New Venture Ideas

[AggieStudent20]

Hi everyone. I'm an ag student who is currently studying for a bachelor's in Agribusiness :cboy: . In about two years I'll have the opportunity to have my own enterprise on the family farm (115 acres). My issue is I'm still not sure what to start out as. My family wants to do a normal cow calf operation as they did before; however, I'm sure this isn't the most sustainable/profitable thing since we're a smaller farm. I have currently thought of a few ways to start out in the cattle business. We have a good lot system and about two barns we can feed in. My goals are with any enterprise is to feed as little hay as possible, rotate pastures effectively, cover crop for gain and enhance soil fertility, and minimize inputs such as feed and fertilizer. Here are my ideas.

1. Stocker Cattle

I know a few reputable farmers who wean their calves (mostly Angus, Hereford and Charolais) at around 500 pounds. My idea was to purchase these calves and get them to around 700-800 pounds and sell them as yearlings. This way we're not dealing with cows or bulls and we would just simply be utilizing our forage. I would like to run two rotations of stockers a year if possible. If prices go down I could breed the heifers and sell them as bred and I could finish the steers.

2. Nurse Cows with Bottle Calves

Another idea I had was to purchase cull dairy cows and rotate calves off of them. This way I don't have the cost of milk replacer or the labor in bottle feeding. I'd just have to graft the bottle calves (which my family has experience in). I always see bottle calves for sale in my area so I don't think I would have to worry about supply as much. I would just have to purchase calves at a decent price. I would then sell the weaned calves at around 600 pounds.

3. Pastured Veal with Nurse Cows

I would purchase Holstein bull calves in the area, graft them on to cull dairy cows, let them gain until 300-400 pounds and have them harvested at that weight as veal. I've been reading up on this and have heard there is profit if it is done right. My only issue is who I would sell the calves to. I currently have no interest as being a farmer's market vendor as the ones in my area are not that big.

Any suggestions/help would be greatly appreciated from anybody who has experience in any of the three enterprises would be very much appreciated. I'm very much a newbie and want to learn as much as possible.

 

[ddd75]

shouldn't all that money your paying for college teach you what to do?

 

[wbvs58]

All are possibilities but the stockers give you the ability to easily get in and out of them as need be. If the season fails you just unload them and wait for better times.

Ken

 

[southalberta]

Depends on your area what the best situation is.

 

[AggieStudent20]

That's what I was thinking Ken. Do you have any more advice? I've read a lot on the stocker business but I've never had any hands on experience with it.

 

[AggieStudent20]

Depends on your area what the best situation is.

I live in Central MO

 

[snoopdog]

What do you enjoy? That is the question. There is no right answer. Any ,or all can make a little, or put you in the poorhouse. If buying stockers, get a relationship started and get/give a fair deal, What has worked for me in the past buying off the farm with good genetics, is offering avg mkt price. It takes some work because you're gonna get the "mine will bring top dollar", yes they will, but after yardage and commission the dollars are the same. But you can haul them, they won't be comingled, and you save on the purchase price. That being said, we are a cow/calf operation and intend to stay that way for now.

 

[AggieStudent20]

What do you enjoy? That is the question. There is no right answer. Any ,or all can make a little, or put you in the poorhouse. If buying stockers, get a relationship started and get/give a fair deal, What has worked for me in the past buying off the farm with good genetics, is offering avg mkt price. It takes some work because you're gonna get the "mine will bring top dollar", yes they will, but after yardage and commission the dollars are the same. But you can haul them, they won't be comingled, and you save on the purchase price. That being said, we are a cow/calf operation and intend to stay that way for now.

I enjoy almost everything with cattle. I know a couple guys who wean lower weight calves consistently I have decent relationships with. I just seemed to like this part of the industry because of the flexibility.

 

[snoopdog]

Don't skimp on quality, that relationship when you sell is just as important to realize a profit. Cultivate it like you do your buying side. There will be a time that you lose, be ready for it and move on, if stockers is your game. No getting around it, accept it, it's part of it. Just as mortality is a sure thing.

 

[RanchMan90]

Education is the best investment I can think of. This is a good start http://olsonranchllc.com/ . Cheaper than trial and error, will still be some of that though.

 

[mayesfarm]

Good luck with what ever venture you decide on . One of the most profitable and easiest cattle enterprises that I have ever done was buying thin cows out of the weigh pen putting on cheap gain and moving them on . Cheap cows and zero health issues . There was a book by Jay Nixon that has several good ideas I have tried a few and most were profitable .

