New to cattle raising

Help Support CattleToday:

bscattle said:
Thank you for your replies, you gave me a lot to think about and discuss with the others that want to take part in this adventure if you will.. I will try to answer some of your questions.
* Location: Northeastern part of Oklahoma (Ochelata, OK/Washington County)
* We have 10 acres that we need to finish fencing. We have the t-posts, but we will need to get the barb wire. We are aware that we cannot start this without putting money into it.
* We will brush hog the 10 acres, I do believe that there is Bermuda grass under all the weeds along with some other grasses. I have no doubt that I can get the grass to grow if we can keep the weeds mowed down.
* My boyfriend has a friend that has 3 brangus calves, he said that he would let us have them for $500 per head.
* I have express to my boyfriend and our friends that I think it would be a good idea to visit some local sale barns to see what breeds are going for at the best prices.
* I am aware of what it takes to take care of livestock, I have 2 horses. I know its a lot of hard work.
* I have relative that use to raise red angus in Colorado, we are friend on FB and she would talk about all the work she had to do especially during winter - and she used horses to do the round up and go check on calves in the middle of winter etc...
* Water source - 2 ponds on the 10 acres -
*There is a barn where we can store hay
* I have a truck and trailer
* The vet that I use for my horses also does cattle and owns them himself.
* the heifers and the bull calf all come from the same bull

So from what I am understand we need to figure out what kind of operation do we want to do:
Do we want to get calves raise them and feed them to take to slaughter, then buy more calves and repeat the process?
Do we want to get the 2 heifers, get another bull - and after all are of breeding age let the heifers have calves - wean the calves to take to slaughter while breeding the cows again until they are no longer breeding age... which is a cow herd, right?

During the winter I think most people around where we live try to sustain their cattle on their pasture and hay. But I do understand that depending on pasture that you may need to feed grain of some sort... correct?

I hope my reply has helped you to help me... if not I will try to answer more of your questions.
Again, thank you for your replies, they have given us a lot of things to think about.
Click to expand...
U got a lot figured out already.

Personally, the FIRST thing I'd do is steer that bull calf!
Having a breeding stock program on 10 acres will most likely not be a profitable venture. Spend your money how you see fit.
The calves are cheap imo.
Raise em up and eat em.

Now I'm partial to nurse cows. But I've got a small herd of commercial mamas. Most with a little ear. (Brangus based. Mostly)
I do a bit of trading as well. And dabble with a couple cheaper stocker calves. Gotta get in when the opportunity presents itself. There are good deals all the time. Just have to be present to get em.

On 10 acres, I'd either have a couple nice jerseys raising babies. Or run a few stockers to grow and re-sell or eat. Or I suppose a couple older bred cows to calve out and re-sell.

For the financial part, check out this thread!

Eleanor (Profitability from Jersey cows)

Noooo. Not THAT Eleanor! This one! Bessie approved! Ok. So I said I was gonna do it. Here we go-go! Cow - $1300 140lb Steer - $120 80lb Heifer - $50 90lb Heifer - $50 Veterinary - $45 (band bull and vax all) Transportation - $50 (gotta pay for fuel) So the Young Jersey cow and Calves...
www.cattletoday.com www.cattletoday.com
 
Before you buy the $500 calves, I would suggest you take a picture of them on the cow and post it here. Selling a 500 pound calf for $500 just seems really suspicious. It has been a long time since a sound healthy 500 pound calf was available at that price and this year calves are selling at an all time high. Even better than in 2014. The seller will have much more than $500 in expenses in that calf and cow, by the time the calf reaches weaning age. I don't see how the seller can afford to sell those three calves for $500 each, or why they would do that.
 
Thank you for the replies, again lots of good sound advice that I can take back to our friends and we can discuss, I am taking notes! ;)

The 3 weanling calves we are looking at to purchase is from a guy (Dustin) that my boyfriend worked with, he was talking with him about his cattle idea and the guy offered his 3 calves... Dustin has the braham bull and the 3 mommas - they are very friendly and easy going. As in you can walk up to them and pet them, and they come up to you... we are going to try to see them this Thursday, if we do I will get pictures and post them.

What age do farmers/rancher usually try to wean calves?

One of the suggestions that I received was from @Mark Reynolds advising that we need to decide on what kind of operation do we want. Raise these 3 calves and take them to slaughter or buy cows that are calf and raise them up to send to slaughter - and what age and weight do we take calves to slaughter - and I agree and understand about managing the pastures. Giving them time to rest and grow back.

Fencing question - we are thinking 4 to 5 strand - can we get by with 4 strand with electic at the top.

