Mystery Illness

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

Friday: 2 month old bull calf, 280# (was great prospect for a show bull next season - awesome), sired by Dream On (one of the top known Simmental sires). Noticed he looked a little "funny". Watched him close, he held his head up slightly, and if you really watched, his head was shaking sideways "slightly". Average layman wouldn't notice. Got him & mom in barn, took temp - 104. Hit with Biomycin 200. No runny nose, no matted eyes, no respiratory distress. Eating hay & sucking normal.

Monday: same - no change, except temp is 103 (we were really not concerned w/ temp - but still has the "shakes" - slightly worse) Called vet, came out that afternoon. Now, he checks out this calf like I've never seen him check out anything. First, observed just walking around w/ mom than put in chute. We discussed Listerosis (since we have had it before) - he ruled it out, but just in case had us overload him up with Pen. Vet is very intrigued - never saw anything like it. Calf is slightly unstable on legs when moved quickly. Vet is going to contact a neurologist vet friend.

Tuesday - vet friend said he thought he read about a genetic defect in Simmental breed - would check it out.
Wed - vet friend researched everything - no genetic defect known to Simmental. No genetic defect known gives these symtoms.

2 weeks - turned him & mom outside. Calf was happy camper - running & bucking & butting heads w/ other calves - but all 4 legs were a challenge for him to stay upright.
We now call him Mr Wiggles. He reminds me of a person with Parkenson's (sp?) Disease. Kind of shimmies & shakes. But, he's bright eyed, gaining like crazy, so we're just letting him do his thing.

Vet's friend is wanting him to do a complete necropsy - for free. they are both wanting to figure him out.

 

[agmantoo]

Check with your vet about giving the calf a massive dose of vitamin B

 

[whitecow]

Is the "shakiness" constant or does it come and go?

 

[hillsdown]

Did you give him the whole electrolytes cocktail ? Electrolytes with b12, A and D , twice a day for at least 3-4 days and then go from there. I have seen some of those symptoms before and that is what worked for me .

Good luck Jeanne ,hopefully he out grows this .

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

The shakes are constant.
Vet IV'd him with straight Thiamin (found in B-12) & then we gave him IM shots for 3 days.
Hillsdown - no we did not tube him with anything. Calf is "doing" great. Actually, he gained weight while we were giving him shots. Have you seen this symptom on a "healthy" calf?
This is the cows 2nd calf. Her first calf weaned off great weight & was our Supreme Champion at NYSF (mom was Supreme Champion the year before)
Hate to say it, but vet is chomping at the bit to figure this one out. I am VERY fortunate, I do have a great vet - knowledgeable & caring. He always dreads when I call him, because he knows it will be a head-scratcher - or a major tangled up calving mess.

 

[Howdyjabo]

Selenium?

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

Selenium?

I had to laugh at this one - not because it wasn't a great suggestion - but because anyone that knows me thru the years, I'm about the first one to suggest SE deficiency. I'm like the "Selenium Queen". We are extremely low in this area. We have to feed over 3 times the recommended dose in our mineral just to maintain an "average" in any tested cows. And, yes, for kicks & giggles, we did hit him with another dose of SE, although the vet & we were confident it was not the problem. Willing to try anything. Poor little guy was like a pin cushion.
The dam was tested last year for BVD & the vet took an ear notch & tested this bull calf - negative to BVD.
And I think I mis-spoke. I don't think the vet's friend is a neurologist - not sure what he called him, but I think he specializes in genetic disorders.

 

[hillsdown]

Hillsdown - no we did not tube him with anything. Calf is "doing" great. Actually, he gained weight while we were giving him shots. Have you seen this symptom on a "healthy" calf?
quote]


Yes a very healthy calf, around the same age , one minute she was running around jumping/playing ,the next she was on her side having what looked like convulsions. She also had little tremors constantly. Nothing showed up with any of the tests, we chalked it up to a vitamin deficiency and electrolyte imbalance. After treating her with electrolytes and vitamins twice a day for a few days she never had them again. She had her first calf in 2010 and is due in Feb to an AI bull.

I wonder if your calf was kicked in the head at some point and maybe has some swelling around the brain .. :?

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

Pretty much anything is possible. Vet poked & prodded - checked eyes, ears, nose, throat, tried forcing him down at the hips & at the shoulders. He's still "Mr Wiggles" out having fun with his mom & other calves. At the first sign of him getting worse, we'll probably load him up & let them have him. But, as long as he's healthy & growing, we'll let him go. Plans are, if he makes it to weaning, we'll probably just put him right into the freezer.

