Next AI Bull: Duff Honcho

[CreekAngus]

On another groups message board, someone posted Duff Honcho. When I saw his pictures I was blown away with his phenotype and he truly is an outcross. He's and epd albatross, but it's not an issue for my herd.

I cant figure out how to get a picture posted, much appreciated if someone can do that.


https://www.purebeefgenetics.com/sires/angus/duff-honcho-426/

 

[Welter Bros Angus]

Personally I like bigger cows, my perfect cow would be 1400-1500 lbs. Using duff and oldhe genetics is going to dramatically decrease frame as well as weight. Yes, he is outcross and has a phenomenal phenotype but those calves will not grow near as well as anything else available across studs. I'd be interested in using him on very large frame cows, but his dollar values just aren't there. It's very rare to see an angus bull below $80 on $B in any of the sales around across the country. He's $7 on $B. For me, my customers need to have marketability, and having some carcass values is critical. It takes a lot to get frame in cattle, and I can't justify using him. I think he'd work really well in a grass finishing program. IMO, if you really want to decrease frame and keep dollar values, you should use Charlo.

 

[CreekAngus]

Personally I like bigger cows, my perfect cow would be 1400-1500 lbs. Using duff and oldhe genetics is going to dramatically decrease frame as well as weight. Yes, he is outcross and has a phenomenal phenotype but those calves will not grow near as well as anything else available across studs. I'd be interested in using him on very large frame cows, but his dollar values just aren't there. It's very rare to see an angus bull below $80 on $B in any of the sales around across the country. He's $7 on $B. For me, my customers need to have marketability, and having some carcass values is critical. It takes a lot to get frame in cattle, and I can't justify using him. I think he'd work really well in a grass finishing program. IMO, if you really want to decrease frame and keep dollar values, you should use Charlo.

All my cows are 7 frame so we could end up with some cows that are just right. In the area I'm located in, EPD's don't sell nearly as well as Phenotype and we are a very dependent upon grass. Most commercial folks in this area, market their seven month olds by the pound and rarely do you find someone who goes all the way to the rail. Charlo could work as well, but I like the look of this guy and I've seen some of his progeny and they are the kind of cattle I want.

 

[CreekAngus]

[image]http://www.powerpluscattle.com/angus/angus/detail/id/8049[/image]

 

[Ebenezer]

HP looks pretty dismal. Would be too short in height for local sale barns. My problem with short cattle genetics: it's hard to get it out one you add it. I guess the ice puts out the fire!

 

[jscunn]

Lots of strikes HP, DOC, CEM, but he looks like a tank...

 

[Bestoutwest]

He looks physically good, but that DOC, and $ values are really low. For $40/straw you can do better.

 

[CreekAngus]

He looks physically good, but that DOC, and $ values are really low. For $40/straw you can do better.

I'm actually leaning towards Duff Goose. I'm not looking for numbers, but phenotype. Unfortunately cattle isn't my real job, so I can afford to create a herd, based purely on phenotype and not be overly concerned with numbers. Honestly I have a bunch of really good cattle that for the most part are really high on their numbers and injecting genetics that are running lower won't hurt all that much. And I'm seeking outliers in the industry, I don't want to have what everyone else has got.

 

[Son of Butch]

Yes he is an impressive individual. But looking at him I had a realization about what is wrong with how we in the beef industry buy semen. We are shown photo after photo of 4-5 yr old bulls with
semen for sale when IMO we should be asking/demanding to see group photos of the offspring of the A.I. sires for sale.

This is directed at sellers of A.I. sires/semen... I don't sell 2 yr old steers.
I don't care what they look like as mature animals.
Show me what matters to me. What do his calves look like 30 days after weaning?
What do they look like entering a feedlot? How many days does it take them to finish?
At what age do they finish and what do they look like when finished?

I'm not buying the darn bull. I'm buying his offspring. Show me what I'm buying.
Society averages a selfie per day, there's no reason not to have pictures of the actual end product.

 

[TJSideBiz]

Yes he is an impressive individual. But looking at him I had a realization about what is wrong with how we in the beef industry buy semen. We are shown photo after photo of 4-5 yr old bulls with
semen for sale when IMO we should be asking/demanding to see group photos of the offspring of the A.I. sires for sale.