 

[greatgerts]

Depends on your area what the best situation is.

I live in Central MO

I'm in East Central MO. I know a few of us in my area would like to have someone to have a herd of recips to raise their ET calves to weaning. Some have the fee as a per head basis, others have a base price, plus $x over the current market price.

 

[pdfangus]

Depends on your area what the best situation is.

I live in Central MO

I'm in East Central MO. I know a few of us in my area would like to have someone to have a herd of recips to raise their ET calves to weaning. Some have the fee as a per head basis, others have a base price, plus $x over the current market price.

I know a guy who even did that with his goats....all his females were et recips for another breeder for a year or two...

it takes top quality management....folks are not gonna pay a premium for dead calves or dinks who did not get enough to eat...

if you do stockers...a relationship with your source is important...I would prefer calves that were preconditioned and who did not go through the sale yard to pick up every disease known to bovines...not losing one to sickness will pay a good premium on high quality preconditioned calves.

figure out what your max stocking rate is....I see far too many people who have much more livestock than they have feed and that is a dead expense...

 

[MillennialRancher]

I'm in a similar boat as you my friend. too many options

tried and true cow/calf..
raising replacements for the local commercial guys...
summer stocking on forage..
BULLS!?... :shock:

Maybe all of the above if my old neighbor will sell/rent his 400 acre "hunting reserve" (that conveniently connects my two tracts of land together) for a reasonable price :frowns:

 

[AggieStudent20]

I'm currently leaning more on the nurse cow thing with potentially running stockers with the grafted calves when there weaned. I hear the standard is to run 3 rotations on a Holstein with 3-4 calves a rotation including the cows natural calf. There are a few dairies around so sourcing Holstein/Jersey bull calves wouldn't be difficult. My only issue is sourcing beef bottle calves. Is there any tips on purchasing bottle calves from the sale barn? It seems to me people in my area sometimes want up to $300 for a snotty nosed, thin pink-eyed calf that may or may not have had colostrum.

 

[farmerjan]

The tip I can give you on purchasing bottle calves from the sale barn......DON'T. Find a dairy that you can buy their calves directly. Pay them a fair price to make sure they have had colostrum, are at least 24-48 hours old. Don't skimp or you will be burying as many as you raise.

As for finding beef bottle calves. They will be few and far between; why would a farmer pull a beef calf off a cow unless she doesn't have milk, or prolapses, dies, or has some other problem.

Several dairies in this area are breeding the lower end of their cows to beef bulls to try to get a little more value out of the calves. Ask around and see if anyone is doing that.

I have jersey and jer x hol nurse cows. If you are planning to try to raise 3 bunches , then you had better plan on a fair amount of grain to keep the cows in production. Holsteins do not do very good on just grass, unless you are a very good manager of rotational grazing with some very exceptional grass. I have been raising calves on nurse cows for 30+ years. The baby calf market here is terrible, they are bringing $5 to $50. Holstein feeders in the 4-6 wt range are only worth $.50 lb on average. There is no market for them here. The hol x angus feeders are not bringing $1.00 lb in the 4-5 wts. The beef feeder market here has also tanked. Most are in the .80's for heifers and 1.25 +/- for steers in the 4-6 wts.
There was a bred heifer sale recently. Due to calve in the spring, weighed an average 1,000 lbs.... they brought $700 to $800 a head.
I have turned my nurse cows out with their calves. They will raise one batch of 3 each average this year. Not worth the extra grain. I am creep feeding the calves in a manner. They come in through a creep gate and I feed them some grain so they can get some away from the cows. Not alot, but it makes them easier to catch up and handle. They see me and come in rather than run the other way; makes doing anything with them less stressful. They also get some decent grass hay in the manger in the barn so can eat in peace. Teaches them to be "bunk broke" and used to people around them.
Realize something also. Not alot of cows will make good nurse cows. For every good one, you might go through 2 or 3 or 5. Some are "born to be momma's" and some are absolute witches to get to take anything but their own calf. If you have to fight them, and they want to fight the calf, the calves won't do good. Nurse cows take a whole different mindset. My son will tell you because he is the first one to say he will NEVER deal with nurse cows. That's my job... Patience takes on a whole new meaning.... Many cows off a commercial dairy also do not do good because they often have never had a calf on them. The instinct has been bred out of alot of them over the years. I have 5 now, and one will leave when her calf does. I have fought with her for 2 previous lactations and am done. One is a peach and will take anything.... the others do okay.

