New Hereford Calves

[Logan52]

It is not just CAB.
Today all commodities are forced to "fit the box". That is how we get tomatoes that are pretty and red yet taste like cardboard, apples at Wal-Mart that look nice but are nigh inedible. Quality once paid in burley tobacco, but today few raise it at all.
What happened to chicken and hog breeds is coming to cattle.

 

[Ky hills]

It is not just CAB.
Today all commodities are forced to "fit the box". That is how we get tomatoes that are pretty and red yet taste like cardboard, apples at Wal-Mart that look nice but are nigh inedible. Quality once paid in burley tobacco, but today few raise it at all.
What happened to chicken and hog breeds is coming to cattle.

You're right. The fit the box concept and all other stuff like tomatoes that are prioritizing made to ship rather than to eat, are indicative of where we have become once we got away from the concept of local production.
Everything has gotten big and specialized into corporate multinational companies supplying national and international chain stores.
I was in a local sheep meeting years ago and on the last a conversation about the tobacco industry came up after the meeting. It was at a time when contracts were starting to be the way of it.
One of the men was saying that the big company had pretty much pulled out of the US as a result of all the tobacco lawsuits. They had rearranged their company to a global entity headquartered out of the country and we're moving more of their production out of the US as well. Reason being he said was that new markets for selling tobacco products were opening up in other countries and those new to the products weren't set on a certain quality product as were American smokers who were accustomed to our burley grown here.

 

[Stonewall Joe]

the mark

That's what we do too, sell the black ones and pick red calves to feed out for beef. We haven't been disappointed yet, and our beef is better than grocery store beef even though it's labeled as "Angus".
I agree CAB has really hurt across the board. It was a marketing strategy that just came along at the right time. It's really quite ridiculous how people have fallen for it.

Starbucks coffee is highly acidic, mediocre at best coffee, served at a temperature that no human could put in their mouth and delivered in a cup that's only 2/3 full so you can add enough stuff to overcome the poor taste, yet marketing has millions convinced it's worth 5.00 a cup. It's a perception of value they are selling. There are lots of other brands which are better tasting selling for half of that, does that mean Starbucks has driven down the price of other coffees? The CAB marketing strategy (which worked) was to bring more value to the angus influenced breed so that buyers would pay a premium and they do. It's another perception of value brought about by marketing. The result is that non angus breeds bring less. It's not a 'dock" on the non-black beef, it's not saying the others are worth less physically, just financially. It's saying that because of the program, like it or not, the black cattle bring more because of their program. With the CAB and their success in marketing, if you choose not to raise black cattle for whatever reason, and you know that a black calf with approximately the same input will bring more than a non-black calf, then you are docking yourself due to personal preference because you choose not to create a product that will bring more. It's the same as if people choose to pay more for a red car and GM decided to paint all of theirs green, color would determine the desire of people to buy. . Our cattle are getting blacker as a whole on our place, because they bring more. My wife likes to look at the pretty colored cattle so we try to have a bull to produce black babies. We have a really nice sim-angus bull, he is not homozygous, babies are usually black, some with a little white on their faces, but we get an occasional colored calf that is every bit as good if not better than the others. But due to my liking of that bull we will have a calf that sells for less for the next year or 2 and I'll switch to a homozygous black bull then

 

[Ky hills]

the mark

Starbucks coffee is highly acidic, mediocre at best coffee, served at a temperature that no human could put in their mouth and delivered in a cup that's only 2/3 full so you can add enough stuff to overcome the poor taste, yet marketing has millions convinced it's worth 5.00 a cup. It's a perception of value they are selling. There are lots of other brands which are better tasting selling for half of that, does that mean Starbucks has driven down the price of other coffees? The CAB marketing strategy (which worked) was to bring more value to the angus influenced breed so that buyers would pay a premium and they do. It's another perception of value brought about by marketing. The result is that non angus breeds bring less. It's not a 'dock" on the non-black beef, it's not saying the others are worth less physically, just financially. It's saying that because of the program, like it or not, the black cattle bring more because of their program. With the CAB and their success in marketing, if you choose not to raise black cattle for whatever reason, and you know that a black calf with approximately the same input will bring more than a non-black calf, then you are docking yourself due to personal preference because you choose not to create a product that will bring more. It's the same as if people choose to pay more for a red car and GM decided to paint all of theirs green, color would determine the desire of people to buy. . Our cattle are getting blacker as a whole on our place, because they bring more. My wife likes to look at the pretty colored cattle so we try to have a bull to produce black babies. We have a really nice sim-angus bull, he is not homozygous, babies are usually black, some with a little white on their faces, but we get an occasional colored calf that is every bit as good if not better than the others. But due to my liking of that bull we will have a calf that sells for less for the next year or 2 and I'll switch to a homozygous black bull then