I do not have cattle panels or anything like that - but I will make note of it and bring it up - I do think we need a holding pen or some sort. The barn they have does have 2 stalls. I am thinking that maybe we can building a holding pen maybe off the side of the barn...

@Sthrncwboy just trying to understand - so its more profitable to buy a cow that's already bred, take her home let her have her calf then sell her and her baby when it's 2 to 3 months old, and repeat the process? Instead of raising calves and fatten up a calf to send to slaughter?

You said that it would be good to keep them in a holding pen and feed them sweet feed for like a week before turning them out to pasture. What sweet feed would you recommend?

When you say Bessies - do you mean like Jersey or Holstein cows?

My horses - Chief and Scout - Missouri Foxtrotters - half brothers - same dam different sires - to be honest with you I don't do much with them - they are just pasture ornaments but I do love them - I do hope to start riding Chief more though. Oh question - could I put the horses and the calves together or should I keep them separate - I do know they have different grazing patterns and that is a concern I have. My idea was to keep them separate... right now I have them at a boarding facitlity about 2 miles from where I currently live. They are on 2.5 acres and its not a very well maintained pasture.

@devonian you are correct we do not have very lush grassland around where we are at BUT I do believe that if we work at it we can have some pretty good pasture land.

@sunnyblueskies yes we do have some one there that can check on the cattle daily - he lives right there on the property. Winters here can be hard with freezing temps, winds, ice/freezing rain... since I have to buy hay for my horses - we can get hay for the calves if we decide to go with these 3 babies - if not I am going to say we need to wait until spring to buy calves or cows.

And going to the auction and seeing what doesn't sell is a good thought also, never thought of it that way.

More to come later promise...
 
bscattle said:
Thank you for the replies, again lots of good sound advice that I can take back to our friends and we can discuss, I am taking notes! ;)

What age do farmers/rancher usually try to wean calves?
Click to expand...

The industry standard is 205 days to weaning. This has been the time frame that most calves get sold, cows are given the time to recondition before their next birth, and the industry has adapted to that schedule. This also give people a consistent time for comparing animals retained for breeding, both females and males, so people have something they can compare. You will see animals with notes that say 205 day (adj or actual) weaning weight. The actual weaning weight means they actually weighed the calf at 205 days and (adj) means they used a formula to determine the 205 day weaning weight at 205 days.

I am thinking that maybe we can building a holding pen maybe off the side of the barn...

That will do just fine. Your vet will appreciate it and so will you once you have the need... and you WILL have the need.

bscattle said:
@Sthrncwboy just trying to understand - so its more profitable to buy a cow that's already bred, take her home let her have her calf then sell her and her baby when it's 2 to 3 months old, and repeat the process? Instead of raising calves and fatten up a calf to send to slaughter?
Click to expand...

What is or isn't profitable has a lot to do with market forces and your own area and what you find in the moment. The three calves you mentioned sound like a gift... until you post pictures and we find out they are dwarf mini highlanders with birth defects and two heads. This is where you have to learn for yourself what works best and we can offer our own experiences but they don't always translate to some other place or people.


You said that it would be good to keep them in a holding pen and feed them sweet feed for like a week before turning them out to pasture. What sweet feed would you recommend?

Any kind of feed that cattle like works. They only need enough to make them friendly... not a ton of feed to make them over fat. Friendly good... fat bad unless you are slaughtering them.

bscattle said:
And going to the auction and seeing what doesn't sell is a good thought also, never thought of it that way.

More to come later promise...
Click to expand...
10-4
 
Last edited:
My Dad bought me a day old Holstein bull calf to raise when I was 8 years old in 1959. I have owned cattle pretty much continually since them. At one point or another I have tried most every scenario there is. Presently I have been buying older bred cows. Calving them out and selling them at a later day. That later date is not 2 or 3 months. I want calves born in February and March. The cows leave in mid August before the kill cow market drops. Shipping the cows weans the calves. The calves get sold 45-60 days later before we have to start winter feeding. This has worked good for me but not one I would recommenced for a beginner. A lot of the success or failure in this program is in the buying. That takes some time to develop the eye for. What I did for years after that first bottle calf was to buy light yearlings in the late winter (before grass fever hits the market). Graze them over the spring and summer. Then finish them to slaughter in the fall. Sold halves and quarters of beef. This can be profitable and is one of the quickest turn around for your money. The idea of buying heifers, feed until old enough to breed, calf them out, and feed the calves for 18 months to sell as beef, I have never figured out how this pencils. There is a lot time between your first expense and the first money coming in.
 
