Opinions needed?? Getting my feet wet.

[t5j1h2]

Hey, folks. I think my last post on here was two years ago. I was new to cattle then and I'm new to cattle now. I guess I am more of a creeper than a participant to this forum. I have been wanting to get into the cattle business for awhile, just haven't took the plunge. Yea I have been around cattle most of my life, but haven't got to have tons of hands on experience. But all that is about to change and I am about to get my feet wet. Well maybe just my toes who knows.

Before, when I made a few post, my interest were in F1 tiger stripes. I still love looking at those brindle mommas, and everything I read says they are sure enough hard to beat when it comes to raising a calf in the southern part of the US, but I also get the impression from a lot of members posts that they are often times a little TOO maternal. I understand maternal traits are a good thing, but for a beginner aka myself, I'm a little sketchy on sinking my money into something that I can't handle.

What are y'all's opinions on breeds for someone just getting into the business? Located in SW Arkansas.

Brahman? Boy they sure are pretty, but without a name I don't foresee me being much of a seed stocks producer. That goes for any breed really, although I do think I would enjoy trying to raise some replacements of different breeds (tigers,black baldies, graymans, star 5, etc.).

Herefords? Docile,good temperament, and I may could produce some of my sought after Tiger stripes, but how about the management of the eye problems?

Angus? For some reason I'm just not on the Angus band wagon. But that doesn't mean my mind can't be changed, it's probably hard to beat a good set of them.

Composite breeds? Brangus/Santa gertrudis? I like both and I see where they can both make an argument. Do not know a lot about the SG though.

Murray Grey? I like everything I have read about them, but I'd like someone to point me in the direction to find a few heifers bred or open that's not half way across the country.

These are just a few that I have looked into and have researched, and I realize there are many more breeds out there to choose from. I may be ahead to just go with some good crossbred cows of no particular breed just to see what it's all about. Any input would be appreciated.

And BTW not that it makes any difference but I sure like some ear on cattle when I'm looking at them.

Thanks in advance for any thoughts.

 

[Kingfisher]

How many cows are you thinking about buying?

 

[DOC HARRIS]

Any beginner (new beginner or old beginner with "experience" or not) may benefit by going on any Search engine (Dog Pile, Google, etc,) and typing in the subject line "How to begin in the beef cattle business". The subjects presented will give you a great amount of choices to fit your needs.

Be aware of this fact: Being successful in the Beef Cattle BUSINESS (and I stress BUSINESS) requires a LOT of thought, planning, goal-setting, work, money, dedication and TIME. If you are not willing to give your everything to the above factors, plus learning the absolute factors of selecting and understanding the REASONS for selecting your very FIRST foundation breeding stock, - - - - - forget the entire process! Why? Because you will not be able to afford the time and money required to FAIL and start over again! You will have run out of years.

If you prepare the above protocols and Business Requirements in a half-baked manner, you will have a half-baked herd which will reward you with a half-baked return on your investment, disappointment, and you will ask yourself why you went to all this trouble in the first place!

If you really decide to be a beef cattle producer - - - - -DO IT RIGHT IN THE FIRST PLACE!

DOC HARRIS

 

[JWBrahman]

What you are calling "too maternal" is what some of us call "too smart" for the average dumb@$$ who wants to scream and holler with a pack of dogs when it is time to work cattle.

An F1 tigerstripe is a high class sophisticated woman who will make your world a better place if you treat her right. You swell up with testosterone and want to rough her up then she will give you the horn or hit the road.

 

[Jessica06]

You can't really go wrong with Brangus. Handles heat and humidity better than Angus, and easier to handle than a tigerstripe. Black calves that sell good anywhere, and cross well with a lot of different breeds. Chimney Rock is having their sale next month in Arkansas...would be a good opportunity to see what good Brangus really look like.

 

[WalnutCrest]

Nothing against anything you have listed, just a few more options (even if a couple of them are a little tougher to find):

South Poll
Mashona
Tuli
Aubrac

Being able to deal with the environmental problems in the south, plus raise a good calf for market. In addition to the ones listed above, these could be good options for you.

Good luck to you.

 

[WalnutCrest]

Oh, and another thing, visit the cattle before buying. Try to get cattle from an operation who manages them like you'll manage them out of an environment that is as similar to yours as possible.

If you're going to work cattle on foot and by hand, you probably don't want cattle who've only been worked from horseback.

If you're going to do a grass/hay only system, you probably don't want cattle who've been fed (creep or otherwise).

Etc.

 

[Rafter S]

You can't really go wrong with Brangus. Handles heat and humidity better than Angus, and easier to handle than a tigerstripe. Black calves that sell good anywhere, and cross well with a lot of different breeds. Chimney Rock is having their sale next month in Arkansas...would be a good opportunity to see what good Brangus really look like.

I'll add my vote to this suggestion.

