My Red Brangus Bull (PIcs of calves added)

[BRAFORDMAN]

Everyone has an off year. It does not mean that your management has problems. Everyone does things differently and it works for them. One bad year should never he held agiainst someone.

Two things come to mind right now.

1. Why didn't you just post the post above explaining all of the details first, and prevent all of the speculation and arguing?

2. Yes, everyone has bad years, but 16 open cows is not a bad year; it's catastrophic! If half of my herd did not calve, my banker would not want to hear that I'm taking the year off. 16 opens cows and your 16. Hope next year doesn't bring 17 of both. Seriously, you need to vaccinate your cattle. I don't care what your dad did for 40 years, if your cattle contract BVD/IBR etc. you have a train wreck. Just because people did it a certain way in the "old days" doesn't mean that it was the best way. In the old days they had no other choice.

I tried posting this, Icould not get my thoughts together.
Thats why i have not really said anything more until now, when i got my thoughts together I posted this.

 

[BRAFORDMAN]

I have posted this information just not at one time. I got my thoughts together and posted it together.

 

[Isomade]

I have posted this information just not at one time. I got my thoughts together and posted it together.

B-Man, I wish you the best in your cattle endeavors, if you stick with it I am sure you will be very good by the time you are older. I wish I cared as much about cattle as you at your age. You got sand kid.

Isom

 

[cypressfarms]

I tried posting this, Icould not get my thoughts together.
Thats why i have not really said anything more until now, when i got my thoughts together I posted this.

Fair enough.

You definitely have guts, Brafordman, I'll give that too you.

 

[Victoria]

Organic breeders vaccinate don't they???
:

I don't think so Jeanne but I could be mistaken

Organic means the cows are not vaccinated OR dewormed.

 

[3waycross]

Organic breeders vaccinate don't they???
:

I don't think so Jeanne but I could be mistaken

Organic means the cows are not vaccinated OR dewormed.

Sorry Victoria but that's not true. At least not in the US. I looked it up in the USDA organic food standards. I tried to copy it here for you but it is a protected document. :bang:
If you want to read it I would have to email the entire document to you in a pdf format. It will do that but won't copy. :bang:

In effect it says that vaccination and EXTERNAL worming is not prohibited. Heck if I am reading it right the only thing you can't do is implant them and or use subtheraputic doses of antibiotics.

 

[Kingfisher]

I am not picking on Brafordman's bull if I was driving down the road and seen him a pasture I would say wow.
If I saw his papers I would have said whoa. I just don't see the sense in this generation of cattlemen making the same screw up's as mine. There is no free ride on this journey and the ticket price is high.
That being said where Brafordman lives he needs some Brimmer influence cattle and is on the right track there IMO.
Now all he has to do is get a consistant looking herd of red cattle and his options open up to follow the market to maximize his profit. Get a good Black Brangus and have black calfs a Char and high yellows a Hereford red baldies.
That Trinty river bottom country in Chambers county is rough on a cow.

So take the easy way out ? Thanks for your contributions. I appreciate them!

 

[Kingfisher]

Why dont you tell him how you really feel? Do you know anybody in Ventress ?

 

[Victoria]

Sorry Victoria but that's not true. At least not in the US. I looked it up in the USDA organic food standards. I tried to copy it here for you but it is a protected document. :bang:
If you want to read it I would have to email the entire document to you in a pdf format. It will do that but won't copy. :bang:

In effect it says that vaccination and EXTERNAL worming is not prohibited. Heck if I am reading it right the only thing you can't do is implant them and or use subtheraputic doses of antibiotics.

That's interesting, different rules up here than down there. I looked into it when we decided to sell some beef, decided we would stick with "natural". According to your rules, we are organic, up here it is ridiculous to get certified organic. My mistake, I thought you guys were the same as us.

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

This was taken from a USDA Organic info site:
*Preventive management practices, including the use of vaccines, will be used to keep animals healthy.
•Producers are prohibited from withholding treatment from a sick or injured animal; however, animals treated with a prohibited medication may not be sold as organic.

It would be cruel to raise cattle unvaccinated to known diseases.
An organic farm worded it " No USDA unapproved health treatment or aids" instead of saying they could vaccinate :shock:

 

[TexasBred]

According to the USDA [1] rules passed on October 22, 2002, certified organic beef must come from a fully verifiable production system that collects information on the history of every animal in the program, including its breed history, veterinary care, and feed. Further, to be certified as organic, all cattle should meet the following criteria:

Born and raised on certified organic pasture
Never receive antibiotics
Never receive growth-promoting hormones
Are fed only certified organic grains and grasses
Must have unrestricted outdoor access

 

[cypressfarms]

Must have unrestricted outdoor access

Man, I don't even have unrestricted outdoor access!

 

[TexasBred]

Ain't that the truth Cy.....guess you gotta take all your fences down if you ever want to be "organic"...open range. :lol2:

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

According to the USDA [1] rules passed on October 22, 2002, certified organic beef must come from a fully verifiable production system that collects information on the history of every animal in the program, including its breed history, veterinary care, and feed. Further, to be certified as organic, all cattle should meet the following criteria:

Born and raised on certified organic pasture
Never receive antibiotics
Never receive growth-promoting hormones
Are fed only certified organic grains and grasses
Must have unrestricted outdoor access

Yes, and under those 10-22-02 rules, they also says:
*Preventive management practices, including the use of vaccines, will be used to keep animals healthy.
•Producers are prohibited from withholding treatment from a sick or injured animal; however, animals treated with a prohibited medication may not be sold as organic.
http://www.uaex.edu/Other_Areas/publica ... A-3103.pdf
http://www.ams.usda.gov/AMSv1.0/ams.search.do