It appears that at the Tulsa Stockyards, a 500 pound brought $2.70 per pound or more ($1,350+). It looks like you could make the most money by buying the calves for $500 and going straight to the sale with them. Something sure seems wrong with this scenario. If they are good calves, I would feel really guilty taking advantage of a friend like that.

You mention that you're considering running two horses on that 10 acres with the three calves. That might work, but many horses can be quite aggressive with calves. They will often dominate them and keep them off any feed you bring. If a horse decides to kick a calf, the calf could be seriously hurt or even killed. This is just my opinion based on my own horses, but I wouldn't do it. I would do it on a 100 acres, where they could keep plenty of distance between each other, but I would be careful to never offer the calves feed when the horses were around.

I also suspect there would not be enough grass for 3 calves and two horses. I looked up your location and I see you get 47 inches of rain per year, so you could feed a lot more animals on 10 acres than much of the country, but 10 acres isn't very big and horses are much harder on pasture.
 
Katpau said:
It appears that at the Tulsa Stockyards, a 500 pound brought $2.70 per pound or more ($1,350+). It looks like you could make the most money by buying the calves for $500 and going straight to the sale with them. Something sure seems wrong with this scenario. If they are good calves, I would feel really guilty taking advantage of a friend like that.

You mention that you're considering running two horses on that 10 acres with the three calves. That might work, but many horses can be quite aggressive with calves. They will often dominate them and keep them off any feed you bring. If a horse decides to kick a calf, the calf could be seriously hurt or even killed. This is just my opinion based on my own horses, but I wouldn't do it. I would do it on a 100 acres, where they could keep plenty of distance between each other, but I would be careful to never offer the calves feed when the horses were around.

I also suspect there would not be enough grass for 3 calves and two horses. I looked up your location and I see you get 47 inches of rain per year, so you could feed a lot more animals on 10 acres than much of the country, but 10 acres isn't very big and horses are much harder on pasture.
Click to expand...

I am glad you mention the fact that horses can be dominant seriously injure the calves. So that decided the horse/calves together scenario. So, after we get it mowed down, I am wanting to walk the pasture to see what grass is underneath... and i can also see what I can arrange to get the horses their own place down by the barn.

Also, right now the horses are fine where they are at - but eventually I would like to move them out there.
 
sunnyblueskies said:
I agree with what others have said. Fence fence fence...........and a smaller size pen you could lock them in for a while, or if you need to catch and treat them. Buying those 3 calves for what your friend is willing to give them to you is a steal. Go for it, but I would castrate the bull and feed him to an acceptable butcher weight. Don't keep a bull around for 2 heifers/cows.
Ok, so you would have the expense of the fencing, which would be a high original investment, you talk about brushing and then just weeds?! Is it brush which needs to be taken care of with a mulcher and a cat? Or is it just overgrown with grass and weeds?
Click to expand...

Its just overgrown with weeds, the grass I did see looked to be good grass -
So am I correct - that cattle need the grass to be 8 to 10 inches? and when they graze the grass down to 3 to 4 that's when you would move them to other pasture to let the first pasture rest?
sunnyblueskies said:
It always comes back to money. Where would you get your additional feed from, ie hay? Some years you can find that in abundance, but if you look at this year........ it will come with a high price tag if you have to buy. Something to consider.
Click to expand...
I might be able to buy some round bales from the people that I get my square bales from for my horses.
sunnyblueskies said:
Another question I just thought of: How far from your or your friends residence are these 10 acres? If you plan on having even only one bred cow......... you or your friend would have to keep your eyes on her before she give birth. Simply wouldn't be feasible or logical to have these 10 acres somewhere away from where either of you are.
Don't know how your winters are, but who will feed in the winter? Always the person which lives there?
Besides all the animal stuff. Let's talk money.
Friends and money........ never a good mix, friendships end, relationships fail ........ if it is 'their' 10 acres, who is going to pay for the fence? Are you prepared to walk out of this with nothing if the plan falls apart? If not, you better write up a contract or something acceptable to everyone involved.
Click to expand...
Something to think about for sure.
sunnyblueskies said:
Another point, you were talking about going to the sales barn to see what breed sells best. Oh boy, that's a can of worms where everyone here will have a different opinion I'm sure. Honestly, you will never be able to raise the buyers perfect cattle, because they keep changing their minds on what they like and by the time you have changed your breeding program to what they liked......... they are on to something else. Just make note of what doesn't sell at the sale barn.
I'm absolutely not trying to deter you from having a cow or two with your friends, there is just a lot of pre-work and investment to get to that point in your situation.
Click to expand...

