More on Auto Makers, Auto Workers, Execs

[john250]

This is from a newspaper, so maybe take it with a grain of salt.
The Indy Star writes that the new Honda plant near here will pay workers an average of $18.55/hr. That is good in these parts, but not near what a UAW member gets.
President Takeo Fukui and 35 board members share a salary pool of 13 million. Seems an odd arrangement to me, but that is $373,000 averaged over the group. Nice money, for sure, but nowhere near what US execs expect. Even the whole $13 million is less than US companies have paid execs who ran them into the ground.

Just a thought (always dangerous when I'm doing it), but if GM, Ford, Chrysler were allowed to fail then their assets could be sold to smaller groups of younger entrepreneurs. I picture an assembly plant which is it's own company making the Ford Focus for instance. At the lower costs of the Japanese such a plant could find success. Some likely would fail, also. At least they wouldn't be "too big to fail".
With sincere sympathy to anyone depending on a job with the Detroit 3 and the UAw, I think we should let economic nature take its course. If those plants have a good workforce and a good product they won't lie idle for long.

 

[Txwalt]

I'm a union worker. With that said. Union workers are typically paid more than they are worth. It's very difficult to fire a union employee . Good performance will not be rewarded. My company wanted to do an incentive program and reward top performing employes. The union wouldn't allow it. You can imagine what this kind of thing will do to a work force. Thats why I know socialism does not work. Compare union companies to non-union companies that are in direct competition and you will see the problem. Unions only work when there is a monopoly. Thats why unions work so well within the government.

Walt

 

[Jogeephus]

I've been thinking on the same lines and I think there would be buyers out there who could take different factories and run with them. To me, bigger is not always better.

I think if you look at a general rule, a company is the most prosperous in its first 25 years of existance. After this time; fat, pork and beuraucracy enters into the company to such a degree that it becomes top heavy and loses sight of what made it prosper and returns drop. Propping up a mismanaged industry is merely delaying the inevitable. Of course, its obvious, you are not thinking politically since this would be political suicide.

I do hope that if they decide to bail them, they will do it by purchasing stock with the tax payers money and enough stock where so we can dictate to them whether or not they get bonuses. My vote would be NO. Though this smacks of socialism, this is the only way we can insure these fat cats don't get to reward themselves with bonuses.

And if they do decide to bale them out, where do you stop with these bail outs? I would imagine that there are many companies standing in line in anticipation to their decision. I know I am! Since I started paying myself $1,000,000 per year it seems I'm losing roughly $950,000 a year and I need help. Bailing me out would be cheap in the scope of things. So please, please write your congressman on my behalf. I really do need a new truck and my benefit package is - well - nonexistant.

 

[grannysoo]

I'm a union worker.

Walt

This must mean that it's all your fault......... :lol2:

 

[Jim62]

How much do the UAW workers make?

At the postal circus, we got about $18/hr.. I always figured it was about $3 for the work we did (if any), and $15 for putting up with all the crap.

 

[kerley]

I worked in a General Motors Assembly plant when I was discharged from the Army, and after reading your posts about the excessive pay these people earn I can tell you this: until you walk in these folks shoes you ought to think about it. I have never worked harder than on GM's assembly line. They give you several things to do on each vehicle and you do the same thing at least two hundred times in each shift. Yes, they earn good pay (what is good pay?). They have health insurance packages negotiated by their labor unions. They also have a retirement plan. There are not many of these employees that ever see retirement as their bodies just wear out. You have to work at least thirty years to retire and be sixty five to get it.

If you are not happy about the auto industry take a look at the dealers. What mechanic do any of you know that gets one hundred dollars an hour? The dealer takes 80%, labor gets shafted. You keep ranting about American labor costs. Show me an auto worker that is on welfare and letting the tax payer pay their medical insurance. The American business in all fields would prosper if we stopped spending our cash on foreign cars, poisoned Chinese food, cheap Asian clothing, contaminated Mexican produce, inferior South American wine, inflated oil....etc. etc. etc. Now, let me have it!
Tom

 

[jcummins]

Over the past many years, many companies with good management providing pensions saw the hand writing on the wall, and knew long term they could not support that so they phase them out for 401K, IRA, etc. Now those that kept the company pensions and everyone involved are caught. The company management, the unions, and the workers are all part of that problem.

There is no way I will support MY tax money being spent to support a benefits package FAR better than I got. The taxpayer is not part of that group that allowed the problem to exist.

You made the bed...you lie in it.

 

[kerley]

I also saw the writing on that wall you are referring to. I worked at G.M. for two years and quit. The work was to darn hard and did not pay squat. I left and started my own business and retired after at a much earlier age, and doing just fine with what Kathy and I built by ourselves without handouts from anyone. Just honest hard work.
Tom.

 

[Limomike]

And if they do decide to bale them out, where do you stop with these bail outs? I would imagine that there are many companies standing in line in anticipation to their decision. I know I am! Since I started paying myself $1,000,000 per year it seems I'm losing roughly $950,000 a year and I need help. Bailing me out would be cheap in the scope of things. So please, please write your congressman on my behalf. I really do need a new truck and my benefit package is - well - nonexistant.

JO.. my exact sentiments.

 

[Jim62]

Tom, you're preaching to the choir here, as far as a boring, repetive, and demanding job.

I was just curious about that pay issue. I've heard anywhere from $50 to $70 per hour. Assuming that they actually had some jobs available now, I'd bet that they would be able to find an abundance of folks that would be willing to take them for $15 per hour, were it not for the unions.

