Mean Heifer - advice?

[Zack & Dylans Mom]

We purchased a beautiful heifer (kadabra sire - Full Flush dam) at a sale over a month ago. At the sale, my husband spoke with the owners about demeanor because it was extremely imperative that we have a calm calf, being this would by my son's first time showing cattle. He pointed out a few, so we shelled out a REALLY pretty penny for our new heifer Emma. We got her home with no problems, but it seems every day she's getting worse and worse as far as demeanor goes.

She's acting like a bull. Anytime anyone walks up to her she puts her head down and starts snorting and scratching off. She's jumped at my husband and I a couple of times, but she hasn't worked up the nerve to fully "butt" us yet, but I feel that coming on very soon. We keep her tied up 24/7 with enough lead to lie down and eat.

But here's the funny thing. She's perfectly wonderful while you're grooming her and she's never kicked. She doesn't mind at all being washed, combed or blowed. The problem is standing around her and defintely leading her. When she's lead, she'll balk just a little bit and as soon as you tug on the lead, she'll bolt and go nuts, then try to come after you snorting, scratching and throwing her head everywhere.

We've been working with her for several hours EVERY day and her meaness seems to be getting worse. We've tried the Calf Calm from Nasco and the Sullivan's brand and neither had ANY affect at all. I'm about to order some of those herbal pellets that are supposed to calm calves, but I have a feeling that isn't going to work either.

Now I've read on this forum about some drugs i.e. Ace, thorazine, melatonin, and rompum. Some of the threads got pretty hot about ethics and the use of drugs, but, I'm starting to feel that we might need to try something a little stronger than tryptophan and herbs.

We called the guy that we purchased her from and his only response was that "they had never had any problem with her - sorry". We paid WAY too much for her to sell her or take her to the stock yards and we haven't found anyone interested in trading. So, it looks like our only option is to show her. So we've really got a lot of work to do in order for my 9 yr old to be able to show her or she's just going to be one REALLY expensive lawnmower!

Does anyone have any advice for what we could do or drugs/doses that we should try first? I don't believe the animals are tested at the county shows, but I'm pretty sure they are at the state show. I feel really bad about even thinking about drugging her to show, but I justify it by the fact that she's a heifer and not going to the stock yards and also the fact that we spent just about our whole savings on her and it would make me nauseated to just let her sit there.

By the way, after talking with several people we have been told that Kadabra frequently produces some crazy calfs and her grandfather on her mother's side was Sugar Ray and we were told that he produced some crazy ones too. So I guess she's just got the "psycho gene" from both sides.

Thanks for any responses!

 

[cattlemom]

From one mom to another I say cut your losses now and find a new calf. There is no amount of money worth getting your child hurt. We went through the same thing the first year we showed cattle - we cut our losses, got another heifer and my son is still healthy and loves showing. Even if your son doesn't get hurt will he ever trust a calf again? You really don't want him to go out in the ring scared because he's wondering what this crazy thing might do at any moment. You want him to go out there and be confident knowing that his hours of work at home are going to pay off in the form of a well behaved animal and a fun experience. JMHO Best of luck with whatever decision you make!!!

 

[Zack & Dylans Mom]

That's exactly what I was afraid of. He has been so excited and proud of her and he has put in a lot of hours after school grooming, but he IS getting apprehensions when sh'es not in the chute. No, there's NO WAY I'll let him show her if she's not completely broke and he's comfortable. And you're completely right that there is no amount worth your child getting hurt or any amount worth your child becoming afraid of an animal or uncomfortable showing.

Your suggestion looks like what we're going to have to do if nothing else works.

We just wanted to make sure that we could say that we tried EVERYTHING before we give up on her.

Thanks so much for your response

 

[Chris H]

This is too late for you, but my advice to anyone thinking about purchasing a calf --- NEVER spend more than what you can afford to throw away.

Now for your calf...you said you keep her tied 24/7, if that is true then turn her loose. Have a small pen where she can be loose and have a separate place where you tie her and feed her. Since she is getting worse she could be getting stir crazy over being tied up since you got her. Leave hay in her loose pen, but lead her to water and to her stall for feed. Don't pull her, let her think you have all the time in the world for her to go where you want her to go. Just stop her from going where she wants to go. Just stand still until she finally starts walking the direction you are directing her to go. Don't ask a lot from her for the next week or two, just back and forth from her loose pen to her stall to be fed and watered.

Do you have any other cattle? She could be wanting someone to play with, not a good idea to let her do that with people.

 

[TheBullLady]

I have to agree with cattlemom.. there's no way a nine year old is ever going to feel comfortable around that heifer, and that's going to make showing her frightful instead of fun. We traded heifers with a nine year old girl down the road because her first heifer was running away with her, and I halter broke the second one for her. She's never had a problem, and has gotten all the confidence in the world now.

Is there a fitter or someone that is experienced anywhere near you that might be able to help? Drugging her isn't the answer. If you do get to the show and she's tested, all your money and time will have been for nothing. If she's that good of a heifer, I would try to possibly trade her. Check out http://www.showsteers.com and http://www.clubcalves.com.. maybe you can find an experienced show person (steer jockey) that will trade you for her.