This is directed at sellers of A.I. sires/semen... I don't sell 2 yr old steers.
I don't care what they look like as mature animals.
Show me what matters to me. What do his calves look like 30 days after weaning?
What do they look like entering a feedlot? How many days does it take them to finish?
At what age do they finish and what do they look like when finished?

I'm not buying the darn bull. I'm buying his offspring. Show me what I'm buying.
Society averages a selfie per day, there's no reason not to have pictures of the actual end product.

Thanks for mentioning that, SoB. I'm such a small timer that I have to be fairly certain I'm choosing the right bull. Once I find an interesting bull I research the heck out of him. I scour every site I can to find offspring. It's a challenge. Sometimes it leads to more than expected... That's how I found CT! :banana:

 

[Son of Butch]

Yes he is an impressive individual. But looking at him I had a realization about what is wrong with how we in the beef industry buy semen. We are shown photo after photo of 4-5 yr old bulls with
semen for sale when IMO we should be asking/demanding to see group photos of the offspring of the A.I. sires for sale.

This is directed at sellers of A.I. sires/semen... I don't sell 2 yr old steers.
I don't care what they look like as mature animals.
Show me what matters to me. What do his calves look like 30 days after weaning?
What do they look like entering a feedlot? How many days does it take them to finish?
At what age do they finish and what do they look like when finished?

I'm not buying the darn bull. I'm buying his offspring. Show me what I'm buying.
Society averages a selfie per day, there's no reason not to have pictures of the actual end product.

Thanks for mentioning that, SoB. I'm such a small timer that I have to be fairly certain I'm choosing the right bull. Once I find an interesting bull I research the heck out of him. I scour every site I can to find offspring. It's a challenge. Sometimes it leads to more than expected... That's how I found CT! :banana:

Ahh... better luck next time?

 

[CattleMan1920]

Yes he is an impressive individual. But looking at him I had a realization about what is wrong with how we in the beef industry buy semen. We are shown photo after photo of 4-5 yr old bulls with
semen for sale when IMO we should be asking/demanding to see group photos of the offspring of the A.I. sires for sale.

This is directed at sellers of A.I. sires/semen... I don't sell 2 yr old steers.
I don't care what they look like as mature animals.
Show me what matters to me. What do his calves look like 30 days after weaning?
What do they look like entering a feedlot? How many days does it take them to finish?
At what age do they finish and what do they look like when finished?

I'm not buying the darn bull. I'm buying his offspring. Show me what I'm buying.
Society averages a selfie per day, there's no reason not to have pictures of the actual end product.

That's why I post so many calf pics on CT

 

[CattleMan1920]

On another groups message board, someone posted Duff Honcho. When I saw his pictures I was blown away with his phenotype and he truly is an outcross. He's and epd albatross, but it's not an issue for my herd.

I cant figure out how to get a picture posted, much appreciated if someone can do that.


https://www.purebeefgenetics.com/sires/angus/duff-honcho-426/

Here are my two cents on Honcho. First off, this is in no way to put the bull down or the operation that owns him.

Son of Butch mentioned the calves. When you look at Honcho's sire, he only has one genetic progeny which is most likely Honcho. I would like to at least see 15 progeny from the sire of Honcho, and equally of Honcho himself since he was born in 2014. I will overlook this in the case of bigger operations where the sires and dams are proven and have progeny to back it up.

He gets that phenotype that you like from OCC. I can almost spot an animal from OCC on first glance. If I absolutely wanted to use him, I would feel that I could trust the OCC blood in him.

The dam was born in 2011, but has only one genetic progeny, which again is most likely Honcho. I wonder why she hasn't had any more calves that are dna tested?

As for his EPD's, he looks to be efficient, but the HP and CEM could be better.

Our bull, the melted butter one, is right at 2500 pounds, he too has good feet, but he has better EPD's and genomic progeny to look at. I doubt I could ever get $40 a straw for him and $40 for certificates. If I were contacted by Select Sires, ABS, or Origen and they wanted him, I would be in shock.

