New farmer...winter feeding questions

[Saltydawg]

Hi guys, new to the boards and new to farming.

I recently retired from the Navy and moved back home on the farm.
Have 360 acres, about 130 of it pasture/fields, and 16 Herefords.

The farm has been neglected for about 20 years so although I did get hay off it last year, it is not great quality stuff.

I am concerned whether or not I'm feeding my cattle enough for the harsh winters in Upstate NY.

I am feeding twice a day from a wagon made to hold hay bales off the ground. I give them 8 bales in the morning and 8 bales in the evening. They waste a lot of it but quite often there is still some left over from the previous feeding.
I also give them 30-35lbs of grain each day, a 20% protein "high energy" mix from the local feedmill. I split the grain in two 10ft long feed bunks and let them have at it. The older cows usually eat from one and younger calfs run to the other.
They have plenty of water and one of those big square mineral/salt licks available.

They seem perfectly content but I've noticed a couple of the bred cows are getting pretty bony along their rear end and back.
The steers look ok, but not quite as full as during the summer when they have run of the pastures.

Does it seem like I'm doing the right thing or should my cows not be getting boney during the winter.
There is very little for them to forage due to the high snowfall ammount where I live. The cold doesnt seem to bother them at all however.....often see them standing outside in single digit temps even though they have free access to the barn (where they go when it rains lol).

The farm is paid for, I just need to make enough off it to to pay the taxes and suplement my retirement income. (ps Im retired but still 38 yrs old so have a good back and plan on growing the farm from here).
Any advice on which direction to pursue with my cows would be appreciated. There arent many Beef farmers in the area for me to ask, everything is Dairy up here, but I don't wanna milk hehe.
Thanks.

 

[Bez!]

Hi guys, new to the boards and new to farming.

I recently retired from the Navy and moved back home on the farm.
Have 360 acres, about 130 of it pasture/fields, and 16 Herefords.

The farm has been neglected for about 20 years so although I did get hay off it last year, it is not great quality stuff.

I am concerned whether or not I'm feeding my cattle enough for the harsh winters in Upstate NY.

Well, you do not state their ages or their "start into winter" condition. Trust me you might think your conditions are harsh, but they are not. We ran them in the northern Alberta and northern Saskatchewan prairies on straight hay with no probs.
But I suspect you might have some genetics that are lacking.
In my opinion - Nope, you are not feeding enough hay. There may be some left over, but they all compete - and I am going to go out on a limb and guess your poor doers might be poor competitors at the hay rack.

We now run Herfs just about 200 miles straight north of you.

I am feeding twice a day from a wagon made to hold hay bales off the ground. I give them 8 bales in the morning and 8 bales in the evening. They waste a lot of it but quite often there is still some left over from the previous feeding.

When you had your hay tested to see the various mineral and protein contents, did you discuss the results with your local feed store?

I also give them 30-35lbs of grain each day, a 20% protein "high energy" mix from the local feedmill. I split the grain in two 10ft long feed bunks and let them have at it. The older cows usually eat from one and younger calfs run to the other.
They have plenty of water and one of those big square mineral/salt licks available.

If they are getting this on top of the hay - you have one of three probs:

1. Poor genetics
2. Poor hay

and the third possibility that I will throw in as an aside - a couple of unhealthy animals.

They seem perfectly content but I've noticed a couple of the bred cows are getting pretty bony along their rear end and back.

So, when you gave them their vaccinations and parasite control, what did you use? Perhaps there is a possibility they are fighting something internal? Have you discussed this with someone who can give you a definitive answer? I would suggest you do not use a friend or neighbour except to suggest the potential veterinarian who that person has had good luck with.

It does not hurt to develop this relationship early in your career as a cattleman. Herd health is important and a good veterinarian is worth his/her weight in gold.

The steers look ok, but not quite as full as during the summer when they have run of the pastures.

Does it seem like I'm doing the right thing or should my cows not be getting boney during the winter.

They may run down a bit - but good Herfs if healthy and well fed - will gain during the winter - ours certainly do.

There is very little for them to forage due to the high snowfall ammount where I live. The cold doesnt seem to bother them at all however.....often see them standing outside in single digit temps even though they have free access to the barn (where they go when it rains lol).

