MIG Grazing Crabgrass

[Kell-inKY]

I'll take some pics tonight if I have time and maybe you guys can help me out,

there is definitely something going on out there that the cattle are eating. I know the really tall stuff is probably johnsongrass, but if memory serves, there is some BIG crabgrass out there with the distinctive seedhead unless something else is close to it only larger? the base looks the same, and has that whitish appearance at the bottom and star pattern. I am thinking I also have some shorter light green stuff around the perimeter that might be foxtail but they have not head on it yet and I see foxtail headed out in other places?? Pics tonight hopefully.

 

[Kell-inKY]

I guess I have a ton of johnsongrass? which worries me a little, but I'm not sure since I see a lot of my other johnsongrass already in flower or seed mode? Here are a couple of pics, it's the lighter green stuff that I have so much of and can't identify for sure (since it doesn't match my other johnsongrass). Maybe it is just at a different stage? Anyway, the crabgrass I have is pretty large, like 2' tall in the first pic (I missed a swath of weeds here as you can see), Like I say though, my other johnsongrass is WAY taller and tossled out, the foxtail is also at that stage too? Could some of this shorter light green stuff in the foreground be volunteer wheat already from what didn't get eaten by the cattle this spring? I had quite a bit that went to seed that the cows missed. I can't remember what wheat looks like coming up but surely it is way too soon for any volunteer, especially in these quantities? All that light green stuff is 6-12" or so. Maybe I should just start a new thread..........

One last question, would mowing all of this down promote the crabgrass above the johnsongrass? Thanks

 

[TennesseeTuxedo]

You have some nice cattle Kell.

 

[machslammer]

I don't see any Johnson grass in the pics above kell. Looks like crabgrass and a few weeds.

 

[fenceman]

The bottom two look to me very much like young Johnson grass.
The top pic is a stand of Crabgrass.in the top left back , kinda out off focus looks like maybe mature Johnson grass. It's excellent grazing, just has some management concerns. It looks healthy enough I let the cows graze it off.
If they can't keep up with it, and you don't want it. Shred it before it makes seed. Be careful after you get frost.
Cattle look really good.

 

[Banjo]

I don't see any Jgrass in any of the pictures either. Jgrass will have a large white colored vein down the middle of the leaf.
I've got some grass in areas that look like yours, probably foxtail or some other summer grass. Maybe stuff that's been dormant but come to life with all this rain.

A few years ago a neighbor had a field of what looked like alfalfa come up thick after a lot of wet weather, come to find out it was sweet clover, nobody knew where it came from.

 

[fenceman]

Banjo made a good enough point ,I went out and took a pic. The white mid rib isn't apparent on the ends of the leaves or on the very new leaves.

But looking back at your photos, I think I might have been wrong.
Banjo, machslammer.. :tiphat:
Anyway this is in one of my hay storage pens. I'm 100 percent it's Johnson grass. I hope it helps.

 

[Kell-inKY]

Thanks guys,

picture #2 is what I think is Johnsongrass mixed with something else? it's the really tall stuff
picture #3 is "what the heck is this"?

I looked last night again and I think unfortunately all the light green stuff in #3 is young foxtail.

Here are a couple of pics of what I think is the johnsongrass, I think you can see the white lines in the first pic (I bush hogged this a week ago), the second pic did not come out well, looks like it is in the flowering stage on the tall stuff, but it is really blurry, I am limited on my picture capability. They are definitely eating this, I don't know if you can tell but half of this has been mowed down by the cows.

Can I promote the crabgrass by mowing it all short? what will this do to the johnsongrass (assuming it is in fact johnsongrass)? At any rate, as long as it is safe for them I am happy for the free summer grass!

 

[Lucky_P]

Top photo (in the group of three) looks more like goose grass than crabgrass, to me.

 

[Kell-inKY]

Goose grass? now you're just trying to confuse me! Possibly some quackgrass in there too, who knows what I've got (I sure don't), I'm planting this fall anyway, like the idea of having a strong summer grazing season though. The whole original idea of this thread sounds great to me, I don't think I will give up on the idea of incorporating crabgrass into the rotation if possible.

 

[Lucky_P]

Kell,
I was serious about the goose grass; not pulling your leg.
It's the predominant thing growing in my hay-feeding and barn lots... along with pigweed. got quite a bit of it in my gravel driveway, too.
Cows/horses will eat it - but not with the gusto that they go after crabgrass or johnsongrass. It's not an especially desirable forage species, but certainly will grow in pugged/compacted sites.