 

[midTN_Brangusman]

From my experience the Brahmans can get high headed and in your pocket in a hurry! I would also recommend Brangus, but Im a little partial to the breed :cboy:

 

[bbirder]

Any beginner (new beginner or old beginner with "experience" or not) may benefit by going on any Search engine (Dog Pile, Google, etc,) and typing in the subject line "How to begin in the beef cattle business". The subjects presented will give you a great amount of choices to fit your needs.

Be aware of this fact: Being successful in the Beef Cattle BUSINESS (and I stress BUSINESS) requires a LOT of thought, planning, goal-setting, work, money, dedication and TIME. If you are not willing to give your everything to the above factors, plus learning the absolute factors of selecting and understanding the REASONS for selecting your very FIRST foundation breeding stock, - - - - - forget the entire process! Why? Because you will not be able to afford the time and money required to FAIL and start over again! You will have run out of years.

If you prepare the above protocols and Business Requirements in a half-baked manner, you will have a half-baked herd which will reward you with a half-baked return on your investment, disappointment, and you will ask yourself why you went to all this trouble in the first place!

If you really decide to be a beef cattle producer - - - - -DO IT RIGHT IN THE FIRST PLACE!

DOC HARRIS

+1
I think Doc makes some very good points. Re-read his post , think about it awhile , then go back and read it again. If you still want to be in the cattle business follow his advice. Good luck!

 

[t5j1h2]

Kingfisher- Around 10

Doc - I read your reply, and reread it. Your post describes really where I am at this point. I am just learning. All I have done is read, read, read about cattle, different operations, nutrition, etc. I stated that I was getting into the cattle business. That might have been a stretch. I want cattle experience. That is what I'm seeking, with the hope that I enjoy it as a lifestyle, and one that would hopefully make me a few $$ in time. But IF I do this, I want to do it right, not half hearted. I want quality. My wife and I both have good jobs and do not plan on quitting to be cattle ranchers. What we would like is to raise our little girl and maybe her brother or sister one day in an agricultural setting, gradually building a herd of 30-50 mommas while learning, implementing, and producing quality animals.

JW- I think " too maternal" is an expression I got from another topic. viewtopic.php?f=5&t=80382. I have helped work neighbors and friends cows, but I was far from ram rodding the operation. I guess I just read about them being worked the WRONG way, and with my lack of knowledge and experience, I'm afraid I may do it wrong and then have a few big problems I can't do anything with.

Ricebelt- I'll look into that Chimney Rock sale. My job sometimes keeps from weekend plans though. What about F1 brangus vs. a registered brangus? One better than the other? Hybrid vigor different?

Walnut- I'm all ears. I wouldn't say I'm particularly partial to certain breeds for the most part. I will look into the ones you mentioned. And thanks for the suggestions on buying cattle that have been managed in the same fashion I intend to manage.

Birder- Noted for sure. Thanks

 

[WalnutCrest]

Oh, another thing, if you're starting and are just trying to figure out what you're going to do ... buy some older cows who are late bred (i.e., 3rd trimester) from a reputable breeder.

You won't have any calving problems and all those old gals know what they're doing with their calves. This was one of the best decisions I made when I was getting started. Among other things, I bought seven 3rd trimester cows from 7-10yrs of age. Excellent decision. Avoid bred heifers; if you don't know what you're doing, no need to light yourself on fire.

 

[Rafter S]

Kingfisher- Around 10

Doc - I read your reply, and reread it. Your post describes really where I am at this point. I am just learning. All I have done is read, read, read about cattle, different operations, nutrition, etc. I stated that I was getting into the cattle business. That might have been a stretch. I want cattle experience. That is what I'm seeking, with the hope that I enjoy it as a lifestyle, and one that would hopefully make me a few $$ in time. But IF I do this, I want to do it right, not half hearted. I want quality. My wife and I both have good jobs and do not plan on quitting to be cattle ranchers. What we would like is to raise our little girl and maybe her brother or sister one day in an agricultural setting, gradually building a herd of 30-50 mommas while learning, implementing, and producing quality animals.

JW- I think " too maternal" is an expression I got from another topic. viewtopic.php?f=5&t=80382. I have helped work neighbors and friends cows, but I was far from ram rodding the operation. I guess I just read about them being worked the WRONG way, and with my lack of knowledge and experience, I'm afraid I may do it wrong and then have a few big problems I can't do anything with. The main thing to keep in mind when working cattle is to go slow, stay calm, and don't do a bunch of whooping and hollering. The cattle will reflect your emotions and demeanor, especially after they've been around you for a while. Of course, some of them that start out wild will stay that way, but you can ruin calm cattle by handling them wrong

Ricebelt- I'll look into that Chimney Rock sale. My job sometimes keeps from weekend plans though. What about F1 brangus vs. a registered brangus? Since you're just starting out I'd recommend staying with Brangus (though they don't need to be registered) instead of a Brahman x Angus F1, for much the same reasons others have recommended staying away from the Tigerstripes (Brahman x Hereford F1's). And some Brangus can be high-headed. Before you buy some walk around in the pen with them if you can. You should be able to tell how they're going to be. Ideally they should just stand there and calmly watch you until you approach them, then walk away. If they're bouncing off the opposite fence the minute they see you then don't buy them.One better than the other? Hybrid vigor different?