They can survive quite nicely on hay - forget the forage concerns - nothing grows in the winter anyways. We do not provide any shelter or bedding for our animals in the winter time - they live in the bush - it is healthier than a barn in my opinion.

The farm is paid for, I just need to make enough off it to to pay the taxes and suplement my retirement income. (ps Im retired but still 38 yrs old so have a good back and plan on growing the farm from here).
Any advice on which direction to pursue with my cows would be appreciated. There arent many Beef farmers in the area for me to ask, everything is Dairy up here, but I don't wanna milk hehe.

You want to make money on cattle - cull the poor doers, work a serious genetics plan - AI some of your better animals. Use only quality feed unless strapped due to drought and such.

Visit others who are successful and when they talk - LISTEN. They are there because they know more than you do. Someday - if you succeed - you will pass that education along.

Thanks.

Good luck

Bez!

 

[Bama]

Don't look at my post as advice. I don't have the bad winters. I was looking at 16 cows and 16 bales of hay per day. That seems like a lot to me. Is this correct? How much do they waste?

 

[buckaroo_bif]

Don't feed any more than they will clean up in a day makes good sense. And why the grain?
Look at this on body condition scoring and try to keep em a bcs of 5 or 6.
How old are the animals?
http://www.cowbcs.info/

 

[Susie David]

Hey Sailor...welcome.
alot of varibles...take Bez's advise and have your feed tested.
If I fed that amount our cattle would be the size of hippos, depending on size and purpose we feed 18-24 pounds of alflafa/grass and suppliment with cracked corn 2-10 #/day depending on temperature and size of the animal. Finishing steers get a more energy centered ration geared to the it's processing date.
Good luck....I retired in "86...USMC
Get rid of thoes blocks and put out some minerals from a sack...easy to cut a plastic barrel in half ... check the posts...a real good idea awhile back...check with the county agent for advise. DMc

 

[Saltydawg]

Hey guys thanks a ton for the advice.

I never had my hay checked . It is now a priority. I did plow up and completely reseed about 50 acres of hay field last year with a timothy/clover mix...hopefully this coming years hay will improve a lot.

I gave the cows a good look over this morning while feeding them and I have 2 of them that are BCS3. The rest are all bcs 5.
I'm not sure what to do with these two cows. Should I seperate them from the others and give them a little more feed to see if their condition improves? There is no evidence of illness. They act like all the others, no discharges, and I can't find any dropping that would cause concern.
My 2 oldest cows are in very nice shape. The two that give me concern are similar framed to the nice cows they just don't have the weight. They are 4 years old and bred with their second calves...no calving issues last year from these two cows.

I'm gonna wait for the hay results and pay closer attention to them to try and determine if competition is hurting them.
Thanks again the advice, was very helpful and gave me something to work with. (the bcs site was very helpful)

 

[milkmaid]

I am feeding twice a day from a wagon made to hold hay bales off the ground. I give them 8 bales in the morning and 8 bales in the evening. They waste a lot of it but quite often there is still some left over from the previous feeding.
I also give them 30-35lbs of grain each day, a 20% protein "high energy" mix from the local feedmill.

I gave the cows a good look over this morning while feeding them and I have 2 of them that are BCS3. The rest are all bcs 5.
The two that give me concern are similar framed to the nice cows they just don't have the weight. They are 4 years old and bred with their second calves...no calving issues last year from these two cows.

Calves at side? heavy milkers?

Still...I'm only feeding my holsteins a half-bale per day each (say 30-40lbs) plus about 10lbs of corn/barley/cottonseed grain per day. And that's 1400-1600lb cows, and they maintain their weight very well on that. And yours are beef; I'd be looking for another reason for low BCS...

like, when was the last time they were wormed? and with what? you say they're bred - how far?

 

[Alan]

I'm no expert and we don't have harsh winters, but I feed 9 - 2 to 4 yr old cows and a 4yr old bull (10 total), 4 bales of hay a day (about 250 to 280lbs of hay), no grain. I feed in a feeder I built 2 yrs ago because they wasted so much hay on the ground. While they are on pasture there is none to eat, they do nibble on black berry leaves. They went into winter with good weight, a little fat and are keeping good weight on. I worm twice a year. Grass comes back mid to late March.

Oh they are Hereford also.

Good luck,
Alan