 

[TexasBred]

The shakes are constant.
Vet IV'd him with straight Thiamin (found in B-12) & then we gave him IM shots for 3 days.
Hillsdown - no we did not tube him with anything. Calf is "doing" great. Actually, he gained weight while we were giving him shots. Have you seen this symptom on a "healthy" calf?
This is the cows 2nd calf. Her first calf weaned off great weight & was our Supreme Champion at NYSF (mom was Supreme Champion the year before)
Hate to say it, but vet is chomping at the bit to figure this one out. I am VERY fortunate, I do have a great vet - knowledgeable & caring. He always dreads when I call him, because he knows it will be a head-scratcher - or a major tangled up calving mess.

You found thiamine in B-12?? What is this mix. Thiamin is B1.

 

[bward]

Hi Hillsdown, Google 'Nervous coccidiosis in baby calves'. Do the symptoms fit? I have been dealing with an odd case of 'something' now and then over the years. There are nervous symptoms like you describe, occasional fevers, and incoordination. Vets have ruled out lead poisoning, polio, and a bunch of other things.We submitted a brain from a recumbant live calf minutes after killing it and still no answer. I haven't tested for this nervous coccidiosis yet, but am thinking that its what it might be.I don't even know if there is a test for it. These mystery illnesses can be very frustrating.

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

That was a very informative article. It does describe his twitching. But, vet ruled out "Star Gazing" / coccidiosis because there is no enteric coccidiosis. Calf never showed any signs of diarhea before, during, or after his treatment. Not saying I won't pursue more info on this because it sure describes him. Thanks for the info.
Also, new information. There have been several calves in NY that went down, paralyzed & died. Necropsy showed they had meningeal worm (aka deer worm). This is very rare, generally only found in sheep & goats. Sooo - we caught him up yesterday & applied Ivomec - at double the dose. Kill him or cure him sort of philosophy. Poor little bugger is so friendly even after all the poking & prodding.

 

[rockridgecattle]

never would have thought about worms causing this. I too thought about electrolytes. I hope the ivomec cures it. Jeanne, I know you know this but others might not. Double the dose does not mean same withdrawal times. I don't know what the period of withdrawal will be, but i do know it will be significantly longer.

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

never would have thought about worms causing this. I too thought about electrolytes. I hope the ivomec cures it. Jeanne, I know you know this but others might not. Double the dose does not mean same withdrawal times. I don't know what the period of withdrawal will be, but i do know it will be significantly longer.

HaHa - yeah, putting him into the food chain anytime soon is NOT in the picture!! :banana: You don't know HOW MUCH Pen he was getting :shock: (vet prescribed) As I said, WE might eat him, but not til next spring - barring his most likely soon to be necropsy.
Actually, I asked the vet about withdrawal (laughling with him) - he said maybe 2 years!
It never can be easy. They keep us on our toes, don't they?

 

[rockridgecattle]

It never can be easy. They keep us on our toes, don't they?

YUP!

 

[bward]

But Hillsdown, diarhea is not a symptom of 'nervous' coccidiosis.

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

But Hillsdown, diarhea is not a symptom of 'nervous' coccidiosis.

Hillsdown was kind enough to give me some ideas on my problem, but it's "Jeanne" that posted this problem.
Quoted from article:
"This syndrome reportedly can occur in up to 30% of the calves affected with enteric coccidiosis."
Coccidial organisms or microscopic lesions consistent with coccidial infection cannot always be found in affected calves."
"Multiple etiologies appear to be involved and must be present at the same time or in proper sequence to see clinical "nervous" coccidiosis. Some form of large bowel disease/inflammation, usually associated with enteric coccidiosis, and the absence of significant brain lesions are the only constant features of the disease."
I agree, it does not say that they HAVE to have diarhea. We do plan on hitting him with a sulfa bolus, just haven't caught him up again since his deworming. Heck, we'll try anything. He's such a good little trooper. He was on an antibiotic (heavy heavy doses) for over 2 weeks. First, hit hard with Biomycin 200 (twice) than Pen 20cc 2X/day. (vet prescribed)

 

[bward]

Sorry Jeanne, was just having a little mentalpause.

 

[hillsdown]

LOL Byward :lol: :lol2:

I don't even have babies on the ground yet ..

Sounds like the little fella is hanging in there Jeanne .

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

Yes, he is actually "flourishing", although still has the "tremors" constantly, and unsteadiness. If he is walking slowly or just standing, you don't notice much, but if he moves quickly, he can get off balance pretty easy. Been since 12-11.
I appreciate any and all comments. Gets us all "thinking".