Good luck! But more importantly, be careful around that heifer.

 

[jaydill]

Cattlemom points out a good point. Remember this also. All the drugging in the world won't change her bloodlines nor the fact that off the drugs, she's a little crazy. Let's say you do find a drug strong enough...what happens when you breed her and she produces a calf? That calf could very well come out with a demeanor very much like hers. Then you'd be stuck with two crazy calves you've put money into and you're not wanting to get rid of.

I also, however agree with Chris. Half the problem may be that she's not getting enough exercise. Being tied up 24/7 will help her have that feeling of wanting to bolt when she finally gets out of the pen. We let ours drag their halters around all day and only tie them up for a few hours a day. Once they're tame enough that we can start pulling on the halter just a little bit, and that we can scratch on them when we walk in the pen, we start turning them out at night. If they don't have exercise than they're not gonna cooperate when it comes to leading.

I don't think it's too late to try what Chris said. We've had a few "crazies" at our school barns and the problem with a couple I can think of is that the kids weren't taking that extra step to let the calf out at night and take the couple extra minutes in the morning to bring the calf back in. Instead they would leave them penned up, which makes for a calf with lots of energy and little to do with it.

I think you also have one more option, sort of along what BullLady suggested. If you can find a jock, see if that jock would be willing to help break her for you. There are plenty of nice people in the industry who I'm sure would be more than willing to help you and your son.

Good luck.
Jay

 

[AngusSenorita]

like everyone else said, give her a place to be turned out every evening. During the evening make sure she has free choice hay and water. During the day put her in a smaller pen where she can move around a little bit. When you do tie her, tie her as tight as possible and stay there and watch her. do this a few hours every day, including when you wash. after doing this she should give the halter more respect. I would say give it one more month, don't let your son handle her unless she is tied up and can't move her head a whole lot.

 

[cul8r]

If you bought her at a sale for a show heifer and paid alot, wasn't she already halter broke? Just a little warning, I have seen show prospects at sales that were so doped up it was unreal, that way they would bring the big bucks. Best place to pick a show heifer for a kid to show for the first time is to pick it out of the pasture. If the calf runs away from the rancher's truck, leave the calf at the ranch, if the calf comes up to the rancher's truck and is curious of you, take em home.

I agree, turn her loose and let her get that pent up energy out.
When you untie her, she thinks that she is getting free, that's the reason for the unruly behavior. Especially if she enjoys being groomed and washed, if she were that bad, she would be bad all the time. Also, don't walk straight up to her head, walk up to her toward her shoulder and talk to her as you are walking up to her. There may also be a trust issue with you and your husband if you have already been putting show calm down her, you are going to have to earn her trust back.

Good luck.

 

[Zack & Dylans Mom]

Great advice guys... it is MUCH appreciated. I'll turn her out and see how that goes. It could be that she's just getting stir-crazy from being tied up all the time. And we're really considering putting another calf with her.

I've been reading up on the drugs some more and coming off the drugs seems to be pretty rough. I think we'll stay away from that. Thanks for the advice on that arena.

This is too late for you, but my advice to anyone thinking about purchasing a calf --- NEVER spend more than what you can afford to throw away.

Too true!

I would try to possibly trade her. Check out http://www.showsteers.com and http://www.clubcalves.com.. maybe you can find an experienced show person (steer jockey) that will trade you for her.

We've called some jockeys in the area and they say it's a little late in the game with shows starting THIS MONTH and she's too expensive.

If you bought her at a sale for a show heifer and paid alot, wasn't she already halter broke? Just a little warning, I have seen show prospects at sales that were so doped up it was unreal, that way they would bring the big bucks. Best place to pick a show heifer for a kid to show for the first time is to pick it out of the pasture. If the calf runs away from the rancher's truck, leave the calf at the ranch, if the calf comes up to the rancher's truck and is curious of you, take em home.

Well, we were TOLD that she was halter broke AND calm... so much for taking someone's word. At the sale she seemed just fine, but then like you said, she very well could have been doped. I will definitely take your advice on picking them out in the pasture. Very good advice.

Thanks again to everyone. I'll try letting her out and we might get another calf to put with her. I'll post back and let y'all know how it goes.

Thanks again!

 

[Jovid]

Turn her loose for awhile and see what happens.

I might get a little mad tied up 24/7

 

[cattlemom]

Another bit of advice...

Stay away from the sales until you are real comfortable at this game - & yes it is a game. Find a reputable breeder or jockey and let them help you learn the game. I know a lot of these jockeys get a bad name, but many of them love the show cattle business and really do want to help the kids. It is an ego trip for them when you let them know that you trust them, but it takes a while to build that trust. Our "jockey" experience has given us a life long friend and a mentor to our kids in the show ring.... There are lots of breeders out there that will help the kids too - most of them understand that it has to be a win-win situation!!

 

[klintdog]

Here's a couple of ideas that might work if letting her out doesn't fix the issue. We've done them in the past and they've worked well.

