Odd Estrus Cycle

[inyati13]

Fire Sweep Ranch (I like that name), with all the money you are saving not using GnRH, you can buy me some tail chalk and send it to me.

BTW, I just got an extra-cranial message from aliens on the other side of the Universe, planet called Umnatelle. They discovered warp drive and sold it to Spock who then dishonestly took credit for inventing it. Tell Glenn to get ready. He is going to be happy. There are 27 females (they all go topless) for every male on Umnatelle. I am thinking of going with Glenn. Sounds like a wonderful life. I just received another extra-cranial message, they said I can take Star and Blaze with me. Sorry, Kris. Glenn and I will send you an extra-cranial message at least every Christmas. :lol: :lol:

 

[Fire Sweep Ranch]

Fire Sweep Ranch (I like that name), with all the money you are saving not using GnRH, you can buy me some tail chalk and send it to me.

BTW, I just got an extra-cranial message from aliens on the other side of the Universe, planet called Umnatelle. They discovered warp drive and sold it to Spock who then dishonestly took credit for inventing it. Tell Glenn to get ready. He is going to be happy. There are 27 females (they all go topless) for every male on Umnatelle. I am thinking of going with Glenn. Sounds like a wonderful life. I just received another extra-cranial message, they said I can take Star and Blaze with me. Sorry, Kris. Glenn and I will send you an extra-cranial message at least every Christmas. :lol: :lol:

Oh my, you are a bit off bubble there Ron!! Do you have metal in your teeth? It might be the radio station you are picking up.... :lol: or did you discover another Roswell???? You might want to contact the media, this can be a sensation to make millions off of (hey, I want a cut!) :nod: :compute:

 

[cow pollinater]

, have you seen non-pregnant cattle developing udders recently? .

I'm not Ken, but yes, I've been seeing that for twelve years. It's always on a jersey. We call it whey bag as the herd where I see it used to feed free choice liquid whey and that was our best guess for a culprit. I've found that getting them bred up by fourteen months and not over-conditioning them before then keeps it to a minimum but I still see a little of it.

 

[Lucky_P]

Ron,
Get some tail chalk/crayon - or some tail paint. Great heat detection aids. We switched to tail paint 2-3 years ago.

We use GrRH at CIDR insertion, but rarely at breeding - occasionally on a heifer that repeats, or a cow that we're not absolutely certain about timing on. Not necessarily 'cheap insurance', but not likely to be harmful. Yeah, it's 'cheap' - but if you don't waste a dollar, it's all profit.

 

[inyati13]

Ron,
Get some tail chalk/crayon - or some tail paint. Great heat detection aids. We switched to tail paint 2-3 years ago.

We use GrRH at CIDR insertion, but rarely at breeding - occasionally on a heifer that repeats, or a cow that we're not absolutely certain about timing on. Not necessarily 'cheap insurance', but not likely to be harmful. Yeah, it's 'cheap' - but if you don't waste a dollar, it's all profit.

I had to get a stick of chalk (got 2). Fire Sweep was going to send me some if I didn't.

I am testing it on a heifer I am weaning. Wanting to see how long it stays on in weather, etc.

 

[pdfangus]

I had a cow once that I bred ai on time and she never showed heat.....she still had visible chalk on her six months later......

it was blue.....on a black cow.....

 

[inyati13]

Bred this heifer AI on 27 December 2013 at 10 am. Today is 25 days post-AI and she has not come back in. I have had her tail head marked with chalk for the post 10 days and it is undisturbed. I am assuming she took the AI despite odd cycle.

 

[pdfangus]

odds are good.....
but cows are living beings .....
and living beings don't always adhere to the rules or averages....

 

[inyati13]

odds are good.....
but cows are living beings .....
and living beings don't always adhere to the rules or averages....

I think the odds are good. I bred 3 heifers and 2 cows during my Dec/Jan breeding window. I did it in 7 attempts. But I like to see them get past the second cycle without showing a heat before I count them done. I got one more heat to go before I can say I am done. BTW: Most of my breeding is in the May/June window. So most are due to calve in Feb/March. My May/June window will be busy but I will also have a bull ready by then to catch the ones I don't want to AI.

 

[dun]

But I like to see them get past the second cycle without showing a heat before I count them done. I got one more heat to go before I can say I am done.

