Margo - Fire Sweep Simmental Heifer

[FlyingLSimmentals]

Ron, I personally think you would have large BW's from almost any breed out there. From previous pics I have seen of your place it looks like a cow's buffet table, which is nice and all but over eating can grow some pretty large calves. I think you need to try more cross fences or an increase head count. Try a Limousin, Gelbvieh, or Hereford where we can pick on that breed when the calves come out weighing heavy . I'm gonna go :hide: now, I'm sure I offended someone.

 

[retro]

There is no "PERFECT" breed if there was we wouldn't have anything to complain about LOL Every breed has BW issues in some bloodlines

 

[Fire Sweep Ranch]

I'm not going to bash the Simmental breed. Our first bull was a Simmental, out of the Onward bloodlines. His calves were perfect, and sold at the top of the sale. I wish I still had him, just to green to know what we had.

Very nice bull Highgrit.
People are going to bash what ever breed they choose, so no worries. I always say the proof is in the pudding. The sire of Margo's calf, and several others at my place, was sold last fall to a wonderful family that is running him on cows. Just because Inyeti has a high birth weight calf among MANY does not mean the bull is a bad bull. I am glad I collected him before he left my place, I plan on using every straw. His calves are extremely nice, and show potential for growth.

Here is a sample of some of his calves:
Heifer calf

two of these calves are his, both heifers:

Brownish calf laying down, again heifer

Only bull calf we have gotten out of him, 68 pounds if I remember correctly

Heifer calf that was breech and had to pull, but in 70's birth weight

And of course, his first calves, a set of twins that were small. They are now 4 months old and weigh over 400 pounds each, no grain.

People wanting to bash the bull all the time need to remember there are a lot of things that go into the growth of a fetus; genetics (the cow is HALF), feed, and environment. The bigger calves from that bull came from past show heifers that were getting heavy grain for most of the pregnancy. The only assistance given was a backward birth, the twins, and a heifer that needed a little help.
And, of course, a pic of the bull himself before we sold him

 

[Nesikep]

Hehe, yep, pick on 2 other breed I've used and didn't do anything to reduce my birthweights.. Gelbvieh and Limo so far have proven busts as far as reducing BW's.. The shorthorn we had before that was no different either.

I think my next 2 bulls might be the home raised one I'm going to use on heifers this year (95 lb BW, below average and from a mature cow), and I'm going to have to take a long trip and do a lot of shopping, but I'm going to look for a Saler again

 

[Ohrmundt Simmentals]

There are just too many factors in BW to be picking on just the breed. Feed, climate( Region of the country ), genetics, and plain old chance. There are many breeds of cattle that may range from 60-130 ever year on a given farm and across the breed as a whole. That's not just Simmental. I've seen a lot of 100+ bw in Angus and others. Nothing wrong with a 100 pound calf if it coming out of mature cow unassisted. I'm also pretty confident that if you took the a bull cow combo and got 100 calves born in say Georgia and took the same pair and got 100 calves in Canada. You would probably see an easy 20 lbs difference. :2cents: :2cents:

Ron the upper 80's twins is pretty amazing to. That's a lot of calf crawling around in there. I think you might like some of the temp fencing of rotational grazing. Especially if you with your girls a lot already.
Keep up the good work Ron!

 

[Alan]

Fire sweep is 100% on to my train of thought. So many factors in a calfs BW, feed, environment, cows genetics, etc. just because a cow throughs a 100lber doesn't mean the bull throws 100lber. I have no calves yet but a bunch of cows with full udders and pudding butts in my pasture. I'm very concerned about calving season this year because we have had such a mild winter and warm early spring. I have a lot of green grass and all my cows are as fat as ticks, I would prefer they were 7 framed cows at calving but they are more like 8.5 to 9. I know this is a problem that many would love to have with their harsh weather this year, but the cows have had more grass than the can keep up with and I have had them in my small calving pasture for over a month ....... I feel I have a good chance of big calfs and hard deliveries this year and it's not the Bulls fault it's mother natures fault along with high cattle prices.

