Need Immediate Advice...(please)

[mitchwi]

I am going to look at some cattle...am going to leave work in a couple of hours that is the reason for the urgency.

I have not done a lot of buying and that is the reason for the need for advice.

Here's the scoop....yearling heifers, bull has been put out with them 7/7 they are Simm/Angus cross...small % of hereford back on the Simm side....the bull that is with them at the moment is a Reg. Angus of the New Design line. These were spring heifers so they are approx 15-16 months old. If I buy these heifers the guy said I can bring the bull to my place if I want to make sure they are bred (no charge). This is a new bull for him so I cannot see any previous progeny. He also said if I want to keep the bull over to breed the heifers next year I can...(no charge)...just bring him back when I'm done with him, and if spring comes and I end up not being happy with the calves, he has other bulls I could choose from (again no charge). He's asking $785 each. I have a couple of heifers also, that I could breed on this bull, so advantage for me (possibly).

Also, he has late fall heifer calves from last year 5-6 weight and they are Angus/Char/Brahm cross. Price is $535. I have a friendly farmer that is raising Lowline's. I talked with him last night and he said a possibility with these would be to maybe wait a 4-6-8 week period, and put on a good supplement schedule for growth, and put these young(small)heifers with a lowline bull (no charge from him either, as his breeding will be done by then), just to get a calf on the ground rather than waiting a whole year to breed then (obviously) another nine months for the calf, then moving up the breeding dates on these until they are on schedule with a July breeding.

I don't understand "phenotypes" I don't understand EPD's....or any other techincal terms. My past experience was growing a closed herd, and culling as I see fit, looks, bad mothering, bad hoofs, I even culled one one time, just because she was a very loud noisy thing and sounded like she had donkey in her! I have purchased steers in the past when we have had over abundance of feed, and I wasn't near as nervous as today going to look at/buy some heifers.

So in this situation today, I will be going on looks alone (?)

I will take some pictures, and hopefully I can show them on here on Monday, I will not have access to this site until then. I will also take a pic of the 2 heifers I have on hand right now. One is a Purebred Pinzgauer, "Twinkie", kids would not let me sell her, we bought her as a weaned calf last fall. Which is good, because then it gave me a reason to give my husband that I had to keep another heifer to keep this one company if all cattle were gone, just so I could keep my favorite heifer calf out of one of our original Hereford cows we had been breeding over the past 10 or so years. Then you can see her and tell me how bad/good I was doing at the culling/breeding process.

I have read very resonable, intelligent posts on this site, and I am hoping I can also get some concise responses before I leave. Thank you in advance for everyones help!!

Mitch

 

[mitchwi]

found the "edit" disregard this reply

 

[dun]

Seems like that's a decent price for a bred yearling heifer. If you had the bulls reg# some of the Angus folks could probably advise you on him. If the heifers are in the 7-8 range and the bull has a BW EPD that's low it might be a good idea to suck them up now.
On the others, in WI I'ld stear clear of anything with Brahman influence. May not handle the winters very well and you'll get killed at the salebarn for the ear. Just my thoughts

dun

 

[sidney411]

Sounds like a real good deal to me - I'd jump all over it if your willing to deal with 1st calf heifers. I sure wish I were closer - I would love to pick up those $535 heifers! Where are they close to, city?

 

[mitchwi]

Dun - I talked to a friend this morning, he said the same thing about the ears and salebarn. If the Brahm influence is minor % and ears are "normal" for the north. What would be opinion? Obviously they would never get bred to a brahm again while I had them, and if they survived last winter being just born in fall maybe the winter thing is not an issue? Like I said I haven't seen them yet, only what the guy has told me, also have not seen his operation, I will check that all out also. Perhaps he spoils ( ) his cattle with inside cover during the winter... no idea until I go check them out.

Sid - North Central Wisconsin. Wausau.

 

[Rustler9]

From what you described this sounds like a good deal to me. On those late fall heifers-Angus/Char/Brahman cross, how much Brahman are they showing? That's a good price for them but if they have alot of Brahman in them they may not take teh cold as well. But then again, if this guy has Brahman influenced cattle maybe he can tell you more about how his has wintered. If these heifers don't show alot of the Brahman influence by breeding them to English or Continental bulls you should be able to take out most of that look from the calves.

 

[mitchwi]

See Rustler, you didn't read by original post clear enough ... I had you right up until the "English or Continental" But I think I get your jist...if they are not strong looking Brahm, then if i breed it right, the offspring will be marketable.

Ok, what exactly should I look for on these girls today?? Like some kind of check list...??

 

[MikeC]

See Rustler, you didn't read by original post clear enough ... I had you right up until the "English or Continental" But I think I get your jist...if they are not strong looking Brahm, then if i breed it right, the offspring will be marketable.

Ok, what exactly should I look for on these girls today?? Like some kind of check list...??

Correct hoof, foot, and leg structure, general health, and disposition.

