Need help selecting a bull

[Newberry Creek]

If you are not retaining heifers, why not have the two of you go halves on a bull that you would keep for several years. I would try to find someone near me that raises bulls that could walk you through the selection process and would know that you will be there to look him in the eye if you have problems. He would also know that you will probably be a repeat customer if you are pleased. It worked for me. Also, it is hard to beat an Angus bull for what both of you are looking for.

 

[fitz]

Don't know where you are in Va. but there are several sales coming up soon. http://www.bcia.apsc.vt.edu is coming up the 22nd with an open house on Sun. 15th.
There you will find Black & Red Angus, Gelbvieh, Balancer, Hereford, Simmental,SimAngus, and Charolais.
Also, as mentioned, several excellent private sale Breeders in the State.

fitz

Thats the sale I was planning on attending. I'm about 90 minutes northeast of the sale. Thanks for all the help so far. I was wondering about a balancer but I know nothing about them. Also whats a reasonable price to expect to pay around here for a decent bull?

I went back and checked some prices on several I was interested in during last year's sale. Those included some Angus/Sim./SimAngus/Gelbvieh. Prices ran 3 - 5 K.
I bought a Bull at McDonald Farm's pick of the pen sale last year in Blacksburg. I've posted him on here.They have them penned in contemporary groups with a minimum bid posted to start. [email protected]. Hope it helps.
Good Luck.

fitz

 

[Toad]

Thanks Fitz, they are closer to me. I will look over what they have to offer.

 

[Toad]

If you are not retaining heifers, why not have the two of you go halves on a bull that you would keep for several years. I would try to find someone near me that raises bulls that could walk you through the selection process and would know that you will be there to look him in the eye if you have problems. He would also know that you will probably be a repeat customer if you are pleased. It worked for me. Also, it is hard to beat an Angus bull for what both of you are looking for.

So far I don't have a good enough quality of cows to retain heifers in my opinion. But I didn't want to start my operation with the best cows and then do something stupid and lose high dollar animals. As time goes along and I learn what to do I will buy better stock.
My buddy is stuck on Hereford momma's but I'm not a fan of what I've seen. This winter they just don't have the fire in the belly to want to live and the prices he gets for calves in the market don't impress me. The simangus I have seem to do alright. I also have a few charolais cross heifers on another farm that will need to be bread back after they drop calves in June. Long story short I have such a mix of stock that I might agree a good angus bull may do the trick.
The reason I don't want to go in halves with my buddy is we only run cattle together on one place and both of us have cattle at several other places. I'm going to want to move the bull along to anther farm at some point. The deal we have now is that we take turns providing the bull and the other guy pays a bit more of the rent that year. Its worked well so far. Thanks again for the advice.

 

[AllForage]

If you are not retaining heifers, why not have the two of you go halves on a bull that you would keep for several years. I would try to find someone near me that raises bulls that could walk you through the selection process and would know that you will be there to look him in the eye if you have problems. He would also know that you will probably be a repeat customer if you are pleased. It worked for me. Also, it is hard to beat an Angus bull for what both of you are looking for.

So far I don't have a good enough quality of cows to retain heifers in my opinion. But I didn't want to start my operation with the best cows and then do something stupid and lose high dollar animals. As time goes along and I learn what to do I will buy better stock.
My buddy is stuck on Hereford momma's but I'm not a fan of what I've seen. This winter they just don't have the fire in the belly to want to live and the prices he gets for calves in the market don't impress me. The simangus I have seem to do alright. I also have a few charolais cross heifers on another farm that will need to be bread back after they drop calves in June. Long story short I have such a mix of stock that I might agree a good angus bull may do the trick.
The reason I don't want to go in halves with my buddy is we only run cattle together on one place and both of us have cattle at several other places. I'm going to want to move the bull along to anther farm at some point. The deal we have now is that we take turns providing the bull and the other guy pays a bit more of the rent that year. Its worked well so far. Thanks again for the advice.

Would you be willing to expand on the "fire in the belly" comment on your Herefords? That certainly does not coincide with most folks experience in my opinion. I certainly understand the price dock, but I know of a operation in VA that intentionally pays a premium over the blacks for anything red. He buys I believe close to 800 calves a year. With the right kind of bulls over years you should be able to bring up those cows.