On the brighter side, if the job is too boring or repetive or demanding or strenuous, we are all free to find a different line of work.......... :tiphat:

 

[1982vett]

Sorry I don't "feel" for the auto worker as I think the price of a new vehicle is way out of whack with what it is really worth. Looks like millions of citizens feel the same since they are not buying or is it because they can't get that third home mortgage to buy one?

I'm going to assume your ability to own some land came from your years of "hard labor". My folks scratched an existence out of their piece of ground. They labored hard for 80 years to earn their living, harder than anyone on the floor of and assembly plant I'm sure. They didn't get paid vacations, sick leave, daycare. Health insurance didn't come till they were eligible for medicare insurance (retirement time for auto workers). They never saw retirement either as they worked and paid taxes till they died.

Auto workers don't have a monopoly on hard work. As for getting paid what they are worth, I've said before, nobody gets paid what they think they are worth. Bet you though that about the last calf you sold so cheap.

The American business in all fields would prosper if we stopped spending our cash on foreign cars, poisoned Chinese food, cheap Asian clothing, contaminated Mexican produce, inferior South American wine, inflated oil....etc. etc. etc.

What you really mean is the American worker would prosper. American business are already prospering because of the the imported products.

So you see, I just can't feel the same way about the auto worker as you. The best I can hope that comes forth from the rubble left of this point in time, is that I hope the younger folks realize they need to live with what they have, strive to sustain themselves and their future. And above all, don't count on all the promisies made others to provide for their welfare in the future. If those promises turn out to not be empty great, if they are then they have something put aside and won't have to wonder if their pension check is going to bounce or not.

So far it has worked for me.

Edited to correct bad assumption and hopfully correct an implication not intended. Thanks Kerley, original post was not meant to be a personal attack.

 

[Limomike]

Speaking of pensions... I see Chrysler is part of this: http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid= ... refer=news

 

[kerley]

And if they do decide to bale them out, where do you stop with these bail outs? I would imagine that there are many companies standing in line in anticipation to their decision.

JO.. my exact sentiments.

I agree with you, I am not in support of any bale out. What I am saying is that the working man is not responsible, it's management and overpaid CEOs.

 

[kerley]

I'm going to assume your ability to own some land came from your years of "hard labor" as and auto worker.

The way to keep yourself from making assumptions is to ask questions. I worked in auto plant for 2 years, got smart and moved on. I earned my money as a building contractor. Worked hard too; like a lot of us. Didn't inherit anything from anyone and have enough common sense to know better than to assume I or anyone in my family worked any harder than the rest of my generation. Perhaps the reason I don't live outside my means is that I know what hard times are. But all of this back and forth don't mean jack to the common workers who planned to be self sufficient in their senior years with their earned pension plans. No one gave a crap about the folk at Enron when they got screwed either.
Tom

 

[jcummins]

If we continue to bale out everyone in trouble....guess who gets screwed...the taxpayer.

I guarntee you....I got my belt a hellva lot tighter in retirement than any retired GM worker.

 

[hurleyjd]

Question: If the Japs, Germans and the Koreans are able to hire workers here for around $18.00 an hour and their excutives make less then how come a Toyota Thundra will cost you more than a Chevy Dodge or Ford? They also have been given big tax breaks by the states they are in. I suspect all the profits go to the mother land of the companys.

 

[kerley]

Question: If the Japs, Germans and the Koreans are able to hire workers here for around $18.00 an hour and their excutives make less then how come a Toyota Thundra will cost you more than a Chevy Dodge or Ford? They also have been given big tax breaks by the states they are in. I suspect all the profits go to the mother land of the companys.

Now you just hit the nail right on the head. When I worked at G.M. I earned $3.25 an hour, swing shift. I do not know what auto workers earn now. I would like to see a payroll check stub. I doubt that their check stub shows an hourly wage of over $25.00 an hour. My dealings as a union construction contractor was much different than the auto industry. And I never kept dead weight on my payroll.
Tom.

 

[Brandonm22]

Now you just hit the nail right on the head. When I worked at G.M. I earned $3.25 an hour, swing shift. I do not know what auto workers earn now. I would like to see a payroll check stub. I doubt that their check stub shows an hourly wage of over $25.00 an hour. My dealings as a union construction contractor was much different than the auto industry. And I never kept dead weight on my payroll.
Tom.

Heck $28 an hour is JUST the base pay rate......
http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/business ... 09-26.html

 

[backhoeboogie]

Question: If the Japs, Germans and the Koreans are able to hire workers here for around $18.00 an hour and their excutives make less then how come a Toyota Thundra will cost you more than a Chevy Dodge or Ford? They also have been given big tax breaks by the states they are in. I suspect all the profits go to the mother land of the companys.

So all the rest can go back home. Assembly happens here but R & D and big money is back over there.

 

[TexasBred]

Question: If the Japs, Germans and the Koreans are able to hire workers here for around $18.00 an hour and their excutives make less then how come a Toyota Thundra will cost you more than a Chevy Dodge or Ford? They also have been given big tax breaks by the states they are in. I suspect all the profits go to the mother land of the companys.

But all the materials are probably purchased here in the USA at inflated rates....and they have to meet the same safety and emission standards as GM or Ford. New plants will usually get some kind of property tax abatement from the local municipality but don't know about any kind of federal or state tax breaks. I just know they make darn good trucks that seem to outlast anything GM, Ford or Dodge can put out there.