I've heard it stated that way many times, but… around this time last year, I read in a market report put out by the state dept of ag in which it plainly stated in its description of the days sale that non black calves and fleshy calves received a dock. Apparently that representative did not get the memo to call it something else. It is common see it worded as a dock or discount in reference to non black calves.

 

[Travlr]

the mark

Starbucks coffee is highly acidic, mediocre at best coffee, served at a temperature that no human could put in their mouth and delivered in a cup that's only 2/3 full so you can add enough stuff to overcome the poor taste, yet marketing has millions convinced it's worth 5.00 a cup. It's a perception of value they are selling. There are lots of other brands which are better tasting selling for half of that, does that mean Starbucks has driven down the price of other coffees? The CAB marketing strategy (which worked) was to bring more value to the angus influenced breed so that buyers would pay a premium and they do. It's another perception of value brought about by marketing. The result is that non angus breeds bring less. It's not a 'dock" on the non-black beef, it's not saying the others are worth less physically, just financially. It's saying that because of the program, like it or not, the black cattle bring more because of their program. With the CAB and their success in marketing, if you choose not to raise black cattle for whatever reason, and you know that a black calf with approximately the same input will bring more than a non-black calf, then you are docking yourself due to personal preference because you choose not to create a product that will bring more. It's the same as if people choose to pay more for a red car and GM decided to paint all of theirs green, color would determine the desire of people to buy. . Our cattle are getting blacker as a whole on our place, because they bring more. My wife likes to look at the pretty colored cattle so we try to have a bull to produce black babies. We have a really nice sim-angus bull, he is not homozygous, babies are usually black, some with a little white on their faces, but we get an occasional colored calf that is every bit as good if not better than the others. But due to my liking of that bull we will have a calf that sells for less for the next year or 2 and I'll switch to a homozygous black bull then

When you have a limited amount of money in a marketplace... as all markets do... and one product has a perceived value that is greater than another and gets a higher price, then it doesn't matter what you call it, dock or premium is functionally opposite ends of the same thing to those selling product. And when the perceived value is unjustified and only benefiting a single average product at the expense of all others and their efforts, it is not good for the entire industry.

The CAB debacle is so pervasive that if two groups of calves go through a sale that will never qualify for CAB... one group black and the other any other color... the black ones that won't qualify for CAB will still get the stinkin' "premium" and the other group that's just as good will get "docked" for being a color that isn't black.

 

[Ky hills]

 

[SDM]

Are there still other Angus branded programs? There used to be one "Silver" something or other and I think I remember others. I remember seeing and buying Certified Hereford Beef 20 years ago and girl I was in school with had an internship one summer with that program, out west some where. Never see it around here now.

 

[Ky hills]

Are there still other Angus branded programs? There used to be one "Silver" something or other and I think I remember others. I remember seeing and buying Certified Hereford Beef 20 years ago and girl I was in school with had an internship one summer with that program, out west some where. Never see it around here now.

The calves that sell in the Hereford Influence sale I posted about above have always been said to qualify for the Certified Hereford Beef program.

 

[SDM]

So it is still around. We only have one grocery store chain around here besides Walmart. They don't have anything branded. Walmart I think has something labeled Angus but I could be wrong because I avoid that place like the plague and never buy meat there. If we go "into town" we usually end up at Costco. I need to see where the CHB is offered. I'd like to try some if it's available halfway close by.

 

[Ky hills]

So it is still around. We only have one grocery store chain around here besides Walmart. They don't have anything branded. Walmart I think has something labeled Angus but I could be wrong because I avoid that place like the plague and never buy meat there. If we go "into town" we usually end up at Costco. I need to see where the CHB is offered. I'd like to try some if it's available halfway close by.