 

[Nesikep]

It sounds like you're starting of in a modest and reasonable way... Make your experiences with cheaper cattle, and you'll eventually get an eye for what's good. If you get a premium for the blacks where you are, you'd be dumb not to raise them black... I can say 3waycross's animals are pleasing to my eye, and a lot of that comes from the Gelbvieh and Balancer influences..

Even if your cows aren't the best, if they don't have any serious defects (hooves, udders, prolapse, lameness, or small pelvises), bred to a good bull I don't see a reason why you shouldn't keep good looking heifers from them, ESPECIALLY if you spend the money on good bulls.

Something I find under-rated in bull selection (which the numbers don't really tell) is the shape of the head.. a longer nose and nice smooth eyebrows can really help calving compared to a blockhead with frog-eyes.

Good luck in your ventures and welcome aboard

 

[Toad]

If you are not retaining heifers, why not have the two of you go halves on a bull that you would keep for several years. I would try to find someone near me that raises bulls that could walk you through the selection process and would know that you will be there to look him in the eye if you have problems. He would also know that you will probably be a repeat customer if you are pleased. It worked for me. Also, it is hard to beat an Angus bull for what both of you are looking for.

So far I don't have a good enough quality of cows to retain heifers in my opinion. But I didn't want to start my operation with the best cows and then do something stupid and lose high dollar animals. As time goes along and I learn what to do I will buy better stock.
My buddy is stuck on Hereford momma's but I'm not a fan of what I've seen. This winter they just don't have the fire in the belly to want to live and the prices he gets for calves in the market don't impress me. The simangus I have seem to do alright. I also have a few charolais cross heifers on another farm that will need to be bread back after they drop calves in June. Long story short I have such a mix of stock that I might agree a good angus bull may do the trick.
The reason I don't want to go in halves with my buddy is we only run cattle together on one place and both of us have cattle at several other places. I'm going to want to move the bull along to anther farm at some point. The deal we have now is that we take turns providing the bull and the other guy pays a bit more of the rent that year. Its worked well so far. Thanks again for the advice.

Would you be willing to expand on the "fire in the belly" comment on your Herefords? That certainly does not coincide with most folks experience in my opinion. I certainly understand the price dock, but I know of a operation in VA that intentionally pays a premium over the blacks for anything red. He buys I believe close to 800 calves a year. With the right kind of bulls over years you should be able to bring up those cows.

I've just seen some of his calves hit the ground and give up even when its warm and the cows just seem to be weaker. He says they are pb, maybe my simangus cross heifers are hardier because they are not pb? Maybe its just genetics of what we have, I haven't seen enough to really know.

 

[DOC HARRIS]

Don't know where you are in Va. but there are several sales coming up soon. http://www.bcia.apsc.vt.edu is coming up the 22nd with an open house on Sun. 15th.
There you will find Black & Red Angus, Gelbvieh, Balancer, Hereford, Simmental,SimAngus, and Charolais.
Also, as mentioned, several excellent private sale Breeders in the State.

fitz

Thats the sale I was planning on attending. I'm about 90 minutes northeast of the sale. Thanks for all the help so far. I was wondering about a balancer but I know nothing about them. Also whats a reasonable price to expect to pay around here for a decent bull?

It is always a bit of a surprise to me when I read from so many breeders that ". . . I don't know anything about ( whatever breed we wish to discuss) ". It is pretty simple to go on the internet and type in the Subject box - "Balancer beef cattle", or whatever breed you are interested in. You can learn a lot pretty darn fast!

DOC HARRIS

 

[Toad]

I've read it but reading something on the interwebs often don't hold weight in real life. I would rather talk with people with real life experience and around here I have yet to run into someone who has a balancer bull. Around here its mostly angus and a few simmental, hereford and charolais. Many older farmers don't really even know what they got other than at one time it was some variation of angus. I'm not going to be dumb enough to come on here and claim to know much.

 

[B&M Farms]

Look for something with a big gut and a big butt, and low BW. Then I agree, don't get tied up in all the numbers.
My best bull was butts and guts. So were his calves.
I hope you find a winner!!!!

That was simple but it was the best advice I've heard given to someone that hasn't bought many bulls. There are alot of bulls with the name and numbers that don't have what it takes to make quality calves. A low BW bull with capacity and a butt will get the job done. It's way more important than breed to me.