Nobody would buy him, Why?

[Sage]

This is the only bull that hasn't sold this year for us. We raise Reg Red Angus and have fair luck selling our breeding stock. To me this was one of our beter bulls but nobody wants him, I had him priced at $1500, lowered it to $1200 for a couple of prospective buyers but no deal. His ear tips froze as a calf as can be seen in the pic. He gained well 701lb WW(598 Adj) Ratio 106, 1092YW Ratio 111, 38cm scrotal. Here is is reg 1163432.

http://search.redangus.org/animal/1163432

He is from a bred cow we purchased from Kimm Red Angus that is raising a great calf again this year. I'm lookin for some honest constructive critism on this guy. We figure on using him for clean up next year, just cant send him to the burger factory at this point.

 

[Sage]

Tried to get some photos up but I can't get them within the size limit.

 

[3waycross]

Could be that 94lb birthweight. Other than that he looks pretty darned good. Wish you were closer we might take a look at him. Any idea what he weighs now.

I'll pm you my email address, I would sure like to see what he looks like.

 

[DOC HARRIS]

Not having an image or three to visualize, it is virtually impossible to ascertain the phenotype of the bull. Please show us three pictures taken from two feet above hard, level ground - side view 90 degrees with lens aimed just behind the shoulder, rear view with lens aimed directly between hocks, and front view aimed directly at his lower jaw.

You mentioned that his ears had been frost bitten. Appearance is EVERYTHING, and in spite of the fact that experienced breeders are well aware that damaged ears themselves have no bearing on the genetic inheritance factors bred into progeny, they still cannot avoid cassting a wary eye at physical structures that are "different! For the same reasons that people cannot prevent being "looky-loos" as they pass an automobile accident on a highway, they look with suspicion at frozen ears! I feel that, right or wrong, that is probably the primary reason that you have had a difficult time selling the bull. ...and that is a shame.

DOC HARRIS

 

[dun]

Tried to get some photos up but I can't get them within the size limit.

Email them to me at [email protected] and I'll resize and post them

 

[dun]

Other then a visual, I only see 2 negatives based on ultrasound and EPDs. WW is a little low and REA is horrible for a yearling.

 

[Sage]

3 way he weighed 1208lb the first of April

Dun thanks I took a couple pics got a side view and a mostly rear view that I hope you can get up. Your right his REA scan is horrible, I would say that is his biggest fault.

 

[Aaron]

Frost-bitten ears don't mean anything if he is a great looking bull otherwise and you find a buyer who is a real cowman. I have been in a herd or two where a frostbitten bull calf was the best bull calf they had. Granted, some people are leery about the possibility that he may have frozen more than just his ears. It doesn't happen with every calf, but I have seen a few in my lifetime that did freeze their feet.

I think the biggest problem would be the 94 lb. birthweight. A good calf in Hereford terms, small in Charolais terms and a monster in the Angus world. We have a number of Red and Black Angus bull breeders in our area. I have never seen them try and market a bull with a 90 lb. birthweight or over...they just never sell. Commercial Angus guys want 70-75 lb. calves. But then again, it only takes a dimwit to buy low birthweight Angus cattle. It takes a real cattlemen to raise real cattle. Hopefully one visits you soon for that bull.

 

[Frankie]

Bull buyers will discount anything they can, including frost bitten ears. It's always a mystery to me what each buyer is looking for when he evaluates bulls. And there are other factors than just the bull. We had a bad drought in 2006. People sold down their herds or sold out altogether. Bull prices are just now recovering. Bull buyers in this area tend to shy away from bulls with a higher birthweight. IMO, you shouldn't give him away by lowering the price too much. If you get a reputation for selling cheap bulls, it's hard to ask a higher price. You might be better off to bite the bullet and take him to the sale barn? :cry2: Good luck with him....

 

[Brandonm22]

I agree with Frankie. IF a guy quotes you a bull for $1200, then next year quotes you a bull for $2800 you kinda look crosseyed at him. You wonder if he is cheating you on the high dollar bull...or was he trying to cheat you on the $1200 bull......either way you get a little nervous.

 

[dun]

 

[2/B or not 2/B]

The ears are hardly noticeable. For me, that high of a birth weight would be a problem. For those who don't mind the high bw, they probably don't like the average WW and low REA that come along with it.

 

[3waycross]

He appears to be lacking a lot of muscle in his hind quarters, and he could use a better top line. The birth weight and being in the bottom 4 percent in the breed for REA doesn't help him a lot either.

Having said that he might still make somebody a decent cleanup bull. I personally don't think 1200 is that much too low. Right now he would bring .69 for bologna and that's what cull bulls are selling for around here.

 

[Frankie]

Is it just the photo, or does he have some black? Would that affect his price?

 

[3waycross]

Is it just the photo, or does he have some black? Would that affect his price?

His pedagree lists him as 100 percent RA.

 

[Sage]

He is 1A Red Angus, I thought there was enough topics on color in the past that there isn't a "little black" in the Angus breeds. He is a very dark Red.

 

[Third Row]

Why do you think somebody should use him on their cows?

 

[Sage]

Third Row I feel he is better than burger, I wouldn't use him for registered stock but I have seen much poorer quality bulls. I feel he is a basic average bull with a basic average price when he was for sale. His ratios for gain are above average, temperment is very good and has decent capacity. Would I keep replacements from him, depends on the heifer I guess but I would (I am) using him for clean up next year so he will get to breed a few cows(we time AI the whole herd and run 2 other bulls for clean up).

Now right back at you Third Row why would or wouldn't you use him?

 

[Third Row]

I'm only being so blunt since you asked. This is what I would be thinking while saying "Hmmmm, I think about it and get back to you" if I were looking at him at your ranch…

I don't see anything visually about him that would indicate to me that he deserves to pass his genetics on. I don't care about his ears, his shoulders are what I look at first and dismiss him as a potential breeder. His shoulders are way too pinched for me and that is reinfoced by his REA stats. The top end of his hind quarter is adequate but he doesn't carry it down very far at all.

The shoulders are something I would overlook if he were a calving ease bull but with a 94lb birth weight and no calves on the ground to indicate otherwise, I wouldn't consider him a calving ease bull.

I don't see anything in his pedigree that excites me.

He's red and I require a bit more quality in red bulls because their calves aren't going to get the premium black calves get.

Bottom line, I don't see any reason that I would want to use him and there's no shortage of bulls in that price range. He's red, has a relatively high BW, and doesn't have a phenotype that makes me take a second look.

 

[mnmtranching]

I've bought a few bulls and looked at ummmmm thousands.

Trust me on this. The birthweight bad. The ears. I have never gone to a registered bull auction ANYTIME :!: and seen a bull with that badly frozen ears. I'm not kidding. He would NOT sell. Looks mean a lot to even commercial guys. And if his ears got that cold, so did other body parts. I can't imagine anybody buying him for breeding. Keep those ears from freezing. Even on feeder calves it will cost at least $50 per head.