 

[AggieStudent20]

The tip I can give you on purchasing bottle calves from the sale barn......DON'T. Find a dairy that you can buy their calves directly. Pay them a fair price to make sure they have had colostrum, are at least 24-48 hours old. Don't skimp or you will be burying as many as you raise.

As for finding beef bottle calves. They will be few and far between; why would a farmer pull a beef calf off a cow unless she doesn't have milk, or prolapses, dies, or has some other problem.

Several dairies in this area are breeding the lower end of their cows to beef bulls to try to get a little more value out of the calves. Ask around and see if anyone is doing that.

I have jersey and jer x hol nurse cows. If you are planning to try to raise 3 bunches , then you had better plan on a fair amount of grain to keep the cows in production. Holsteins do not do very good on just grass, unless you are a very good manager of rotational grazing with some very exceptional grass. I have been raising calves on nurse cows for 30+ years. The baby calf market here is terrible, they are bringing $5 to $50. Holstein feeders in the 4-6 wt range are only worth $.50 lb on average. There is no market for them here. The hol x angus feeders are not bringing $1.00 lb in the 4-5 wts. The beef feeder market here has also tanked. Most are in the .80's for heifers and 1.25 +/- for steers in the 4-6 wts.
There was a bred heifer sale recently. Due to calve in the spring, weighed an average 1,000 lbs.... they brought $700 to $800 a head.
I have turned my nurse cows out with their calves. They will raise one batch of 3 each average this year. Not worth the extra grain. I am creep feeding the calves in a manner. They come in through a creep gate and I feed them some grain so they can get some away from the cows. Not alot, but it makes them easier to catch up and handle. They see me and come in rather than run the other way; makes doing anything with them less stressful. They also get some decent grass hay in the manger in the barn so can eat in peace. Teaches them to be "bunk broke" and used to people around them.
Realize something also. Not alot of cows will make good nurse cows. For every good one, you might go through 2 or 3 or 5. Some are "born to be momma's" and some are absolute witches to get to take anything but their own calf. If you have to fight them, and they want to fight the calf, the calves won't do good. Nurse cows take a whole different mindset. My son will tell you because he is the first one to say he will NEVER deal with nurse cows. That's my job... Patience takes on a whole new meaning.... Many cows off a commercial dairy also do not do good because they often have never had a calf on them. The instinct has been bred out of alot of them over the years. I have 5 now, and one will leave when her calf does. I have fought with her for 2 previous lactations and am done. One is a peach and will take anything.... the others do okay.

Thank you for the detailed comment. The feeder calf market where I'm at isn't that bad but we just pulled out of one similar. Heifers gong for under a dollar a pound were not uncommon about two years ago back home. I'll probably be doing a majority of dairy bull calves if I do this; this is why I also want to pair it with stocking light calves to help with cash flow. Rotational grazing will be my top priority. Bottle Calves seem to fluctuate where I'm at. Most people pull at least one twin off the cow where I'm at if they have them. I'd like to pick them up for the right price if possible.

 

[jschoolcraft86]

Are you familiar with embryo recip programs? It's more labor intensive and you need to know about embryo transfers or know someone who does, but it seems promising. I dipped my toe in with 10 head this fall just to see how it worked and I am about to move another 25 head into the program shortly. Like I said before it is definitely more involved, but I'm able to invoice in thirds (60 days confirmed bred, at live birth, and at 4 months when they come get the calves) and each 1/3 brings about 100 less than the full sale price of the commercial calves before.

I'm not experienced enough with the program to swear by it but it definitely seems promising to me so far.

 

[Dirt Farmer]

Two things come to mind for me. As with any investment, diversity is a good thing. With work, do what you enjoy. I'd put pencil to paper and try out multiple things to see what works best financially and what you like. It also just depends on input and cattle prices.

 

[cowboy43]

After reading all comments my first thought is: how will you make a living to pay your bills, you will have to have an outside job to pay your living cost and be prepared to put some of your outside income into your farming operation. If you get married that a whole new ball game. All ventures mentioned are labor intensive and demanding. Cow- calf operation is the only one that will let you work off the farm. In all reality with a 500 head cow operation you will be lucky to make minumin wage or a little more.
500 head with a $50 profit per head = $25000 profit per year. Do not give up your dream but get an good paying outside job and start off small and learn by making mistakes . I do not know anyone in the cattle business (unless they inherited it all or were born with a silver spoon in their mouth) that does not have an outside job to support their addicition to ranching. :cboy: my :2cents: