Need advise on "Dummy heifer calf"

[sidney411]

Hey Dun, I'm in the same boat with you on getting calves to nurse. I have 1 cow that lost her calf, I don't think it ever sucked, her bag was huge. I got another calf and have been trying to get momma to accept it since Saturday. I put her in the chute and the calf will drain her. When they are in the pen she kicks him when he tries to nurse. I will keep running her in the chute twice a day till she decides she likes him I guess.

I also have cow #2 that had about a 40-45lb heifer on Sunday. I walked out to her in the pasture and picked her up and threw her over my shoulder and carried her to the barn and she never squirmed or squeeled or nothing. She is alert and inquisitive and will come over to me when I am in the pen, but I quess she is a 'dummy calf' she will not suck at all, I put her in the chute and put the teat in her mouth, squeese out milk and she will swollow but won't nurse on her own I have stripped out the cow and tried the bottle, she won't nurse that either. When I stick my finger in her mouth all she does is stick her tongue out the side of her mouth and won't even attempt to suck. I have been tubing her since Sunday night, now it is Friday. I am at a total loss as to what to do for her. Anyone have any suggestions?

 

[Medic24]

turkey baster :cboy:

 

[sidney411]

turkey baster? Could you elaborate please?

 

[sidney411]

The calf is not a premie, she is fully developed, has 4 teeth on the bottom. The cow was overdue by 2 weeks per vet palpatation. I have had worse off calves survive, being a premie is not a death sentence.

 

[TUCO]

baseballfan --- what makes you think your guess is better than sidney;s ? i'm sure that your guess is not better than hers.


Sidney -- i think medic posted about the turky baster a few days ago on another topic. i think he said to use it to force feed a calf when you dont want to go all the way with using a tube. but i might be wrong about what i rember.

 

[Medic24]

you got it right Tuco, I use a large turkey baster on the advice of one of our vets for several reasons.........

safer then a tube, calf eventually figures out that milk comes via the mouth unlike being tubed. Milk goes into first part of stomach as it would naturally.
Less traumatic to the calf.

takes a little longer, but you can just draw the milk from a bottle, and squeeze it into the back of the throat, after a while, a healthy calf will stop resisting knowing this is how it is going to be fed for at least a while.

Turkey baster is excellent tool to have around the farm, for the above purpose, drenching with meds, forced rehydration, pushing crushed pills suspended in liquids, irrigation of wounds or the like.

Plus if you screw up and kill anything , you can use it to actually baste the meat!
Easy to clean or simply rinse.

the best part of it all, is they are soooo cheap to buy and keep several around.a buck or two each! :cboy:

 

[Dee]

Try a lamb nipple on a soda bottle. Cut the hole in the nipple a bit bigger so it is easier. That is what I used for my "Little Buddy" last year. He was a tiny calf also. I would wonder if tubing it for that long could do some damage to the calfs throat? Good luck!

 

[Farmhand]

Keep trying. We also cut the hole larger in the calf nipples. It seems to help if the milk kinda runs out on its own a little. They don't have to suck so hard so they don't lose interest so soon. A light bulb will eventually go on and they will be nursing on their own. It is hard work but oh so rewarding when they get it. Good Luck!

 

[tapeworm]

Sidney,
My guess is better than yours so here goes.... The calf may be underdeveloped and prematured-born calf. She is missing a few tools in her head.. She will not survive for long... Just keep trying until its her time... Don't give up hope!

Maybe you need to be on a baseball fan board!! :x What the heck makes you think that your "guess" is any better than Sidney 411's??? I bet Sidney411 knows more about cattle than you and everbody you know put together!!! And you shouldnt accuse a calf of "missing a few tools in her head" unless you think that you can withstand strutiny in that area!!! And by the way that signature that you use is the silliest thing I have ever seen. What grade are you in????

 

[Caustic Burno]

Hey Dun, I'm in the same boat with you on getting calves to nurse. I have 1 cow that lost her calf, I don't think it ever sucked, her bag was huge. I got another calf and have been trying to get momma to accept it since Saturday. I put her in the chute and the calf will drain her. When they are in the pen she kicks him when he tries to nurse. I will keep running her in the chute twice a day till she decides she likes him I guess.

I also have cow #2 that had about a 40-45lb heifer on Sunday. I walked out to her in the pasture and picked her up and threw her over my shoulder and carried her to the barn and she never squirmed or squeeled or nothing. She is alert and inquisitive and will come over to me when I am in the pen, but I quess she is a 'dummy calf' she will not suck at all, I put her in the chute and put the teat in her mouth, squeese out milk and she will swollow but won't nurse on her own I have stripped out the cow and tried the bottle, she won't nurse that either. When I stick my finger in her mouth all she does is stick her tongue out the side of her mouth and won't even attempt to suck. I have been tubing her since Sunday night, now it is Friday. I am at a total loss as to what to do for her. Anyone have any suggestions?

Sid I seen this one time we traced it to nitrate poisoning calves.

 

[sidney411]

C.B.
What would cause nitrate poisioning in a newborn calf? Momma is fine, wouldn't that also affect momma? Is there any way to tell if that is it, and if it is what is the treatment?

I have enlarged the hole in the nipple so that the milk runs out and when I put it in it's mouth she sticks her tounge out to the side and chokes and coughs and carries on. I gave her a shot of 10 cc's B-12 complex and 10 cc's ProBios yesterday morning. What I am using to feed her with is some sort of drench gun I think. It has a metal tube that has a crook in it that fit's in the corner of her mouth and has a 60 cc plunger and tube that I stick in the bottle to siphon the milk. It works great since she still has to actually swallow. She had no problem swollowing but she just doesn't seem to be able to curl her tonge to be able to latch on to anything. I am milking momma out 2x a day and feeding baby. This is really getting old, and no improvement. Baby is acting normal in all other aspects, she runs around, eyes are clear and bright. I think she thinks she has 2 mommas, when I go in the pens she comes up to me like "ok, feed me". I'm at a loss as to what to do. I haven't tried the lamb nipple because she won't latch on to anything, finger, teat, bottle, nothing, so I don't think it is a matter of her not liking the bottle nipple. Thanks to most all of you for your replys ;-)

 

[milkmaid]

I've had calves act like they couldn't use their tongue before; turned out they could, but they were just being stubborn about drinking. Took me a little while to figure that one out. Sometimes if they won't drink off the cow when you want them to...it turns out they've already drunk and aren't hungry.

Depending on how this heifer is doing, you might try getting her to nurse off the cow; if she won't, let her skip a feeding and try again 6-12 hours later. Sometimes that'll make them hungry enough to try nursing. However, if the heifer is looking a bit on the fragile side I wouldn't try it.

Also, any time I have a calf that "just doesn't act quite right", I generally give them a shot of selenium and vit. B complex first, then watch them to see if I need to give antibiotics too. Sometimes the only problem is a vitamin/mineral deficency, but sometimes it's accompanied by scours/pnemonia.

 

[sidney411]

Our cows have free choice mineral, we have never had a selinium problem before either. They don't even have selimum shots here that I could find. I know the calf is not tring to nurse on it's own. The teats are not smooth and soft like one's that have been nursed. They are kind of dry and rough when I milk her down. Every time I milk her I have to get the plug out also, so I know the calf is not nursing at all. I have put her on the teat with the cow in the chute and squirted milk into her mouth and nothing. I skipped the morning feeding yesterday to see if she got hungry and in the evening she was too lethargic and still would not even try to nurse. She is not raspy or rattly and does not have scours. She has bowel movements and urinates while I am feeding her. Everything seems to be working except her tongue, I have not given any antibiotics, I have not seen the need to as of yet. I am just getting quite frusterated with the little girl taking up so much of my limited time. And momma cow is getting tired of going through the squeese 2x a day for milking.

 

[milkmaid]

>>The cow was overdue by 2 weeks per vet palpatation.<<

I've seen a vet be off by as much as 40-45 days either way. :shock: And this was a good repro vet, too. I wouldn't automatically assume this cow was overdue.

How about getting a graft calf to put on the cow, and putting the heifer on milk replacer? :lol: Might take less of your time, but $$$... Seriously though, I'd sure be looking for an easier/quicker way to do things. It takes a significant amount of time to milk a cow and then bottle feed a calf, esp if neither one are cooperative.

 

[sidney411]

I know that vets can and are off on palpation a lot of times, but I know when her last calves were born and how quiclky she usually breeds back and am also basing it on that information also. I keep as detailed information as I can on the herd, most of the time I base due dates on these figures. If I have a heifer, or new cow I get them palpated, or if I have a cow that I have had a problem in the past with.

I have thought about that option also. I have 1 graft calf I got at the sale weekend before last and am in the process of mothering it with it's "new" momma. I don't know which is the lesser of 2 evils. If I can get this calf on it's own then walla, I have nothin got do. If I pull her off and bottle (tube) her and get a new calf for momma then I will have to keep doing it or sell her at the auction too.

Thank you for your insight, I have a few things to think out, She is just so darn cute! It's hard to make the decision to get rid of her, at least the momma likes her and wants her, who knows with a graft calf.

 

[Caustic Burno]

C.B.
What would cause nitrate poisioning in a newborn calf? Momma is fine, wouldn't that also affect momma? Is there any way to tell if that is it, and if it is what is the treatment?

I have enlarged the hole in the nipple so that the milk runs out and when I put it in it's mouth she sticks her tounge out to the side and chokes and coughs and carries on. I gave her a shot of 10 cc's B-12 complex and 10 cc's ProBios yesterday morning. What I am using to feed her with is some sort of drench gun I think. It has a metal tube that has a crook in it that fit's in the corner of her mouth and has a 60 cc plunger and tube that I stick in the bottle to siphon the milk. It works great since she still has to actually swallow. She had no problem swollowing but she just doesn't seem to be able to curl her tonge to be able to latch on to anything. I am milking momma out 2x a day and feeding baby. This is really getting old, and no improvement. Baby is acting normal in all other aspects, she runs around, eyes are clear and bright. I think she thinks she has 2 mommas, when I go in the pens she comes up to me like "ok, feed me". I'm at a loss as to what to do. I haven't tried the lamb nipple because she won't latch on to anything, finger, teat, bottle, nothing, so I don't think it is a matter of her not liking the bottle nipple. Thanks to most all of you for your replys ;-)

We traced it to fertilizing the pasture causes low oxygen levels in the blood the fetus suffers damage.

 

[Farmhand]

I am kind of leaning towards thinking your calf's tongue muscle just hasn't developed enough yet. It should eventually. Hope you can keep with it. I think you will be greatly pleased in the end. Good luck!