Walnut- I'm all ears. I wouldn't say I'm particularly partial to certain breeds for the most part. I will look into the ones you mentioned. And thanks for the suggestions on buying cattle that have been managed in the same fashion I intend to manage.

Birder- Noted for sure. Thanks

 

[Lazy M]

I'd focus on your infrastructure first; make sure thou have good fences and a working facility, and decent pasture and hay ground (unless you're going to purchase hay). Then get serious about locating the cattle. These things are like anything in that you can spend as much or as little as you want, but you will never regret spending a few dollars more.

 

[t5j1h2]

Rafter S- I have really thought a lot about Brangus. I just had concerns about their temperament. But I am gathering that other than a wild animal here and there, it's all in how they are worked. I just have to learn the right methods of working them .

Lazy- I have been working towards buying some cattle for awhile now, so I have already been doing a lot of what you have mentioned. My wife and I are young so we are going little by little so not to acquire large amounts of debt in our pursuit of this dream. We have almost paid off our 70ac that we purchased in 2012. We own a small 10ac hay meadow, that shares a property line with my inlaws 40ac that they run dairy goats on and cut hay off of. I do need to focus on some fencing, and working facilities are a must. The inlaws use to run a few cows(~10) so they have a chute and head gate but it is set up poorly now that things on their farm have been goat proofed for the past 20 years.

 

[t5j1h2]

Walnut- Older cows may be the route I should take. Maybe just let them do their thing while letting me feel like I am important and have good managing skills, but learning and gaining experience all the while? As far as heifers go, I understand they can be a handful, a gamble, or whatever you want to call it, but how about buying from a reputable breeder? My chances of having problems have to diminish a considerable amount do they not? And please, I'm 100% not disagreeing, just prying for more. Thanks

 

[JWBrahman]

My answer was not serious, it was meant to be humorous.

This is serious advice: The cattle business depends on a certain percentage of well intentioned individuals who get into cattle without understanding the market, first.

There are experienced operators that would be more than happy to get you started with their genetics in an arrangement to buy your calves. That is the best way to eliminate a lot of learning curve.

 

[Rafter S]

Walnut- Older cows may be the route I should take. Maybe just let them do their thing while letting me feel like I am important and have good managing skills, but learning and gaining experience all the while? As far as heifers go, I understand they can be a handful, a gamble, or whatever you want to call it, but how about buying from a reputable breeder? My chances of having problems have to diminish a considerable amount do they not? And please, I'm 100% not disagreeing, just prying for more. Thanks

I'm not Walnut, but I'll answer anyway. I wouldn't recommend anyone who's inexperienced with cattle to ever start with heifers. Getting them from a reputable breeder might decrease the chances of problems a little bit, but I still wouldn't do it if I were you.

 

[SJB]

i'm in the same boat. i have decided to start by letting somebody else background weaned calves on my place, or grazing mommas in the summer time for free. i get to come and go and learn at my pace, but not be on the hook. myself and my family get to be around cows, with no pressure. in the meantime, my infrastructure gets upgraded pretty much for free. i'm going to kick in money because it's the right thing to do, but i get the expertise and labor on things like fence, water, weeds, gates, etc for free. i'll get to see how the buy/sell market works without risking my capital. i don't have to buy a tractor, or worry about getting that 2nd cutting of hay up before it gets soaked. that experience will be a lot more valuable than a few dollars pasture lease/year.

as i feel comfortable, i'll start putting my skin in the game. my family and i will feed a couple of the calves out for myself and friends. i'll take one to the sale barn, and buy one from the sale barn, never making more than a 6 month commitment/investment.

sooner or later at some point over the next 5 years, i'll have a better idea of what niche in the market will work best for me. i'll be standing at the right place at the right time, with cash in my pocket and a lot better understanding of what is involved, and what i want.

 

[t5j1h2]

JW- I did chuckle at your analogy. On the advice though, that's exactly what I'm trying not to do. I realize the questions I ask may seem like a complete fool, and boy do I hate sounding ignorant, but I see no other way than ask and feel stupid ha. That hypothetical arrangement you mentioned though sounds intriguing. I need to look for more information on how an agreement like that is laid out.

Rafter S/ Walnut - The two of you seem pretty confident that heifers are not the way I should start. I'll take that to heart. Thanks

SJB - That sounds like a good setup in order to get involved as your comfort level progresses. Good luck to you.