 

[Bigfoot]

Kell,

Looks like you have a nice mix of warm season volunteer grasses, no matter species they are. If I let mine get that big, I go ahead and harvest it for hay. If you really want to graze some, for me it's best to keep them stems from getting very big. Wether your talking about: Johnson grass, barnyard grass, crabgrass, goose grass. I've fooled with them for a while now. They seem more palatable, and more productive if you keep them short.

 

[Kell-inKY]

They seem more palatable, and more productive if you keep them short.

That sounds good, I'm going to move them off of it soon and mow it down then, I don't think it's too late in summer for it to grow back and it looks like a big hairy mess at the front of our property right now. Probably where all the seeds came from, blowing in from the roadside.

 

[Kell-inKY]

I moved the cattle off my weed patch this morning and am going to mow it by this weekend hopefully. I still can't believe I have all this free summer forage, although I highly doubt this year has been anywhere close to normal with the amount of rain we have had. I can't even get my burn piles of dead trees to burn.

Crabgrass is going to seed everywhere else, if I mow it do I have enough time for it to grow back and go to seed? The cows have picked the crabgrass down first it seems so it is already pretty small, but I have other stuff? and tons of mare's tail that I either did not hit hard enough or is taking it's sweet time to die off. They are not even close to eating all that is out there, I am just getting impatient and want it to look "clean" since it is next to our drive.

At any rate, this is my new summer strategy thanks to Bigfoot's thread! I just hope I don't get in over my head with dreams of more head per acre with all this super fast growing summer stuff. How drought tolerant is crabgrass anyway?

 

[Bigfoot]

Crabgrass is good about going to seed. I mowed a lot of yesterday. I have full faith it will seed out before fall.

 

[Bigfoot]

This is one of my cows grazing in a strip of crabgrass. This is primarily quick and big and some red river. There is also some other "volunteer" grasses/weeds, but my grazing this summer is going well.

Looks good. I might give the improved varieties one more shot next spring. I hit mine with about 60 or 70 pounds of ammonia nitrate to the acre about Wednesday.

 

[Bigfoot]

Kell, I post this for you. I know from pictures you've posted, and comments you've made, that you like your place neat.
This picture here:


Is the same field this pic was taken in during late June:


I had gone on a trip, and my family couldn't find the common sense rip cord to pull, and left 5 head of horses on it way to long. It looked like we had killed it. It has bounced back, and been grazed a couple of times since then. I pulled off of it yeasterday, and had my son run the finish mower of it. Growth seems to be exponential from this height up to about 6 inches. Then I repeat. If Iet it get too tall, it doesn't grow as fast. It's also much thicker when I do it this way. Literally like 4 or 5 times as many blades. I probably could have gotten by with out mowing it, but there is a spot out in the middle that they insist on crapping. They don't eat much there, and it gets big and tough. Just grows better, and looks better if we clip it.

 

[Kell-inKY]

Well that's inspiring, I guess I will quit worrying that I cut it too short then, I'm just afraid this late in the year it will not thicken up like yours, can't believe it's August already? I think I will plant crabgrass with my winter forage (turnips, wheat etc.), I think that is what I read to do.

The previous owners used to raise TWH's here, I looked at on old google satellite view from 5-8? years ago and there is a lot of bare dirt showing everywhere. Definitely overgrazed, which must be an issue with horses, and now I am dealing with the weedy aftermath. In the next year or so, we are planning on pasture boarding a few horses for extra money, up until now, I have resisted that due to how destructive they can be. At this point we are trying to think out of the box because this beef thing is taking forever.

 

[highgrit]

Well that's inspiring, I guess I will quit worrying that I cut it too short then, I'm just afraid this late in the year it will not thicken up like yours, can't believe it's August already? I think I will plant crabgrass with my winter forage (turnips, wheat etc.), I think that is what I read to do.

The previous owners used to raise TWH's here, I looked at on old google satellite view from 5-8? years ago and there is a lot of bare dirt showing everywhere. Definitely overgrazed, which must be an issue with horses, and now I am dealing with the weedy aftermath. In the next year or so, we are planning on pasture boarding a few horses for extra money, up until now, I have resisted that due to how destructive they can be. At this point we are trying to think out of the box because this beef thing is taking forever.

From what I've seen horses are hard on pastures. A pasture that can support 5 horses can support 10-12 cows. Maybe Sky will check in on this horse and pasture deal, he's becoming quite the horse person.

 

[Bigfoot]

Yes, horses will graze spots to extinction. I rotate mine before they can kill off a spot. Kind of a pain, but if your gonna play, you gotta pay. I wouldn't worry about the crab grass going to seed. That's what it does best.