I posted the first on this thread because I didn't know if Ron realized he was slamming fire sweeps bull in around about way.

 

[AllForage]

Alan, do you mean bcs instead of frame?

 

[Alan]

Alan, do you mean bcs instead of frame?

yes BCS not frame, that's what I get for posting in a hurry and way too early in the morning to blame it on beer.

 

[inyati13]

I saw all of Steel's recent calves this week during my trip to bring home a heifer I purchased from Fire Sweep Simmentals. They are all small compared to my spring calves. Her largest calf sired by steel whose Dam is Lilly was 89 pounds at birth. That is an average size calf for me.

As stated above, Margo's calf was 105 pounds based on my bathroom scales method. Kris thinks there is a technical error in my method. So I bought a scale you suspend the calf from. I am going to experiment: weigh a couple calves using both methods and see if I get the same results.
BTW: The properties of Kris' bull, Steel, was not the intended subject of this post. The subject is that I have another data point for big calves in my operation. She and I agree that data is data. Let the chips fall where they will. According to my "bathroom" scale method, Margo had a 105 pound bull calf on day 289 post-pasture breeding to Steel. I took possession of Margo in September. She was on nothing but pasture until January 1, 2015 when I started feeding her hay. So why the calf was 105 pounds??? Genetics or environment; both? Or there might be some supernatural phenomenon occurring on my farm. Kris thinks it is my "bathroom scale" method. I think my weights are accurate.

I believe my cows are responding to a program of "exceptionally good care". My cattle are always well cared for. I religiously make sure they get every need attended to. Pasture forage, Parasites, vaccinations, Mineral, Winter feeding, etc. I also think there are intangibles. My cows are never stressed. I have received several comments on the content and calm nature of my herd. I groom every cow almost daily. In five years, I have never had a day, that I have not spent time with my cows. Only when I take a rare trip, am I not with my cows. I now have a person that I trust to watch after them when I am not there.

PS: I hold to my assertion that the EPD process is subject to fraudulent reporting. That assertion was not directed at anyone. In particular, it is not directed at Kris. It is an indictment of the process.

 

[inyati13]

Ryan: The arrangement on the calf is that if he survives beyond the window when it is apparent that not getting colostrum would have likely killed the calf, the Pastor will pay me an agreed to sum for the calf. If the calf dies, then we all lose. Kris thinks the calf must have gotten colostrum. The evidence I gathered led me to conclude he did no nurse the dam. In the course of Saturday, Sunday and Monday, I tubed the calf with 5 packets of colostrum supplement.

 

[AllForage]

Ryan: The arrangement on the calf is that if he survives beyond the window when it is apparent that not getting colostrum would have likely killed the calf, the Pastor will pay me an agreed to sum for the calf. If the calf dies, then we all lose. Kris thinks the calf must have gotten colostrum. The evidence I gathered led me to conclude he did no nurse the dam. In the course of Saturday, Sunday and Monday, I tubed the calf with 5 packets of colostrum supplement.

Sounds like a good deal

 

[Nesikep]

I think your weights are at least close enough to being accurate,.. I know my bathroom scale will vary a little depending on if you stand on your toes or your heels, so I try and stand the same way holding the calf as I do when i'm not.. So far this year only 4 out of 18 calves have been significantly under 100 lbs for me, and our winter was mild, and my cows are NOT fat.. actually a lot of them could use another point or two of condition.. For me I didn't need to assist a single cow, but all 3 heifers needed help.. In the end I'm still batting 100% which is what matters most

 

[inyati13]

We have had 8 calves from that bull so far, all 288 to 290 days gestation and all ranging from 68 to 75 pounds EXCEPT Margo and a heifer we have here, Lilly. Lilly had a 89 pound heifer calf, 290 days gestation.
Not sure why the heifers are throwing the biggest calves, but I will take the 70 pound calves and add 20 more on my 3 year old cows (the rest were dammed by 3 year olds). The calves hit the ground running and nurse like crazy! I am just glad Margo did it on her own...