I appreciate your suggestions/advise - and never thought about looking at what isn't selling at the sales barn
sunnyblueskies said:
Get all of that taken care of, get your few animals, your feed, fall in love with your calves. Perfect world.
And then the phonecall comes, "cows are out", you were just ready to go to a birthday party or a wedding......... cows come first.
You are waiting for your first calf to be born, it's time, the cow needs help. You end up being covered in ****, blood, afterbirth and slime. Ready for that?
It's a commitment. If you do commit......... I promise there will be nice moments too.
Click to expand...
I am excited - but I want us to be prepared and have a plan drawn up before jumping into something like this.
 
Katpau said:
It appears that at the Tulsa Stockyards, a 500 pound brought $2.70 per pound or more ($1,350+). It looks like you could make the most money by buying the calves for $500 and going straight to the sale with them. Something sure seems wrong with this scenario. If they are good calves, I would feel really guilty taking advantage of a friend like that.

You mention that you're considering running two horses on that 10 acres with the three calves. That might work, but many horses can be quite aggressive with calves. They will often dominate them and keep them off any feed you bring. If a horse decides to kick a calf, the calf could be seriously hurt or even killed. This is just my opinion based on my own horses, but I wouldn't do it. I would do it on a 100 acres, where they could keep plenty of distance between each other, but I would be careful to never offer the calves feed when the horses were around.

I also suspect there would not be enough grass for 3 calves and two horses. I looked up your location and I see you get 47 inches of rain per year, so you could feed a lot more animals on 10 acres than much of the country, but 10 acres isn't very big and horses are much harder on pasture.
Click to expand...
A buddy of mine has a horse that will pick up a newborn calf and kill it, so he will not put it in with his cows when calving.
 
bscattle said:
Thank you for the replies, again lots of good sound advice that I can take back to our friends and we can discuss, I am taking notes! ;)

The 3 weanling calves we are looking at to purchase is from a guy (Dustin) that my boyfriend worked with, he was talking with him about his cattle idea and the guy offered his 3 calves... Dustin has the braham bull and the 3 mommas - they are very friendly and easy going. As in you can walk up to them and pet them, and they come up to you... we are going to try to see them this Thursday, if we do I will get pictures and post them.
Click to expand...
Ok so not Brangus, but 1/2 Brahma half Angus or some other black cow? Still a bargain at $500 each.
bscattle said:
What age do farmers/rancher usually try to wean calves?
6 months plumb up to 7 or 8, depending on what you are doing with them.

One of the suggestions that I received was from @Mark Reynolds advising that we need to decide on what kind of operation do we want. Raise these 3 calves and take them to slaughter or buy cows that are calf and raise them up to send to slaughter - and what age and weight do we take calves to slaughter - and I agree and understand about managing the pastures. Giving them time to rest and grow back.

Fencing question - we are thinking 4 to 5 strand - can we get by with 4 strand with electic at the top.

With cattle, pout the electric wire in the middle

I do not have cattle panels or anything like that - but I will make note of it and bring it up - I do think we need a holding pen or some sort. The barn they have does have 2 stalls. I am thinking that maybe we can building a holding pen maybe off the side of the barn...

@Sthrncwboy just trying to understand - so its more profitable to buy a cow that's already bred, take her home let her have her calf then sell her and her baby when it's 2 to 3 months old, and repeat the process? Instead of raising calves and fatten up a calf to send to slaughter? Oh God yes. When you start going to sales, pay attention to what a heavy bred cow brings and what a pair brings. Buy a 7 or 8 month bred cow in March,take it to the sale when the calf is 3 months old, You can do this twice before winter and you won't have to buy feed. You can easily do 2 - 3 at a time on a 10 acre Bermuda field.

You said that it would be good to keep them in a holding pen and feed them sweet feed for like a week before turning them out to pasture. What sweet feed would you recommend?
Any cheap 10% sweet feed. It is just to get them used to coming in the pen after they are turned out.

When you say Bessies - do you mean like Jersey or Holstein cows? @Sthrncwboy had referred you to @MurraysMutts threads about his nurse cows. When you read them, you will learn about Bessie, a Jersey cow anyone on this forum would give their eye tooth for.