I just looked up the CHB website and it has a store/restaurant locator within the menu button.
It looks the store that used to sell it not too far from us is no longer in business, the closest retail store I could find was 81 miles away. There was some sort of bar/restaurant around 20 miles away that is said to serve CHB.

Homepage - Certified Hereford Beef

www.certifiedherefordbeef.com

 

[M.Magis]

Our local grocery store cuts their own and carriers only CHB. I've never been able to find CHBs criteria, but its clearly well below CAB. I finally told my wife to stop buying steaks there. The Choice steaks at Walmart and Aldis, our only other options, are far better. CHB isn't doing the breed any favors.

 

[Travlr]

Our local grocery store cuts their own and carriers only CHB. I've never been able to find CHBs criteria, but its clearly well below CAB. I finally told my wife to stop buying steaks there. The Choice steaks at Walmart and Aldis, our only other options, are far better. CHB isn't doing the breed any favors.

It wasn't hard to find...

LIVE ANIMAL SPECIFICATIONS

• Must have a predominately (51%) white face
• Hereford & Hereford-English crossbred cattle (Herefords, Black Baldies, Red Baldies)
• Beef type breeding only
• NO dairy breeding
• NO excessive hump – bos indicus influence
• NO bulls, cows or heiferettes
• Cattle may be either horned or polled

CARCASS SPECIFICATIONS

• Marbling score
  • CHB – Small 00 and higher (Choice and higher)
  • CHB Premium – Modest 00 and higher (upper 2/3 Choice and higher)
• "A" maturity only
• Medium or fine texture marbling
• 10-162 Ribeye Area
• Less than 1" fat cover
• Hot carcass weight of 1050 lbs. or less
• Moderately thick or thicker muscling
• Less than 2" hump
• NO dark cutters
• NO capillary rupture

 

[M.Magis]

It wasn't hard to find...

LIVE ANIMAL SPECIFICATIONS

• Must have a predominately (51%) white face
• Hereford & Hereford-English crossbred cattle (Herefords, Black Baldies, Red Baldies)
• Beef type breeding only
• NO dairy breeding
• NO excessive hump – bos indicus influence
• NO bulls, cows or heiferettes
• Cattle may be either horned or polled

CARCASS SPECIFICATIONS

• Marbling score
  • CHB – Small 00 and higher (Choice and higher)
  • CHB Premium – Modest 00 and higher (upper 2/3 Choice and higher)
• "A" maturity only
• Medium or fine texture marbling
• 10-162 Ribeye Area
• Less than 1" fat cover
• Hot carcass weight of 1050 lbs. or less
• Moderately thick or thicker muscling
• Less than 2" hump
• NO dark cutters
• NO capillary rupture

I quit looking years ago. I assure you, it wasn't anywhere to be found at that time.

 

[Stonewall Joe]

When you have a limited amount of money in a marketplace... as all markets do... and one product has a perceived value that is greater than another and gets a higher price, then it doesn't matter what you call it, dock or premium is functionally opposite ends of the same thing to those selling product. And when the perceived value is unjustified and only benefiting a single average product at the expense of all others and their efforts, it is not good for the entire industry.

The CAB debacle is so pervasive that if two groups of calves go through a sale that will never qualify for CAB... one group black and the other any other color... the black ones that won't qualify for CAB will still get the stinkin' "premium" and the other group that's just as good will get "docked" for being a color that isn't black.

If you go to a sale and there are no black calves, the red calves will bring what they bring regardless of whether there's a black calf there or not. There is no "dock" , when you go to the next sale the red calves will bring the same as at the last sale but when a black one shows up the black one brings more with no effect on the red calf price. That is not a dock for red, it is a premium for black. Some claim that's unfair but still raise other colored calves and complain even when they know it's going to happen

 

[Travlr]

That is not a dock for red, it is a premium for black. Some claim that's unfair but still raise other colored calves and complain even when they know it's going to happen

It's unfair because the "premium" based on color has nothing to do with quality, or effort, or inputs... but only a fake relationship with a certification program that means nothing except as a marketing campaign sold to the ignorant, with no real value.

When one person gets paid more for producing an orange widgit and another gets less for a green widgit, both widgets being equal in every way except for color, the "premium" for one is a "dock" for the other.

