Last time I helped at a branding, I was asked on the fly to vaccinate, never had before, or given much direction or help. Used a barrel gun thru a chute that you cant put your hand in to pull up skin, had some problems with some because plunger would not go down or vac would spray back out, and what do I do when they go down down on their front knees in chute and cant get good neck access???, i feel like i was vaccinating to far back, noone says anything, and i have to go back tomorrow.......all vaccination procedure through a squeeze chute door would be helpful, i know one nice person there, and the rest are not helpful
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need vac procedure info quick
- Thread starter mtgrl2005
- Start date
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Anonymous
Well, the gun is not the best tool to use for Sub Q work unless you are experienced.
For Intra Muscular - point it at the neck - they will show you where if you ask and ram it home - squeeze the trigger and back out. Check the needle for bending and change if required.
For Sub Q - and a newbie - I recomment the following technique - from a previous post:
_____________________________________________
Alright - my turn at being a nice guy - Caustic don't you dare tell anyone what I am really like!
Let's go to the start.
Sub Q injections in the neck - 7 way. I use it all the time.
Fresh needle on a regular basis - keeps the point sharp and prevents dragging in hair and dirt. Also prevents passing certain little germs from one animal to another. These are the biggest causes of problems in my opinion.
When you stick the animal in the neck, do not "tent" the skin.
Smack the needle area a couple of times hard with the back of your hand - numbs the sight and prevents them from jumping around.
Point the needle directly towards the ground - holding it like you are about to stab something with a knife in your fist - run your hand out and into the side of the animals neck and stab downward - almost parallel to the neck surface. Needle goes in under the skin and does not enter the meat. Ram the vaccine home with your thumb - unless you are using a gun which I doubt. That's another story.
Needle length should not exceed one inch - prevents bending and breakage. Stainless steel only please - stronger needle - but can be brittle. Plenty long enough to do the job.
Wife timed me doing a few animals a couple of days ago - ran em in the chute - did not bother to put them individually into the squeeze - stacked em tight and walked down the line hitting them as fast as the girls could supply me with needles - averaged about 8 - 10 seconds per injection. No lumps and no problems.
Tenting sometimes causes you to prick the skin on the opposite side of the needle entry point and that not only causes additional irritation, but can cause difficulties when the needle partially enters that same piece of skin and the exit hole of the needle is blocked - I suspect this has happened to at least a few folks from time to time.
We never get lumps from needling when I use this method. Not ever.
Whenever you see an animal in the field with a lump and you are concerned - run it into a squeeze and take the largest bore needle you have on site - and you should always have them - and stick it into the site. Just the needle - no syringe attached. Grab the lump and squeeze the heck out of it with said needle still in place. If nothing comes out fine - we will deal with that in a minute - if something comes out - grab a scalpel - and slice it open - on the bottom side - so it can drain. Squeeze the heck out of it.
If it is solid - cut from top to bottom - straight down through the middle of this lump and remove the "jelly" you will likely find. If you are so inclined you can give it a stitch or two when you are done.
Be aware the animal will resist this treatment - so just get on with it.
In almost all cases you should disinfect the site, spray on some type of fly repellant and so on.
Turn it out and forget about it - they heal nicely if left alone.
But, like others have said - if it was my animal I would find something more important to worry about - especially if the animal did not seem to be in any distress. It is usually nothing worth getting wrapped around the axles about.
Did I miss anything fellow readers?
Regards,
Bez
___________________________________________
mtgrl2005
Do not let those folks push you around - do the job in your own time - if they do not like it they can do it themselves. EVERYONE has to start at the same place - knowing nothing!
So do not be timid in the chutes area - keep your head up - watch the hands if the animals are "hard back and forth when caught" - the catcher should be able to help you - if he's a decent catcher.
When they go down in the chute - lower yourself to that height and continue doing what you would do if they were standing - it is here you have to be careful - if they jump up you can get a hand caught - just be ready.
Do not vaccinate yourself - do not laugh - I HAVE!
When you use the gun for Sub Q - if you are - shall we say - vertically challenged - stand on a milk crate.
Point the gun directly down with the trigger turned to one side - the side that is easiest for you to pull - and simply stab down and parallel to the side of the neck - anyone tells you that you have to tent - well, they have not done many animals.
In my opinion a very large syringe with multiple doses is as good and probably better than a gun for Sub Q work. Tell them to get you one or two of them and follow my above post.
Finally, if the gun does not work correctly on EVERY shot - then replace or refuse to use - dangerous to you and the animal - too much / too little vaccine and certainly you do not want to miss any.
Do not use a needle over one inch long - they tend to bend and break.
Sorry to be so long - take what you can get from this and just do your best. If it is not good enough for the crew - well, I know what I would do - but I do not know you or your sitauation.
HecK I will say it anyways - Tell them to get stuffed and walk off.
My best regards,
Bez'
For Intra Muscular - point it at the neck - they will show you where if you ask and ram it home - squeeze the trigger and back out. Check the needle for bending and change if required.
For Sub Q - and a newbie - I recomment the following technique - from a previous post:
_____________________________________________
Alright - my turn at being a nice guy - Caustic don't you dare tell anyone what I am really like!
Let's go to the start.
Sub Q injections in the neck - 7 way. I use it all the time.
