Need some advice

[Sniper338]

Ive though about getting into cows for several years, but wasnt quite in the right spot to do it. Our lives have changed a little for the better, and prices have gone down some so im considering getting into cattle again..

I have 4 acres next my house that im going to fence in. Then i have 200 acres, and another 120 acres an hour away from my house.

I was thinking about buying bottle calves here and there, feeding them out some at my house, then when they are big enough, putting them on one of my other places to graze them out until they are big enough to sell. Then possibly getting a dairy cow to keep at my house to let calves steal milk off of.. (assuming i can find a dairy cow that will adopt calves fairly easily).

Eventually id like to get enough calves growing out i can keep some to start a herd, and sell others. Is this a decent way to start?

Seems like the cheapest way..

Cow calf pairs are still going all the way up to $2400, so thats hard to buy a cow calf pair every month where as buying a few calves each month is more doable...

 

[dun]

Not a very good idea unless you have way more time to get a return on your dollars then you have dollars. Bottle claves seem pretty cheap up front, but to raise them to their potential you have to spend money over a longer period of time. In the long run you'll spend just as much as if you start with pairs now. It's kind of a penny wise and pound foolish type of investment. We started that way (off and on) in the 60s and 70s.

 

[Nesikep]

I would look at buying some middle aged cows (8 years or so) that are bred and have decent conformation..

Problem with bottle calves is quality.. If you're looking to them to start a herd with, 100% of them have problems in the family or they wouldn't be bottle calves.. yes, some may be twins the mother didn't want 2 of, but then the heifers could be freemartins (sterile). Death rate on bottle calves is also higher, as are vet bills and feed..

I don't know what your facilities are like, but get your ducks in a row before you get cows.. you gotta have at least a couple pens and some way to restrain a cow.. doesn't have to be a fancy new squeeze for now, but should be strong and functional.. Then make sure you have decent fences, perhaps you want to add electric fence for dividing pastures up.

I don't know how much experience you have with cattle either, but with older cows at least one of you will know what you're doing at calving time.. Heifers are high risk for beginners (don't ask how I know).. Also, get docile cows and it'll make everything much easier.

 

[cowgirl8]

I keep my bottle heifers, just because it takes so much work to get them to the weaning age of their sibs, but they'll be half the size. The next season, they'll be a good size, but not breeding size. They stay about a year behind. So when we breed heifers at 14 mo, the orphaned bottle heifers get bred at 24 because thats how long it takes for them to get big enough. Now, one problem with bottle calves is sometimes they'll nurse on parts of the others. Sometimes thats on the tiny udders of the heifers they are kept with. This will ruin that udder. I always keep an eye out for any of that nonsense going on.
Another reason we keep the few bottle heifers is to keep someone in each herd that has been handled and knows what a bag of feed is. Long ago, we had retired show heifers do this job, and now its my orphaned bottle calves that lead the herds....
But is it a good way to start a herd, well, if you're in no hurry, willing to spend more and can get good heifers.. IMO, not a good way....

 

[callmefence]

Horrible idea. I'm with nesi on this. Older bred cows that know how to do their job. They can. Be had for 1000.00 easy. Somebody may be culling them on age. But you can bet they got old for a reason. Bring em home make sure Thier tame enough andTurn em out on you bigger pasture. CHeapest way in

 

[farmerjan]

I can see both ways, but at this place and time, if you can find some older cows that either have calves on the ground or confirmed preg then you would be getting a return on your investment sooner. Plus, I agree that older cows already know what they are doing. It takes alot of "little investments" as a bottle calf grows, and they can die a whole lot easier than you would believe. I would look for a dispersal sale, and buy the older cows; they don't have to be pretty. If a cow has some age and is still in the herd that means she has been doing her job, raising a calf yearly, and not alot of trouble. This is how we got "bigger" and we only paid an average of 1,000 for bred or c/c pairs. The cattle market is off and it looks to stay that way for a few years again. Don't get carried away and buy these real nice looking animals for high prices, it will bury you just getting started. Around here we can buy a red or a hereford cow for less than a black one and we often do. Bred black, which is the prefered color here, they usually have a black or bwf calf so sells well. I would get your 4 acres fenced and a good water source available and buy a couple of cows. Make sure you really want to do this before you get too big. It'll cost you to keep them for the winter with hay, mineral, etc., then if you are enjoying it, get some more in the spring, and utilize the larger pastures you say you have available. It's a bigger investment up front, but the return will be alot quicker, and you can put that money back into buying a few more. Plus, you can keep the nicest heifer calves as replacements to grow your herd down the road.