That ROT has stood me in good stead through the years. That being said, now we turn them out with the bull after the first AI except for heifers. When we used to do 100% AI that ROT proved right about 99% of the time. But I have had them miss a couple of cycles and come back in. Usually when we got a really horrible heat and humidity spell after the second missed heat. Since implantation doesn;t take place until after that second missed heat early embryonic death had a roll in it. At least in my uneducated mind it did.

 

[inyati13]

But I like to see them get past the second cycle without showing a heat before I count them done. I got one more heat to go before I can say I am done.

That ROT has stood me in good stead through the years. That being said, now we turn them out with the bull after the first AI except for heifers. When we used to do 100% AI that ROT proved right about 99% of the time. But I have had them miss a couple of cycles and come back in. Usually when we got a really horrible heat and humidity spell after the second missed heat. Since implantation doesn;t take place until after that second missed heat early embryonic death had a roll in it. At least in my uneducated mind it did.

Don't play that "I'm just a country boy routine." You know this stuff as good as anybody.
I did not know it took that long for embryo implantation in bovines. I looked it up to check, here is what I found:

By 33 days postmating, the fetal chorionic membrane has formed a fragile attachment with two to four of the cotyledons surrounding the fetus; within a few days maternal caruncles and fetal cotyledons have become so intimately interdigitated that the embryo is being completely nourished through the cotyledons. Growth of the cotyledons is also stimulated by progesterone. The other significant loss of embryos occurs at the implantation stage. Cows losing embryos at this time will return to estrus approximately 40 to 42 days after mating.

It seems that based on this it occurs between the first and second cycle post-breeding.

We could ask Dr. James Spears. He was my embryology professor in 1970. He is now on the board of the American Embryo Transfer Association (AETA).
American Embryo Transfer Association (AETA)
President: Byron Williams, DVM, Plymouth, WI
Vice President: Sam Edwards, DVM, Harrogate, TN
Secretary- Treasurer: Richard O. Whitaker, DVM, Turner, ME
Immediate Past President: David B. Duxbury, DVM, Amery, WI
Directors: Glenn Engelland, DVM, Salina, KS
Stanley F. Huels, DVM, Altamont, IL
Charles R. Looney, PhD, College Station, TX
Allen Rushmer, VMD, Leola, PA
James R. Spears, PhD, Franklin, KY

 

[regolith]

I always used that rule too - if I could get them to about 6 1/2 weeks I considered them safe in calf and getting a vet to PD them wasn't likely to tell me any different.
This year has turned that on its head I had one cycling regularly till I mated her on 12 Oct, was positive she was in calf, saw her in standing heat last week

With premating heats and AI the cows always seem to come in like clockwork, regularly every 3 weeks. Then I'd turn the bull in after 6 wks AI and he'd have his work cut out for the first week with cows short-cycling, long-cycling, all out of routine. Started using a bull instead of Cidrs to bring cows into heat for a few years...
This year is the first time all AI and the week I would normally turn the bull out - the same thing happened. A bunch of cows cycled out of time during the first week in December. Now I'm confused.

 

[dun]

I always used that rule too - if I could get them to about 6 1/2 weeks I considered them safe in calf and getting a vet to PD them wasn't likely to tell me any different.
This year has turned that on its head I had one cycling regularly till I mated her on 12 Oct, was positive she was in calf, saw her in standing heat last week

With premating heats and AI the cows always seem to come in like clockwork, regularly every 3 weeks. Then I'd turn the bull in after 6 wks AI and he'd have his work cut out for the first week with cows short-cycling, long-cycling, all out of routine. Started using a bull instead of Cidrs to bring cows into heat for a few years...
This year is the first time all AI and the week I would normally turn the bull out - the same thing happened. A bunch of cows cycled out of time during the first week in December. Now I'm confused.

A couple of years ago we had a cow I AIed, she returned to standing heat 17 days later (her normal cycle) turned her in with the bull and put an estrotect patch on her, day 18 after having been in heat the 17th day the time before her patch was shiney. Left her with the bull and figured I would sell her as a short bred after we weaned her calf. Had the vet palpate her at weaning and he came up with settled to the AI date. Ket her around and darned if she didn;t calve to the AI date. Wasn't hard to tell since the bull she ran with was a Red Angus and bull I AIed her to was a Polled Hereford.