More Angus bulls

[regolith]

So supposing you run a 300-cow, seasonal calving dairy with daily walking distances up to 2 miles from milking shed to pasture... you do 5 and a half or 6 weeks AI for heifer replacements and want to give the cows 12 - 15 weeks mating to ensure a 90 - 95% in-calf rate

but the bulls go lame within a few days.

Would you:
a) go 100% AI next year

b) keep the bulls near the milking shed and run them with the herd at night only (in closer paddocks)

c) keep the bulls near the milking shed, identify on-heat cows and put them in with them for the day

d) send the bulls out with the herd for no more than one or two days at a time before swapping them for a fresh team.

e) any other ideas? Would you change anything about the bulls?

I'm pretty sure it's the walking distance alone that is the problem, because the three bulls I've had on the farm since mid-October have been working a separate herd of 40 - 60 low producers and lame cows, grazed no more than a couple-hundred yards from the milking shed. One arrived lame, the other two were sound until I put them with the main herd in early December (leaving the lame one with the lame cows). I came back from the first half of holiday a week later to three lame bulls.
The vet is coming to look at one of the replacement bulls tomorrow. He's supposedly done two four-day terms with the herd with a two day rest between - except that both the new bulls jump gates, fences, whatever to get back to the herd.
The next plan is to set a second hot wire inside the fence and (wrecked) gate of their paddock and see if that stops them.

Vet and farm owners have advised leaving them behind in the paddock when cows leave. We've tried...

Right now I'm attempting to send just one bull out with the herd for one day, swap him over for another sound one. Sounded like a nice idea yesterday when I had four sound bulls and a gate that would shut. This morning I had two (29 being exhausted and limping again from his previous day's trek) and the one who was supposed to be resting chose to be today's bull by means of wrecking the gate and served four cows in twelve hours all on his own.

 

[regolith]

Sorry these aren't so good 144 never been so keen on the camera for some reason. I have EPDs for two of these boys, two are yearlings, three 2 yr olds. 144 is the largest, the others all much the same size probably about 1100 lb

144

810

20

29

53

144 and 810

Looking at 20, I think he's lost a lot of condition over the last fortnight - he jumped out of the vet race and yards before the vet could look at that foot.
He hasn't worked since, and can't be trucked out for slaughter unless he can bear weight on all four. The vet is going to look at him and 810 tomorrow, and show me how to fit an anti-sucking device on one of my Jersey 2 yr olds - *now* I know why 180 calved with a lopsided udder :roll:

 

[KNERSIE]

If at all possible get some new bulls in that is used to walking to graze and to drink.

The potential problem with using the lame bulls is that lameness usually results in a fever which in turn usually kill sperm or lower the count considerably. To make things worse is it isn't neccesarily immediately so even testing the bulls now won't really give you the answers needed.

Your options are really limited to either 100% AI or a fresh set of bulls. Personally I'd rather leave the working bulls in for a week or three before swopping them over if you don't have enough bulls.

 

[plumber_greg]

I hate to appear stupid, but what breed are they?

 

[plumber_greg]

Never mind, DUHHHHHH-More Angus Bulls. gs

 

[regolith]

Well I was about to reply with a

Two were bought from a local Angus breeder. The other three (I think you can guess which ones) are run of the mill 'angus' bulls reared for servicing dairy herds. Definitely not the best I've seen.

 

[regolith]

Knersie, if you don't mind my asking, how would you get the bulls used to walking - what sort of time scale?

I had six weeks to work with the two-yr olds before turning them in with the main herd, but there's really no bull rearer who would have them walkiing these sort of distances.

144 and 810 *are* the new bulls. 20 is finished, I'll be lucky to get him on a truck out rather than shot and buried. Vet trimmed 53 when he was barely lame and he's just fit to go again now, 29 was raring to go after his rest but gets exhausted very quickly.
I'm planning to extend the mating to the end of January if these guys can hang in there, really hoping 144 and 810 make it through till next year because they're only young; I've got the option of selling them on or grazing them away while I don't need them. They're wasted on my herd and it would be a shame if they couldn't at least do another mating season for me or someone else.

 

[KNERSIE]

Knersie, if you don't mind my asking, how would you get the bulls used to walking - what sort of time scale?

I had six weeks to work with the two-yr olds before turning them in with the main herd, but there's really no bull rearer who would have them walkiing these sort of distances.

144 and 810 *are* the new bulls. 20 is finished, I'll be lucky to get him on a truck out rather than shot and buried. Vet trimmed 53 when he was barely lame and he's just fit to go again now, 29 was raring to go after his rest but gets exhausted very quickly.
I'm planning to extend the mating to the end of January if these guys can hang in there, really hoping 144 and 810 make it through till next year because they're only young; I've got the option of selling them on or grazing them away while I don't need them. They're wasted on my herd and it would be a shame if they couldn't at least do another mating season for me or someone else.

just a guess, but I think three weeks would do wonders. I know an oldtimer who chases his bulls with a whip on a bicycle for a 3 km run down his road to the mian road and back every morning in the 4 weeks prior to the sale to get them fit.

In your situation I'd put a feeder as far away from the water in your largest pasture (two feeders at opposite ends would be better) and feed them just enough to keep them interested to run to the feeder two or three times a day to losen the joints a bit. a shot of Multimin might be just what the doctor ordered, the fact that they all went lame sounds very much like a Zn deficiency in combination with how they were raised.

 

[regolith]

Well, 810 had worn through the soles of both front feet at the toes. He's out of action for the next fortnight.
20's front right outside claw was entirely under-run, which isn't something that originated on my farm, however it wouldn't have been possible to identify a problem without having picked up and examined the foot. Two out of the first three bulls therefore *arrived* unsound.
The vet put a hoof block on the inside claw and he's walking much better, though the sedative evidently offered some pain relief before we'd even looked at the foot.

I saw 144 favouring his left hind while he was on the concrete, but by the time i noticed this we were at the point of waking 20 up, so we did nothing about it.

I'm getting a lease AI bank delivered - I've got 20 straws of Simmental left, and will order more short gestation Jersey.

I'm surprised the vet has never recommended zinc in my situation - I'm still seeing several lame cows a week, and while it takes time to work you'd think it'd be better started sooner than later.

Come to think of it - the left hind is the leg 144 caught up in the gate yesterday morning. So it may not be troublesome, just a bit sore and fine with some rest. I'll soon know.

The best area I'd have for feeding them would be the steep gully, I think - the trick would be getting them to accept a bit of feed when they've never had anything but grass. It's something to think about for next year if I'm still on this farm - which is highly unlikely.

 

[regolith]

New Year evidently not a good time of year to need cows inseminated...

The lease bank arrived yesterday (finally). Tail-painted the entire herd during milking last night (now that's a task and a half. Must've been a warm night, the sweat was pouring). It's only been five weeks and already I feel out of practice - did four cows this morning, too many for this late in the mating season. Hopefully I'll average one or two a day for the next three weeks and not be tempted to use any of the high index dairy semen that was returned with the bank.
It was air-freighted, and arrived with a nervous courier who'd never had such a thing in her van before.

144 is keen but all five bulls are hobbling around like 90-yr olds - the three fittest have taken turns at night, leaving the herd unescorted in the further paddocks during daylight.
A truck turned up for 20 and four cull cows. The driver tells me he got into the pen with them and the bull hopped out. He's still here.

Two of the cows I culled were lame 8-yr olds, and the farm owner advised me to dry off the six year old that had her claw amputated three weeks ago. I've started finding that hard silicon rock on the concrete yard and the worn edges of the track again - it wasn't all removed.