NOT ENOUGH MILK

[piedmontese]

I got a 2 year old piedmontese heifer that had a calf and the calf was fine except it was always nursing her which at first i thought was great but after awhile i reasoned that she was not giving enough milk and her bag was never very full looking.the calf was healthy but not growing real good so i put her and her momma n with a nurse cow.the calf now nurses from both animals and is growing alot better.the jersey has been milking for 6 months so she will b able to raise this calf.so do u think i should go ahead and pull the birth mother off of leave her with her baby? do u think she will milk better the next time or should i get rid of her? her mom is a good milker.

 

[dun]

Leave her or not is a coin toss. If she'll milk better next time is also a coin toss

 

[angus9259]

Sometimes it depends on what your intentions are with the calves. Will you be retaining heifers from her? Do you want to potential infuse low producing genetics in the herd? With prices what they are on slaughter cows today, they have to be near perfect for me to keep them.

 

[Angus Cowman]

if she has good nutrition and is in good bcs now chances are she won't milk any better next time
and needs a ride to town

 

[dun]

if she has good nutrition and is in good bcs now chances are she won't milk any better next time
and needs a ride to town

I alwasy used to do that too. A couple of years ago a heifer weaned a runt at 515 pounds. The cow market really sucked and with one thing and another she didn;t leave. Her second calve weaned at 694 and her last claf weaned at 727. All calves sired by the same bull and calved within a week of the same time each year. Last year she came up open and found a new home.

 

[MoGal]

there are more threads on this same subject but I will say that my experience has been that the heifer gave more milk with her second calf. Only you know what the milking epds is on your bull since you say the heifers momma is a good milker. To cull or not? I probably would not, but then it would depend on how well I liked her momma and knew her history.

 

[BRAFORDMAN]

If her mom is a good cow and your sire has a good milk epd you may want to hold on to her another year.
I had a braford cross heifer that didn't milk worth anything her first year , the next year she milked like a holstein. HONEST TRUTH
If you like the heifer and you can afford to keep her another year go for it.

 

[msscamp]

I got a 2 year old piedmontese heifer that had a calf and the calf was fine except it was always nursing her which at first i thought was great but after awhile i reasoned that she was not giving enough milk and her bag was never very full looking.the calf was healthy but not growing real good so i put her and her momma n with a nurse cow.the calf now nurses from both animals and is growing alot better.the jersey has been milking for 6 months so she will b able to raise this calf.so do u think i should go ahead and pull the birth mother off of leave her with her baby? do u think she will milk better the next time or should i get rid of her? her mom is a good milker.

Although I'm not familiar with the Piedmontese breed, the fact that she has calved as a 2 year old tells me that she is probably a first time heifer. While it is not written in stone, the fact remains that most first time heifers do not milk as well as they do as 2nd year heifers so, unless there was another mitigating factor, I would give this girl a 2nd chance and make my decisions from there.

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

But, not milking well as a 2 year old is one thing - not having enough milk to keep her calf growing without a nurse cow is excessively poor milking. Unless this heifer is thin, undernourished, been sick - some MAJOR "excuse" (and we all know what robert says about excuses) - she is a poor candidate to stay in a herd.

 

[Angus Cowman]

But, not milking well as a 2 year old is one thing - not having enough milk to keep her calf growing without a nurse cow is excessively poor milking. Unless this heifer is thin, undernourished, been sick - some MAJOR "excuse" (and we all know what robert says about excuses) - she is a poor candidate to stay in a herd.

I agree
if a hfr raises a lighter calf that is one thing if the calf is unthrifty because of lack of milk then she is starving it and don't have enough milk to raise it then she needs to go to town

 

[snickers]

we have had the experience of our heifers have alot more milk the second calf. I always thought that after a heifer had her first calf then she wasnt a heifer anymore she would now be considered a cow, not a second calf heifer?

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

But, not milking well as a 2 year old is one thing - not having enough milk to keep her calf growing without a nurse cow is excessively poor milking. Unless this heifer is thin, undernourished, been sick - some MAJOR "excuse" (and we all know what robert says about excuses) - she is a poor candidate to stay in a herd.

I agree
if a hfr raises a lighter calf that is one thing if the calf is unthrifty because of lack of milk then she is starving it and don't have enough milk to raise it then she needs to go to town

Especially when we are looking at great cull prices and we're talking about keeping something thru the winter :shock:

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

Snickers - that's a regional "thing". Here they are open heifers, bred heifers, 1st calf heifers & 2nd calf heifers. I think they refer to them that way, because a 3-yr old having her 2nd calf is still growing.
Yes, once they have a calf - technically - they are a COW.
And yes, she should have more milk with her 2nd calf, but, more than nothing isn't enough in my book.

 

[cypressfarms]

I had crunched some numbers on heifers in my herd some time ago; although I really don't like heifers...When I did the math the heifers weaned calves close to 50 pounds less than the herd average. On the 2nd calf, the now cow (was heifer) was back up to the herd average almost all of the time. I did have one heifer that had a 2nd calf wean less than the first (strange) and another heifer that weaned a calf 50 pounds heavier than the average. That last heifer is still in my herd and drops a calf every 365 or better and has the nicest/biggest calf every year - and she's the ugliest cow.

This info was gathered from my herd of mostly Brangus (~ 30 head) over about 4 years of time.


By the way, I think Jeanne's point of a heifer under milking is an excellent. There is obviously a difference between a cow that doesn't milk a lot and one that can't keep a calf alive.

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

I don't have the figures in front of me, but in the Simmental breed, a 2-year old is given 60# adjustment for a bull calf over a 5-yr old cow. (and I think about 48# if it's a heifer calf). So, your personal test is right on!

 

[robert]

adjustment factors in many ways over correct the adj weaning wt of heifers / younger cows compared to mature cows, I think the angus adj factor for 2, 3 & 4 yo is 90, 50 and 20lbs. On actual weights I figure the average heifers calf bw will be about 7 to 12lbs less than the mature cows and this will translate to 40 to 80lbs lighter average 205d wts. The cows who really get kicked in the ass on adj factors is the older cows of 10+ who only get a 20lb adjustment whether they're 10 or 15 or 20yo, this in my way of thinking does as much to push down the epd's of the older cows and keeps the push on for younger, outcross breeding methods. Sorry for the rambling.....

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

After seeing your figures I decided to look ours up.
From 2 to 4 on bull calves - 67# - 36# - 14#
>11 only 11#
So yeah, about the same.

 

[plumber_greg]

i don't want to hijack, but would you explain, with an example, those numbers. Always wondered what an adjusted weight was figured on. thanks gs

 

[Red Bull Breeder]

If she can't raise the first calf at all, chance are the second will be better but not much. Sell the cull!

 

[robert]

i don't want to hijack, but would you explain, with an example, those numbers. Always wondered what an adjusted weight was figured on. thanks gs

weights are adjusted to a mature cow constant, so you have a 1st calf heifer, she calves a 67lb calf (the bw gets and adaf too of +7lbs on a 2yo so it's adj bw is 74lbs) the calf weighs 500lbs at weaning age of 180days, to find the adjusted 205d weight you subtract 67lbs from 500lbs (433lbs) divided by days old (180) = 2.4lbs/day x 205 = 493lbs + 67lb bw = 560lbs + 90lbs age of dam factor (2yo adjustment) = 650lbs adj. 205d. This should give an approximation of what this calf would be if raised by the mature cow version of this calf, therefore allowing you to compare all cows of all ages on a level playing field, within proper contemporary groups of course.