When you let her out, leave the rope halter on her and let the end dangle. She'll step on the rope and get used to stopping. I'd suggest taking the halter off of her when you let her out the first couple of times though so she can blow off steam.

The second option is to get a temporary nose ring and try that. The kind you can clip in and out for bulls work very well (don't pierce her!). What we've done is try and lead her with this slack and then tighten up on it like you would a bull. It sounds bizarre, but it has worked for us a couple of times in the past.

If none of this works, I'd definitely suggest cutting your losses at this point. I've had to boot heifers out of the show pen before. As much as it hurts, it hurts a lot less then a couple of broken ribs (trust me, I've been on the receiving end of those). I'd also suggest staying away from Ace. I've had good experiences and bad experiences with it. You have a 50/50 chance of the calf being a baby, or going completely nuts when it gets in their system.

Good Luck! Let us know how it turns out.

 

[jkwilson]

Looking at it from a different perspective, are you sure she's getting enough feed? Show calves become real chow hounds, and can get a little aggressive when they are hungry. They know people bring feed, so that's where they go if they are hungry. If she's tied, that means you are bringing her everything. A heifer should have unlimited hay at all times, or at least when she's loose.

 

[Anonymous]

klintdog has some good ideas there.
As everyone has suggested, letting her loose so she can let off a bit of steam is a good thing to do, not only for her problem but also general wellbeing. Imo, I wouldn't touch her for a week or two, just let her settle and if you can, give her a friend, even if it's over the fence.
I have a heifer who is much like this... I only bring her in when there's a show, coz she too gets quite upset (exhibits some of the same behaviour as you describe). Mind you I've also copped a couple boots from her. I guess the difference is I'm aware of these peculiarities and have enough experience to handle it. I think perhaps we do some things differently here too.
TurnThatCowLooseMaw, they didn't necessarily get ripped off. This can happen quite easily... show cattle can turn sour just like horses when they've had enough of it all.
And if you can't get anywhere, like everyone said, cut your losses. Breed her or try and sell her. It might be that she just doesn't want to be a show heifer, and settles nicely when left to 'run free'.
Just my opinion.

 

[jaydill]

Look there is no easy way to say this. You got ripped off. Dude need to unload a bad one and he unloaded it. The only thing I can think of that will calm this critter is either a 2X4 to the head or a 30.06 shell through the brain.

If that's all you can think of than you most certainly don't have as much experience as you like to say you do. :lol:

 

[jaydill]

Looking at it from a different perspective, are you sure she's getting enough feed? Show calves become real chow hounds, and can get a little aggressive when they are hungry. They know people bring feed, so that's where they go if they are hungry. If she's tied, that means you are bringing her everything. A heifer should have unlimited hay at all times, or at least when she's loose.

Good suggestion. They could also lead her to and from each of those things to get her a little more lead friendly. But I do agree. I think she needs to be untied, turned out, and let alone for a few days so she can calm down. During that time, IMO, she should have free choice hay and water. But once they start tying her up for short periods of time and trying to lead her, then I think they might cut back on the hay and water supply so they could lead her to and from those things to get her a little less lead shy. Once she's broke though, she should go back on free choice hay and water.

 

[WagaAgeyv]

Our bull did that and we were afraid we would never be able to get him broke. She is just testing you. Take a stick into the lot with you. If she charges smack her with it. I would let her drag her lead for a while. We did that and he settled down. I kept consistant with the punishment they are like kids. Our kids have horns so you can only imagine. He is now great and comes when we call and holds his head up and the only time he butts is when you pet his horn area. She just wants to play so just keep consistant and see what happens.

 

[aplusmnt]

How big is she (old?) I would try for a short time the releasing her at night and most of day and tying up a few hours a day, leading to feed and water, brushing and so on.

But if you can not get her to be a puppy dog then do not use drugs or anything else, just cut your losses. Children are to rare and show heifers to plentiful!

If it was not for the being tied up 24/7 I would be reluctant to suggest you mess at all with her. Have not heard anything about Kadabra calves being bad (but that does not mean they aren't), but have heard people say bad things about full flush calves.

 

[AAOK]

Have not heard anything about Kadabra calves being bad (but that does not mean they aren't), but have heard people say bad things about full flush calves.

Blood lines aside, patience,gentleness and reward can accomplish great things with show calves.

I agree with giving her some space. Dragging the rope halter is also a good place to start. It may take more time (days) than you want, but she probably will come around. Crazy calves are crazy in the chute too.

After the hiefer is used to people being around while she is not tied, begin grabbing the halter and just holding her from getting away. Gradually work your way, day by day, up to her head, and patting and rubbing around on her. When you think she is ready, see if she will walk with you. Hold the halter right at her nose, and place your body beside her head, then see if you can both walk at the same time. DON'T TRY TO PULL HER! When she moves even an inch, stop and reward her. When she starts walking well right along your side, start using the show stick on her; not to set her up, but just lightly stroking her all over her body and legs. A great reward at this juncture is to lead her to her feed, and leave her alone, tied in place while she eats. No sticks or boards; no shotguns or rifles necessary. She's just looking for a good friend to hang out with.

 

[klintdog]

Very well said AAOK!