Look around to see the mineral program. Have seen young heifers not on a good program take a loooooooong time to get bred.

 

[mitchwi]

I am getting myself all nervous maybe a better word is "dumb"....I feel like if I had kept to my own little world and didn't start asking questions, doing more research I wouldn't be feeling this inadequate (sp?)!!

Can you describe what would be "correct" hoof, foot, leg...

Disposition I get....been run over, and beat up enough catch on to that one...

General Health I get also....

Great idea to check on the mineral system...Thanks!

Maybe if someone had a pic of a "good" and "bad" with a quick run down....I know, perhaps I'm asking too much of everyone...it just seems like the more questions I ask, the dumber I'm getting!!

 

[MikeC]

http://www.dpi.qld.gov.au/beef/3485.html

 

[bigbull338]

id jump on the exposed heifers for $785a hd.but theyve obly been running with the bull 15days. so yes you would need his bull.how meny you thinking on buying. at for those at $535 id get some if i had anther pasture to run them in . they wont be big enough to breed till nov.that give them 120days to grow. scott

 

[mitchwi]

MikeC -- YOU ARE A GOOD MAN!! That is wonderful information!!! I wish I knew the amount of hours spent searching for something like that.... AND it has pictures!!

 

[mitchwi]

BB338 - He has 15 avail and with the bull...@ $785. He has 7 avail @ $535.

Bred in Nov - that would give me July calves in Wisconsin....hot, humid and bugs galore...would that be a bad time to be having calves? Previosly we've had the calves Apr - May...

 

[mitchwi]

Everyone - Thank You! Hopefully pics and information on Monday....from previous posts I've read, the Pic's tend to get a great response...which is always good useful constructive critic's and praises! Have a great weekend!!

 

[bigbull338]

that would give you 22 heiifers to calve out .the they will start calving in april.im just worried that if you tryed to breed the 7 smaller heifers that youd run into calving probs . you could hold off breeding the 7 till jan . that way they start calving in sept. an hopefully calved out before winter getts bad.scott

 

[Rustler9]

What I meant was if the heifers don't show alot of Brahman characteristics, excessive ear, neck and navel flap which is common in Brahmans. Now don't get me wrong I like Brahmans and I wouldn't hesitate to buy those gals myself if they appear to be healthy, growthy females. But I would think that you would get docked on Brahman influenced calves up where you are. Now my dad has taken a black Gelbvieh bull and put on his Beefmaster cows which are approximately 1/2 Brahman and he's getting black calves, very little if any ear and they grow like hell. I would think that you would be able to do the same thing. My answer is if they look good to you, appear healthy etc. I'd get them before someone else does. Sounds like a hell of a deal to me. Good luck and let us know what you wind up doing.

 

[tcline]

Dont know much about the prices in your neck of the woods, but 'round here, you might get called out into the street for rustlin them heifers. Out here I havent seen a bred heifer sell for less than 1200, most closer to 1500, first calve or not.

Todd

 

[mitchwi]

All I ask is a little honesty, ya know? The guy who had these for sale knew I would be driving over 3 hours to take a look. Long story short, this guy has a Featherlite trailer sales business and took these in on trade. There were no Angus/Simm cross....might of been a couple of angus/holstein cross, couple charlois/simm cross, couple of hereford/?? couple of pinzgauer/?? cross.....apparently he took this odd, wormy (imo) scrubs as a partial trade for a trailer, then stuck one of his Reg Angus bulls with them, of which I was not impressed with either...his front end looked top heavy, just seemed out of proportion. They were not too tame either. Couldn't get the truck too close had to stay a ways away and they wouldn't stand still even then to get a good look at. Needless to say I was very disappointed. I did not even waste any film on them.

As for the young calves....there was 2 hereford cross(?) that might of gone 500 on a good day....the angus/simm/brahm cross had ear, most of them were black, couple of tan ones. And if they were 400 pounds...well lets just say they were more like Feb calves, no last fall. So then I ask the guy, "did they just come out of a barn and getting over some ring worm?" he says...nope looks like a bit of "dry skin". So i'm watching them watching us as they are walking single file across the field, and i thought it was kinda funny how their dry skin was all around their neck. So then I ask him..."did you use these calves for roping?" he says...yeah, you caught me, but they've only been in 3 rodeos.
again...no waste of film.

Thanks everyone for your input....I will stock my feed and wait....

 

[MikeC]

If it sounds too good to be true...........................

it usually is.........................

Chalk it up to "Experience". ;-)

 

[oljim]

Whew!,,i hear that MikeC,,i got suckered on a deal a few weeks ago - that i shoulda know better. I'm old and ugly now and have experience in lots of different things,,,but, it's my stupidity that i have to watch out for.,,lol,,

Welp,,it ain't the end of the world though. I know that more mistakes are comin',,,,but i keep having to keep reminding myself every once in a while,,to be careful.