slivopasture and multi species grazing

[Petercoates87]

Hey folks. Hope everyones winter is going great. Been researching for quite sometime about silvopasture and multi species grazing. So I have about 3 acres of unused land on the farm thats semi clear cut and some has fairly new wood growth on it. Most of the new growth area is a combination of birch, fir, and spruce trees. I really like this combined idea of using slivopasture and multi species grazing in an area and I'm wondering if anyone else is at it. I'm in the process of thinning the re-growth area and planning to leave the birch trees and some of the bigger fir trees so the animals can use them for shade. Before anyone asks this is just a small farm and really can't afford at this time to have this mechanically cleared to be seeded and I just feel this would be the best I can do at the moment. Really looking for anyone experience in this area.

 

[Lucky_P]

Cattle are notoriously poor foresters. Where I came from (AL/TN), and here in KY, as well, it is not uncommon for folks to 'run' cows in the woods. Figures I've seen from UofMO(I think), indicate that it takes 40 acres of 'woodland pasture' to produce enough forage to support one cow-calf pair, and in general, damage to the timber stand far outweighs any economic benefit you might derive from running your cows in that wooded area.
That said, if you're more oriented toward trying to convert that area back to pasture, even if over a multi-year period, than you are toward timber production... run the cows in there, feed hay (If you can) in there, etc.

 

[Silver]

Cattle are notoriously poor foresters. Where I came from (AL/TN), and here in KY, as well, it is not uncommon for folks to 'run' cows in the woods. Figures I've seen from UofMO(I think), indicate that it takes 40 acres of 'woodland pasture' to produce enough forage to support one cow-calf pair, and in general, damage to the timber stand far outweighs any economic benefit you might derive from running your cows in that wooded area.
That said, if you're more oriented toward trying to convert that area back to pasture, even if over a multi-year period, than you are toward timber production... run the cows in there, feed hay (If you can) in there, etc.

I feel like you're area and therefore those UofMO figures are referring to hardwood stands? In this part of the world cattle will not cause an economic loss in Aspen stands. In fact Aspen needs to have fire ran through it to keep it healthy and to allow forage to flourish.
Cows will kill trees if contained in a small area, but allowed to graze freely will do well enough and do no harm to the trees. In drought years the bush is where our grass is because the overhead canopy protects the ground from drying out like an open pasture.

 

[Lucky_P]

I feel like you're area and therefore those UofMO figures are referring to hardwood stands? In this part of the world cattle will not cause an economic loss in Aspen stands. In fact Aspen needs to have fire ran through it to keep it healthy and to allow forage to flourish.
Cows will kill trees if contained in a small area, but allowed to graze freely will do well enough and do no harm to the trees. In drought years the bush is where our grass is because the overhead canopy protects the ground from drying out like an open pasture.

Yep. I suspect MU was referring to hardwood forest, as was I. The farm I grew up on in east-central AL was about half mixed hardwood-southern pine forest. The cows ran everywhere; they kept the understory pretty open, as when Dad & Uncle sold the cows, within a very few years, you could hardly walk through the woods - particularly in the 'swamp' bordering the creek, which became an almost impenetrable thicket of sweetgum and Chinese privet.
I was not cognizant of any timber damage at that age - and IDK if they had an adverse effect or not. I suspect they made more money selling timber off the place every 15-20 years than they ever did from that raggedy bunch of cows.

 

[puzzled in oregon]

"Cattle are notoriously poor foresters." Especially in newly planted Douglas Fir and Red Cedar. They walk on them,
they lay on them and browse on them. Then once the trees are six or seven years old they rub on them. Bad little foresters.

But as stated in certain types of tree stands the cows are helpful.
Agroforestry/silvopasture is probably more in practice than people realize. They just haven't applied that
label to their operation.

 

[Petercoates87]

Ic. Well my plan isn't to use the trees as a production crop just to use as shade. I plan to keep roughly a few dozen trees over the 3 acre area. What I'm keeping are more mature new trees roughly 3or 4 inches in diameter. I'm just wondering is anyone at this as well or... . I also plan to keep some chickens on this area too. And maybe some ducks and geese. I don't find many people at it on YouTube and places I've been looking.

 

[TexasJerseyMilker]

My husband had the groves of trees cut down and sold in a pasture. He had several of the big trees left for shade. A couple of years later there came a thunderstorm. Lightning struck a tree some cows were sheltering under and 8 or 9 were killed.

Seems like goats would thin your small trees and brush.

 

[bird dog]

Just fence off with small 8' x 8' square around the trees you want to keep. Field fence works best. I did some 20 years ago that are now 30' tall.

 

[wbvs58]

Different side of the world but I graze a bush block 650 acres, successfully I think. It is pretty rugged and rough with large gum trees and a lot of smaller wattle and banksia and fallen timber. I put my dry cows in there after I wean the calves early March (start of our autumn) and they are in there until late June when they come home to calve. I will also put them in there with their calves over summer if things go belly up with the rain. I have been using this block for about 16 years now, initially leasing it then later buying it. I keep saying to myself it is getting better every year for grass and I am sure it is. I believe the improvement is due to the action of the cows hooves breaking up the old leaf litter that has accumulated over many years returning nutrient to the soil and making room for the grasses to grow, along with the fresh growth that occurs after being grazed.

Ken

 

[TexasJerseyMilker]

In the US dead eucalyptus (gum) leaves never seem to rot and lie in the ground for a long time. Don't the chemicals in those suppress grass growth?

 

[chevytaHOE5674]

With our wet clay soils the hooves in the woods lead to crown dieback in just about every forest cover type here. Aspen or northern hardwood both die off when used in a grazing system.

I have 200 acres of timber (mix of aspen, softwood, and hardwood). All of it is getting logged off before it is completely dead.

About the only species that seems to survive cattle here is tag alder...

 

[Cowman42]

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With our wet clay soils the hooves in the woods lead to crown dieback in just about every forest cover type here. Aspen or northern hardwood both die off when used in a grazing system.

I have 200 acres of timber (mix of aspen, softwood, and hardwood). All of it is getting logged off before it is completely dead.

About the only species that seems to survive cattle here is tag alder...

Down here in the middle of the mitten I run my herd in flood plain, oak/maple ridges, and in red pine plantations. I thinned the pines about a decade ago and have rows about 20' apart. I unrolled first cut orchard/clover hay down the rows and now have some very nice silvopasture. The red pines have really benefited from the the thinning and manure. The floodplain had mostly ash and BIG maple....The ash all died due to the ash borer and now the grass is pretty good with giant maples for shade. I use it in the hot summer. The oak/maple ridges can't keep grass alive. I don't know if it is acid from the leaves and acorns or too much shade......But they have been in there over a decade and all the oaks are growing just fine. Also, my cows love tag alder. Every time I expand a pasture into some alder wet spots they have the leaves stripped off in 10 minutes. Different forest types and soils do different things when cattle are tromping around. Mine also love young Aspen. After you cut it you might try running them in the poplar sappers. It provides a pretty good summer drought feed.