 

[regolith]

Bottle calves are for experienced people. And you're best to have a reliable and healthy source of them, not just picking up a few here and there.
Weaned calves are a good option for people with grass and less time/knowledge. Someone else has done all the hard work, taken the losses if any got sick or died, dunno how your market is but here you can get dairy crosses 4 - 5 months old often for $50 - $100 more than what it cost the calf rearer to get them to that stage.

Old dairy cows + orphan calves can be a very worthwhile operation, but you need to spend the time at the start (and have a bit of luck on your side too, that she'll accept the calves).

cowgirl8; I think if you feed your bottle calves as much as a cow does, they should grow about the same rate.
I don't see the advantage for you in keeping them, given the extra work.

As for starting a herd that way - I started my dairy herd that way. It was a good option at the time.

 

[Sniper338]

Good info. I see what yall are saying... faster you get "free calves dropping" ( not buying calves) the better return on the money..

 

[cowgirl8]

cowgirl8; I think if you feed your bottle calves as much as a cow does, they should grow about the same rate.
I don't see the advantage for you in keeping them, given the extra work.

Ours dont seem to grow as good, not to breeding size, remember i usually have them for a reason. I'm sure i could put more into them, but i cant feed more milk than recommended.. I get attached..I can stay unattached to the herd cow and calves, but my bottle babies i get attached. Its no skin off our nose if we keep them around...I keep them in the heifer pasture, sometimes with the horses...They kind of help keep the heifer pasture grazed..So no advantage other than having a lead cow in our herds...I love cruising through the herds and noticing one of my babies looking at me. Hurt Mouth grew out nicely, so did Squirt. The struggles we went through and to see them in the herds now gives me a feeling of accomplishment...Turd Ball is so adorable, and Sweetie did grow to breeding size, but Turd Ball didnt and i needed her to keep TB from getting out..they're buddies..

 

[backhoeboogie]

I graft mine to nurse cows. They generally get more milk than normal calves in the pasture. They grow out fine for me.

You will always have the one natural calf that is half dairy, half beef. The value of that calf will not be as good as a beef calf.

I always buy beef calves for bottle calves. It is best to buy them a week or so old that have been split off of their dam. These calves have had colostrum and are on their way.

I tend to differ from the opinion of many posts above, but that's okay. They have their reasoning.

 

[Sniper338]

I appreciate the input. Im thinking i may go both routes, buy bred cows, then buy weened heifer calves to grow out. Try to buy them 175-300 lbs and sell em around 800lbs...

For those wondering, i have chutes and corals already in place. My grandparents all raised cattle, so i grew up on it, but theyve passed on and im the man in the family now that has the oppourtunity to raise cattle again.

I just have a big opinion of buying cattle cash/ debt free and getting them grown up.

Ive seen too many people borrow money for cattle and never made money because they always owed on the loan... cant do it that way..

 

[jcarkie]

If you want to mess with babies get a milk cow and feed them a couple at a time. Bottle calves are high priced and milk replacer is outrages calves die and it can drain you fast. Take the advice given you can get short solid cows in the third stage and let them do the work. Avoid novelty and the little cute ones.
I have

 

[Rafter S]

I just have a big opinion of buying cattle cash/ debt free and getting them grown up. Ive seen too many people borrow money for cattle and never made money because they always owed on the loan... cant do it that way..

As long as you stick to that philosophy you're going to be okay.

 

[backhoeboogie]

I just have a big opinion of buying cattle cash/ debt free and getting them grown up.

That is not necessarily a bad opinion, but don't go absolute on that. If you get a really good opportunity to make a few nickels, interest rates are low.

Back in '80 we were paying 18% interest and still earning a little on other people's money. It wasn't as easy as it is with today's rates. Borrowing money for a new toy is one thing, borrowing money for an investment is another.

People go broke on investing in bad investments, with borrowed money. I remember people thinking they would get rich on emu sales. Buying breeding pairs for $12,000 How many cows could they have bought for that?

I have "borrowed" from myself a time or two.

Run your cattle as a business. Be smart about it.