All I can say is I'm sure fire sweep is happy you are broadcasting to all her "highly decorated" bull is throwing hundred pounders.

Ya i was thinking the same thing :dunce: I guess I would think twice about posting a picture of my beloved heifer if that is what she was carry'n for a udder . But that's just me

Retro, in keeping with my promise, here are up-to-date results from today:
The calf is 13 days old and weighs 123 pounds. That is an increase of 18 pounds or 1.38 pounds per day. There is some question about my initial weight for the calf. I reported 105 pounds based on a bathroom scale method. I now have a hanging scale. I am finding a close correlation when comparing both methods. Fire Sweep Simmentals thought my initial weight seemed high. Given my practices and procedures, you may deem my findings questionable and I accept your skepticism.

I am not well versed on what are acceptable gains in the first two weeks postpartum so I am open to comment.

I will keep you undated. I do think this calf is going to push this heifer's milk production. I hope she improves her milk production and it appears that she is working hard to keep up. We will see.

 

[inyati13]

Retro, in keeping with my promise, here are up-to-date results from today:
The calf is 13 days old and weighs 123 pounds. That is an increase of 18 pounds or 1.38 pounds per day. There is some question about my initial weight for the calf. I reported 105 pounds based on a bathroom scale method. I now have a hanging scale. I am finding a close correlation when comparing both methods. Fire Sweep Simmentals thought my initial weight seemed high. Given my practices and procedures, you may deem my findings questionable and I accept your skepticism.

I am not well versed on what are acceptable gains in the first two weeks postpartum so I am open to comment.

I will keep you undated. I do think this calf is going to push this heifer's milk production. I hope she improves her milk production and it appears that she is working hard to keep up. We will see.

Retro: I never forget a PROMISE. I sold Margo's calf last Thursday at the Paris, KY stockyards with 4 other steers. Margo's calf sold for the highest per pound rate of the 5 feeders: $1.97 per pound. He was born 3/26/15 at 105 pounds. Sold October 22, 2015 at 575 pounds. One of the other steers born after Margo's calf (3/29/15) weighed 690 pounds but bought only $100 more. Says volumes about the vain attempts we pursue to produce more pounds when less pounds makes you the same money!

 

[inyati13]

I took this picture with Margo today.

 

[Lazy M]

Retro, in keeping with my promise, here are up-to-date results from today:
The calf is 13 days old and weighs 123 pounds. That is an increase of 18 pounds or 1.38 pounds per day. There is some question about my initial weight for the calf. I reported 105 pounds based on a bathroom scale method. I now have a hanging scale. I am finding a close correlation when comparing both methods. Fire Sweep Simmentals thought my initial weight seemed high. Given my practices and procedures, you may deem my findings questionable and I accept your skepticism.

I am not well versed on what are acceptable gains in the first two weeks postpartum so I am open to comment.

I will keep you undated. I do think this calf is going to push this heifer's milk production. I hope she improves her milk production and it appears that she is working hard to keep up. We will see.

Retro: I never forget a PROMISE. I sold Margo's calf last Thursday at the Paris, KY stockyards with 4 other steers. Margo's calf sold for the highest per pound rate of the 5 feeders: $1.97 per pound. He was born 3/26/15 at 105 pounds. Sold October 22, 2015 at 575 pounds. One of the other steers born after Margo's calf (3/29/15) weighed 690 pounds but bought only $100 more. Says volumes about the vain attempts we pursue to produce more pounds when less pounds makes you the same money!

I wouldn't call $100 difference a vain attempt. Maybe if your only selling a few it wouldn't matter much but if your able to cash in that difference (or experience that loss) on 10, 20, 30, etc it makes it pretty significant.