeping an bunch of older gentle cows.. I'm only 1/2 kidding about this.

Ricebeltrancher said: I absolutely agree with not starting out with heifers. We did, 80+ of them, and had 25% bred after the first breeding season

20 bred heifers would sure be a teaching moment if nothing else. Did you have any hair left on your head at all that 1st season?

 

[t5j1h2]

Ricebelt- thanks for the advice. I will take a look at cattlerange.com. I have been there quite a bit but now I have different things to look for. Blame it on my own ignorance but I would always just look at the heifer sections of each breed.

When you all say "older cows" are you referring to anything but a heifer? Or are we talking 6,7+ years old? In my situation I would think that as long as their health is good and they are still productive the more experienced the cow is, the better my experience will be?

 

[mattn]

I have had all kinds of cattle and I would have to say that for beginners, you may consider Hereford cows. Herefords are gentle and easy to work with. They are seldom the kind that want to fight when worked and most will respect you and your fences. You can then put your Black, eared bull on them and still get the kind of calves you want. My three boys walk amongst our Herefords with no fear. Just a thought. Good luck in whatever you decide!

 

[WalnutCrest]

Ricebelt- thanks for the advice. I will take a look at cattlerange.com. I have been there quite a bit but now I have different things to look for. Blame it on my own ignorance but I would always just look at the heifer sections of each breed.

When you all say "older cows" are you referring to anything but a heifer? Or are we talking 6,7+ years old? In my situation I would think that as long as their health is good and they are still productive the more experienced the cow is, the better my experience will be?

I was meaning 7-10 years old.

There are some producers who sell anything older than (say) five or six each and every year. These proven gals out of solid herds can be had for a reasonable price. If you want any leads, I can ask around for you.

 

[Jessica06]

I think everybody should have 1 bred heifer in their 'starter herd' just to keep it real and avoid complacency that comes with keeping an bunch of older gentle cows.. I'm only 1/2 kidding about this.

Ricebeltrancher said: I absolutely agree with not starting out with heifers. We did, 80+ of them, and had 25% bred after the first breeding season

20 bred heifers would sure be a teaching moment if nothing else. Did you have any hair left on your head at all that 1st season?

It was rough. I think if you said we learned a lot that couple of years, it would be a huge understatement. It definitely tests your resolve! Can't be successful in cattle without the intestinal fortitude to get through the hard times.

 

[t5j1h2]

Matt- I kind of thought that more people would suggest Herefords. Everything I have read about them seems right in line with you experience with them. I may be wrong but around here it seems like Herefords can be had for a noticeable amount less than other breeds. Thanks for the suggestion.

Walnut- I thought that's what you were meaning. I just wanted to verify. When I get ready to sure enough pull the trigger I may take you up on your offer to ask around. Thanks a lot for all the advice.

 

[Dave]

Education cost. You will get a lot of the same education from a bunch of older cows that you would from a bunch of heifers and it won't cost you as much when you make a mistake. For my two cents I would look for older (even broken mouth) Hereford cows that if possible are bred to a black bull. They will cost you a lot less, generally be easier to handle, and BWF calves sell real well no matter where you are.

 

[ALACOWMAN]

Education cost. You will get a lot of the same education from a bunch of older cows that you would from a bunch of heifers and it won't cost you as much when you make a mistake. For my two cents I would look for older (even broken mouth) Hereford cows that if possible are bred to a black bull. They will cost you a lot less, generally be easier to handle, and BWF calves sell real well no matter where you are.

. Yep! Want to get in on the ground floor, and knock a home run...black baldies.. You won't go wrong..even the old hands started out with em, and decided they couldn't do any better...

 

[Workinonit Farm]

Education cost. You will get a lot of the same education from a bunch of older cows that you would from a bunch of heifers and it won't cost you as much when you make a mistake. For my two cents I would look for older (even broken mouth) Hereford cows that if possible are bred to a black bull. They will cost you a lot less, generally be easier to handle, and BWF calves sell real well no matter where you are.

:nod: :nod: :nod: :nod:

Good suggestion.

And because you would like some ear, and given your location, after your "new" cows have calved, you can then breed them to the bull that you researched & purchased (while biding your time with the already pregnant cows) that hs some % of Brahman in him or, you can AI to the bulls of your choice.

Just my added :2cents:

 

[wacocowboy]

I would suggest Beefmaster they are good mommas like Tigers but not as high headed. You can't go crazy yelling at them or run them but if you take it easy they take it easy. You can breed the Beefmaster to Char, Angus, Beefmaster, or Hereford bulls and get solid calves.

 

[Kingfisher]

Education cost. You will get a lot of the same education from a bunch of older cows that you would from a bunch of heifers and it won't cost you as much when you make a mistake. For my two cents I would look for older (even broken mouth) Hereford cows that if possible are bred to a black bull. They will cost you a lot less, generally be easier to handle, and BWF calves sell real well no matter where you are.

. Yep! Want to get in on the ground floor, and knock a home run...black baldies.. You won't go wrong..even the old hands started out with em, and decided they couldn't do any better...

Couldn't do any better or ran out of time to do better?

 

[t5j1h2]

Thank all of you for the guidance and advice. It is very much appreciated. I have gathered that I should have a goal to work towards, good fences and facilities are worth the money and work, look for some older cows not heifers, don't plan on getting rich ha but it is a very rewarding in the way of self satisfaction, and about a 50/50 split between brangus and Herefords.

Oh and black baldies have stood the test of time.

Thanks y'all.