It's nothing more than a slick marketing strategy that has worked much better than it deserves. And it's hurting individual high quality producers and the industry as a whole.

If you can tell the difference between a carcass that grades choice and another carcass that grades choice... never seeing what color the animal was before it was skinned... then you can say it's fair. Until you can do that... it isn't fair.

 

[StrojanHerefords]

Certified Hereford Beef can be select. Certified Angus Beef is a grade between choice and prime. It is easy to envision a lot of black baldy carcasses being sorted with the high end going to CAB and the bottom end going to CHB. Of course, the consumer is going to think less of Hereford cattle. I am sick of the Hereford breed being the Kansas City Athletics of the beef world.
https://www.herefordsaustralia.com....vZpZDXusr_0Ag3Fwj--pmhODetU5lINhNt-BnMWbCrLQMDevon Court Herefords in Australia had a Hereford steer gain 7 pounds a day on test. There are good Herefords out there.

 

[Allenw]

Our local grocery store cuts their own and carriers only CHB. I've never been able to find CHBs criteria, but its clearly well below CAB. I finally told my wife to stop buying steaks there. The Choice steaks at Walmart and Aldis, our only other options, are far better. CHB isn't doing the breed any favors.

CHB buyer wouldn't buy dad's Hereford calves when they went through the ring because they brought to much. It has been a number of years ago but that line of thinking floored me.

CHB is operated differently then the CAB program.

 

[Stonewall Joe]

It's unfair because the "premium" based on color has nothing to do with quality, or effort, or inputs... but only a fake relationship with a certification program that means nothing except as a marketing campaign sold to the ignorant, with no real value.

When one person gets paid more for producing an orange widgit and another gets less for a green widgit, both widgets being equal in every way except for color, the "premium" for one is a "dock" for the other.

It's nothing more than a slick marketing strategy that has worked much better than it deserves. And it's hurting individual high quality producers and the industry as a whole.

If you can tell the difference between a carcass that grades choice and another carcass that grades choice... never seeing what color the animal was before it was skinned... then you can say it's fair. Until you can do that... it isn't fair.

Why do you expect life to be fair. the market sets fairness. Demand for one product determines price. The reason for that demand is preference and perception of value by a certain set of buyers. It doesn't matter what your choice is as a seller, the buyer creates the selling price. We live in a market based economy. The only way what you are referring to as "fair" is for the government to set all buying and selling prices. Is that what you really want? They have that in some countries I would imagine but I doubt if I'd want to live there. If you want top prices, raise a product that brings that. If what you raise does not fit that demand then you are the one that has chosen to sell for less. it's not the market's fault

 

[simme]

Do orange and red tractors get a dock or do green tractors get a premium?

 

[Ky hills]

It's unfair because the "premium" based on color has nothing to do with quality, or effort, or inputs... but only a fake relationship with a certification program that means nothing except as a marketing campaign sold to the ignorant, with no real value.

When one person gets paid more for producing an orange widgit and another gets less for a green widgit, both widgets being equal in every way except for color, the "premium" for one is a "dock" for the other.

It's nothing more than a slick marketing strategy that has worked much better than it deserves. And it's hurting individual high quality producers and the industry as a whole.

If you can tell the difference between a carcass that grades choice and another carcass that grades choice... never seeing what color the animal was before it was skinned... then you can say it's fair. Until you can do that... it isn't fair.

That's the thing, if a the carcasses are the same grade, then there's no difference
We have had purebred Angus and Hereford calves as well as crosses of the two processed and absolutely no discernible difference in taste or quality, all have been great. We prefer to process red calves and sell the black ones because the cool aid drinking people think the black hide cattle tastes better.
The meat we get from our calves regardless of hide color is far and away better than any of the choice "Angus" labeled beef at the grocery store.
It is my belief that the feeders and packers are basing their biases on the types of cattle from years ago. Carcass quality has been and is bred for in most breeds.
If anybody listens to the Angus supporters they'd have you believing that no other breed of cattle was fit to eat, and that is just not reality.
I like the CAB product, have nothing against Angus cattle and have several friends that are Angus breeders, but I don't go along with the scorched earth marketing that is based on continually discrediting the competition.
The folks where we take our cattle to be processed have thus far always been complimentary of how our calves are finished and how the end product looks.