Fresh needle on a regular basis - keeps the point sharp and prevents dragging in hair and dirt. Also prevents passing certain little germs from one animal to another. These are the biggest causes of problems in my opinion.
When you stick the animal in the neck, do not "tent" the skin.
Smack the needle area a couple of times hard with the back of your hand - numbs the sight and prevents them from jumping around.
Point the needle directly towards the ground - holding it like you are about to stab something with a knife in your fist - run your hand out and into the side of the animals neck and stab downward - almost parallel to the neck surface. Needle goes in under the skin and does not enter the meat. Ram the vaccine home with your thumb - unless you are using a gun which I doubt. That's another story.
Needle length should not exceed one inch - prevents bending and breakage. Stainless steel only please - stronger needle - but can be brittle. Plenty long enough to do the job.
Wife timed me doing a few animals a couple of days ago - ran em in the chute - did not bother to put them individually into the squeeze - stacked em tight and walked down the line hitting them as fast as the girls could supply me with needles - averaged about 8 - 10 seconds per injection. No lumps and no problems.
Tenting sometimes causes you to prick the skin on the opposite side of the needle entry point and that not only causes additional irritation, but can cause difficulties when the needle partially enters that same piece of skin and the exit hole of the needle is blocked - I suspect this has happened to at least a few folks from time to time.
We never get lumps from needling when I use this method. Not ever.
Whenever you see an animal in the field with a lump and you are concerned - run it into a squeeze and take the largest bore needle you have on site - and you should always have them - and stick it into the site. Just the needle - no syringe attached. Grab the lump and squeeze the heck out of it with said needle still in place. If nothing comes out fine - we will deal with that in a minute - if something comes out - grab a scalpel - and slice it open - on the bottom side - so it can drain. Squeeze the heck out of it.
If it is solid - cut from top to bottom - straight down through the middle of this lump and remove the "jelly" you will likely find. If you are so inclined you can give it a stitch or two when you are done.
Be aware the animal will resist this treatment - so just get on with it.
In almost all cases you should disinfect the site, spray on some type of fly repellant and so on.
Turn it out and forget about it - they heal nicely if left alone.
But, like others have said - if it was my animal I would find something more important to worry about - especially if the animal did not seem to be in any distress. It is usually nothing worth getting wrapped around the axles about.
Did I miss anything fellow readers?
Regards,
Bez
___________________________________________
mtgrl2005
Do not let those folks push you around - do the job in your own time - if they do not like it they can do it themselves. EVERYONE has to start at the same place - knowing nothing!
So do not be timid in the chutes area - keep your head up - watch the hands if the animals are "hard back and forth when caught" - the catcher should be able to help you - if he's a decent catcher.
When they go down in the chute - lower yourself to that height and continue doing what you would do if they were standing - it is here you have to be careful - if they jump up you can get a hand caught - just be ready.
Do not vaccinate yourself - do not laugh - I HAVE!
When you use the gun for Sub Q - if you are - shall we say - vertically challenged - stand on a milk crate.
Point the gun directly down with the trigger turned to one side - the side that is easiest for you to pull - and simply stab down and parallel to the side of the neck - anyone tells you that you have to tent - well, they have not done many animals.
In my opinion a very large syringe with multiple doses is as good and probably better than a gun for Sub Q work. Tell them to get you one or two of them and follow my above post.
Finally, if the gun does not work correctly on EVERY shot - then replace or refuse to use - dangerous to you and the animal - too much / too little vaccine and certainly you do not want to miss any.
Do not use a needle over one inch long - they tend to bend and break.
Sorry to be so long - take what you can get from this and just do your best. If it is not good enough for the crew - well, I know what I would do - but I do not know you or your sitauation.
HecK I will say it anyways - Tell them to get stuffed and walk off.
My best regards,
Bez'
docgraybull
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mtgrl2005":jiqirbvx said:Last time I helped at a branding, I was asked on the fly to vaccinate, never had before, or given much direction or help. Used a barrel gun thru a chute that you cant put your hand in to pull up skin, had some problems with some because plunger would not go down or vac would spray back out, and what do I do when they go down down on their front knees in chute and cant get good neck access???, i feel like i was vaccinating to far back, noone says anything, and i have to go back tomorrow.......all vaccination procedure through a squeeze chute door would be helpful, i know one nice person there, and the rest are not helpful
The advice from Bez is sound and based on experience. Listen to it. If your boss/foreman is concerned with the health of the cattle he will observe you and make sure that you are administering the vaccine properly. If the cattle go down and you don't have neck access, remember that they are covered with skin and subcutaneous means "under the skin". You can give it anywhere the skin is loose enough. Make sure that the equipment works properly. The multi-dose guns are good, in theory, and I have used them from time to time, but generally I prefer the 5cc syringe and a 1 inch 16 gauge needle, and draw (or have a helper draw) the appropriate dose for each cow. It is a little slower, but the 5cc syringe is easier to handle and I'm positive that each head gets the right dose in the right place.
Enjoy yourself - working cattle is fun!
TXBobcat
Well-known member
I agree with others, advice from Bez is good. I would only add that when an animal goes down in the chute, you can cover their nose and mouth with both hands (cut off air), and they will get up. I wasn't too sure about this method, but someone showed me this one time and it has worked several times for me. I use it when they go down, and poking, prodding, or anything else won't get them to stand up.