Am I being hard on ole Honcho, not at all. He's thicker than a Snicker, he's easy on the eyes.

I wish his owner the best and again in no way, am I putting down the bull or his owner's operation. Let me make that clear.

 

[CreekAngus]

On another groups message board, someone posted Duff Honcho. When I saw his pictures I was blown away with his phenotype and he truly is an outcross. He's and epd albatross, but it's not an issue for my herd.

I cant figure out how to get a picture posted, much appreciated if someone can do that.


https://www.purebeefgenetics.com/sires/angus/duff-honcho-426/

Here are my two cents on Honcho. First off, this is in no way to put the bull down or the operation that owns him.

Son of Butch mentioned the calves. When you look at Honcho's sire, he only has one genetic progeny which is most likely Honcho. I would like to at least see 15 progeny from the sire of Honcho, and equally of Honcho himself since he was born in 2014. I will overlook this in the case of bigger operations where the sires and dams are proven and have progeny to back it up.

He gets that phenotype that you like from OCC. I can almost spot an animal from OCC on first glance. If I absolutely wanted to use him, I would feel that I could trust the OCC blood in him.

The dam was born in 2011, but has only one genetic progeny, which again is most likely Honcho. I wonder why she hasn't had any more calves that are dna tested?

As for his EPD's, he looks to be efficient, but the HP and CEM could be better.

Our bull, the melted butter one, is right at 2500 pounds, he too has good feet, but he has better EPD's and genomic progeny to look at. I doubt I could ever get $40 a straw for him and $40 for certificates. If I were contacted by Select Sires, ABS, or Origen and they wanted him, I would be in shock.

Am I being hard on ole Honcho, not at all. He's thicker than a Snicker, he's easy on the eyes.

I wish his owner the best and again in no way, am I putting down the bull or his owner's operation. Let me make that clear.

Branded: I see what you're saying about the number of progeny. Odd thing is, end of the month Duff has a sale going on with direct progeny from Honcho. I'm actually leaning towards using Goose down the road. I will continue to research and find progeny.

 

[CattleMan1920]

On another groups message board, someone posted Duff Honcho. When I saw his pictures I was blown away with his phenotype and he truly is an outcross. He's and epd albatross, but it's not an issue for my herd.

I cant figure out how to get a picture posted, much appreciated if someone can do that.


https://www.purebeefgenetics.com/sires/angus/duff-honcho-426/

Here are my two cents on Honcho. First off, this is in no way to put the bull down or the operation that owns him.

Son of Butch mentioned the calves. When you look at Honcho's sire, he only has one genetic progeny which is most likely Honcho. I would like to at least see 15 progeny from the sire of Honcho, and equally of Honcho himself since he was born in 2014. I will overlook this in the case of bigger operations where the sires and dams are proven and have progeny to back it up.

He gets that phenotype that you like from OCC. I can almost spot an animal from OCC on first glance. If I absolutely wanted to use him, I would feel that I could trust the OCC blood in him.

The dam was born in 2011, but has only one genetic progeny, which again is most likely Honcho. I wonder why she hasn't had any more calves that are dna tested?

As for his EPD's, he looks to be efficient, but the HP and CEM could be better.

Our bull, the melted butter one, is right at 2500 pounds, he too has good feet, but he has better EPD's and genomic progeny to look at. I doubt I could ever get $40 a straw for him and $40 for certificates. If I were contacted by Select Sires, ABS, or Origen and they wanted him, I would be in shock.

Am I being hard on ole Honcho, not at all. He's thicker than a Snicker, he's easy on the eyes.

I wish his owner the best and again in no way, am I putting down the bull or his owner's operation. Let me make that clear.

Branded: I see what you're saying about the number of progeny. Odd thing is, end of the month Duff has a sale going on with direct progeny from Honcho. I'm actually leaning towards using Goose down the road. I will continue to research and find progeny.

I'm not saying "don't use him"

He makes most Angus bulls in Kentucky look like featherweights. He sure hasn't missed his dinner each night, that's for sure.

The OCC in him should ease concerns. We have two OCC Unmistakable grandsons, out of a McCumber Unmistakable bull. They are getting thicker by the day, and at 3-4 years old they will be tanks.