My horses - Chief and Scout - Missouri Foxtrotters - half brothers - same dam different sires - to be honest with you I don't do much with them - they are just pasture ornaments but I do love them - I do hope to start riding Chief more though. Oh question - could I put the horses and the calves together or should I keep them separate - I do know they have different grazing patterns and that is a concern I have. My idea was to keep them separate... right now I have them at a boarding facitlity about 2 miles from where I currently live. They are on 2.5 acres and its not a very well maintained pasture. You can. Not the ideal situation, because like you said, they graze different. A horse won't eat where he has crapped if he can help it. Your horse pasture will be a field with no or very short grass, with clumps of tall, lush gras where they have pooped. A cow wil eat that gras though. While you are fencing, go ahead and cut it in half with a cross fence, and swap them out ever so often. There have been some geldings that have injured new foals and sometimes new calves.. usually trying to steal them. But not much to worry about with 500 lb calves. I'd put those 3 calves in the pasture first, and after a week or so, add the horses. You have a two stall barn, IF you plan on feeding the horses, give them a coffee can of feed once q day, and feed them in those 2 stalls, Same stall for each horse every time. Be careful in the spring. A lush pasture with knee-deep green grass is deadly to a horse. You will blow the feet right off of them.
Click to expand...

bscattle said:
@devonian you are correct we do not have very lush grassland around where we are at BUT I do believe that if we work at it we can have some pretty good pasture land.

@sunnyblueskies yes we do have some one there that can check on the cattle daily - he lives right there on the property. Winters here can be hard with freezing temps, winds, ice/freezing rain... since I have to buy hay for my horses - we can get hay for the calves if we decide to go with these 3 babies - if not I am going to say we need to wait until spring to buy calves or cows.

And going to the auction and seeing what doesn't sell is a good thought also, never thought of it that way.

More to come later promise...
Click to expand...
 
bscattle said:
Its just overgrown with weeds, the grass I did see looked to be good grass -
So am I correct - that cattle need the grass to be 8 to 10 inches? and when they graze the grass down to 3 to 4 that's when you would move them to other pasture to let the first pasture rest?
Click to expand...
I kinda figured that would be the story, that's why I said the bush hogging is a non-issue. I suspected when you said there was bermuda, that there was grass under the weeds. Go ahead and put the calves in, and you can bush hog if you want to after they are in there, Just don't want to bush hog when the weeds are seeded out. WHen the weeds forst strat shpowing in March, while the bermuda is dormant, spray the pasture with 2-4-D and you wont have any weeds .
 
bscattle said:
Thank you for the replies, again lots of good sound advice that I can take back to our friends and we can discuss, I am taking notes! ;)



More to come later promise...
Click to expand...
I have to laugh, not at you or your answers or questions. But the scenario. We are all jumping at you with reasoning, ideas, input, more questions etc. And you have a big homework assignment to answer them all and you do.
In the end you will have to learn on your own, mistakes will be made, joy will be had, tears will fall and a lot of swearing too.
P.S.: you wouldn't want the electric wire on top, at least one down, they are calves, not horses. They will try to crawl through. =)
 
sunnyblueskies said:
I have to laugh, not at you or your answers or questions. But the scenario. We are all jumping at you with reasoning, ideas, input, more questions etc. And you have a big homework assignment to answer them all and you do.
In the end you will have to learn on your own, mistakes will be made, joy will be had, tears will fall and a lot of swearing too.
P.S.: you wouldn't want the electric wire on top, at least one down, they are calves, not horses. They will try to crawl through. =)
Click to expand...

Putting the electric in the middle makes sense - I always see them at the top
When we got into fish tanks (2 55g, 2 75g, 1 120g) - I have notebooks full of notes that I have taken from watching videos on all things fish

And I know that with cattle or horses even pigs/goats etc... there are going to be mistakes made, things will happen etc... but i like to be prepared as much as I can going into something. And with all the ideas that you all are giving me I want to be able to take the ideas to our partners etc...
 
@bscattle , Loads of great advice in this forum. Investing lots of dollars (& your time) in fencing 10 acres with gates and corral on someone else's land is rough, costly and RISKY. But if you enjoy fencing the 10 acres and have a good solid water-source even for drought years...I'd say go for it. 10 acres won't make you rich but could pay your yearly property taxes, vehicle insurance. You can learn and then expand, lease. Partners involved (be wary-forewarned)...the person that enjoys fencing and loves-cares for the cattle will be doing all the work and the rest of the partners will ride his/her/your coattails....so, please don't do a partnership on your first cattle expedition.
 

Similar threads

P
New to cattle
Replies
10
Views
721
Rafter S
Rafter S
S
New to Cattle Today
2
Replies
23
Views
1K
Travlr
Travlr
R
North Alabama new herd
Replies
18
Views
366
Rising2KRanch
R
S
New to Cattle and Cattle Today
2
Replies
29
Views
2K
MTaylor
MTaylor
C
Looking for someone who needs to Lease/Rent pasture for Cattle. Dayton Texas.
Replies
1
Views
165
greybeard
greybeard

Latest posts

Top