If I were Honcho's owner I would get those progeny tested, just to show that he has proven calves on the ground, I would also get a genetic bundle test on him to make sure he is not a carrier. For $55 bucks, that's nothing for the peace of mind.

 

[RyanE7]

 

[DLD]

Different cattle work in different environments. In the short grass country where this bull comes from, moderate framed, easy fleshing cattle are more efficient. They breed back and milk on less feed than higher growth kind of cattle. True, they're not the answer for everyone, but there is a niche that they fill quite well.

I'm not sure of the current status of that program, but Duff did have a deal where they'd buy calves from their genetics at a premium price to feed for their beef program. I believe it may have evolved from when I was most familiar with it, but I think they still have something similar.

As to the lack of progeny data, it may not be due as much to a lack of offspring, but to the fact that most are utilized in a commercial setting or by breeders (probably including Duff's themselves) that aren't concerned with epd's that don't really fit their programs plus they know they'll never get impressive numbers in comparison to the high growth cattle. I can't argue with the genetic testing, though.

I have bought a couple of Duff bulls over the years, and AI'd to many of them and still do. They have worked very well for us.

 

[hornedfrogbbq]

Yes he is an impressive individual. But looking at him I had a realization about what is wrong with how we in the beef industry buy semen. We are shown photo after photo of 4-5 yr old bulls with
semen for sale when IMO we should be asking/demanding to see group photos of the offspring of the A.I. sires for sale.

This is directed at sellers of A.I. sires/semen... I don't sell 2 yr old steers.
I don't care what they look like as mature animals.
Show me what matters to me. What do his calves look like 30 days after weaning?
What do they look like entering a feedlot? How many days does it take them to finish?
At what age do they finish and what do they look like when finished?

I'm not buying the darn bull. I'm buying his offspring. Show me what I'm buying.
Society averages a selfie per day, there's no reason not to have pictures of the actual end product.

I keep saying this exact same thing! Prove it...show me the offspring, show me the feedlot results and show me the carcass gradings. It's like being asked to buy a house and not going in it but using a picture from 4 years ago. I mean, do you have Charlo, 1682, Mill Bar and every SAV bull pic memorized? No updated pics and no information on the outcomes. The folks chasing prime give that info...and i understand fully there are huge variations in where they are fed, how they are cared for and the like (including weather). Fine. Give me more info and allow me to use it how i please.

Just an amen from me.

 

[hornedfrogbbq]

Yes he is an impressive individual. But looking at him I had a realization about what is wrong with how we in the beef industry buy semen. We are shown photo after photo of 4-5 yr old bulls with
semen for sale when IMO we should be asking/demanding to see group photos of the offspring of the A.I. sires for sale.

This is directed at sellers of A.I. sires/semen... I don't sell 2 yr old steers.
I don't care what they look like as mature animals.
Show me what matters to me. What do his calves look like 30 days after weaning?
What do they look like entering a feedlot? How many days does it take them to finish?
At what age do they finish and what do they look like when finished?

I'm not buying the darn bull. I'm buying his offspring. Show me what I'm buying.
Society averages a selfie per day, there's no reason not to have pictures of the actual end product.

That's why I post so many calf pics on CT

What bull is "CT"?

 

[CattleMan1920]

Yes he is an impressive individual. But looking at him I had a realization about what is wrong with how we in the beef industry buy semen. We are shown photo after photo of 4-5 yr old bulls with
semen for sale when IMO we should be asking/demanding to see group photos of the offspring of the A.I. sires for sale.

This is directed at sellers of A.I. sires/semen... I don't sell 2 yr old steers.
I don't care what they look like as mature animals.
Show me what matters to me. What do his calves look like 30 days after weaning?
What do they look like entering a feedlot? How many days does it take them to finish?
At what age do they finish and what do they look like when finished?

I'm not buying the darn bull. I'm buying his offspring. Show me what I'm buying.
Society averages a selfie per day, there's no reason not to have pictures of the actual end product.

That's why I post so many calf pics on CT

What bull is "CT"?

He's not a bull, that's short for Cattle Today