pdfangus
Well-known member
link to new blog post about managing fescue in the 21st century.
http://wp.me/p239CQ-rc
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JIM TATE
PIPE DREAM FARM
[email protected]
http://wp.me/p239CQ-rc
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JIM TATE
PIPE DREAM FARM
[email protected]
Managing Fescue in the 21st century
- Thread starter pdfangus
- Start date
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Interesting reading Jim.
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pdfangus
Well-known member
Thanks,
at some point in the near future the presentations from the event will be available on the web....
When I have the location url I will post it.
at some point in the near future the presentations from the event will be available on the web....
When I have the location url I will post it.
All sounds good. But like Alan Jackson said one time.....But here in the real world its not that easy at all.
If you kept cattle from spreading the fescue, how would you keep the birds from distributing it everywhere?
The NRCS, Universities-Ag colleges have been down on Ky 31 fescue for years. Maybe there's just no money in it...just sayin. No doubt Ky 31 fescue has its concerns.
But I do know for a fact that the U of Ky. will tell you to buy your heifers instead of raising your own. That goes directly against selecting your best doers in a ky 31 environment.
Also, I would have to buy hay out of Texas to be sure I didn't get any with ky 31 fescue seed in it.
I have been a big proponent of Persist Orchardgrass in recent years and planted about 12 acres 4 years ago. It is now starting to decline and it hasn't been grazed hard at all. So I'm going to have to put some ky 31 in it, which it is already invading it to some degree.
Drilling some rye for early spring grazing could be a good thing and possibly some sudan or pearl millet for some summer grazing.
I'm not in a race to grow the biggest calves in the county. For those who have straight purebred herds.... they are at a disadvantage anyway ......there needs to be some crossbreeding going on....hybrid vigor, hertosis, etc. come into play...many variables to consider besides just endophyte.
If you kept cattle from spreading the fescue, how would you keep the birds from distributing it everywhere?
The NRCS, Universities-Ag colleges have been down on Ky 31 fescue for years. Maybe there's just no money in it...just sayin. No doubt Ky 31 fescue has its concerns.
But I do know for a fact that the U of Ky. will tell you to buy your heifers instead of raising your own. That goes directly against selecting your best doers in a ky 31 environment.
Also, I would have to buy hay out of Texas to be sure I didn't get any with ky 31 fescue seed in it.
I have been a big proponent of Persist Orchardgrass in recent years and planted about 12 acres 4 years ago. It is now starting to decline and it hasn't been grazed hard at all. So I'm going to have to put some ky 31 in it, which it is already invading it to some degree.
Drilling some rye for early spring grazing could be a good thing and possibly some sudan or pearl millet for some summer grazing.
I'm not in a race to grow the biggest calves in the county. For those who have straight purebred herds.... they are at a disadvantage anyway ......there needs to be some crossbreeding going on....hybrid vigor, hertosis, etc. come into play...many variables to consider besides just endophyte.
Ebenezer
Well-known member
Jim,
Do you have a ballpark cost for total renovation of 150 acres? That would be just pastures. Also would need to spray highway shoulders, yards, hay from coastal plain only, ... What does the needed grazing/feed cost in the years of transition? I do not think that I can afford. We have cows and pasture management that work. It has improved greatly from years ago and works well.
Thinking of customers: how can you assure customers that the breeding stock you sell them will function on KY31? Right now I can.
Do you have a ballpark cost for total renovation of 150 acres? That would be just pastures. Also would need to spray highway shoulders, yards, hay from coastal plain only, ... What does the needed grazing/feed cost in the years of transition? I do not think that I can afford. We have cows and pasture management that work. It has improved greatly from years ago and works well.
Thinking of customers: how can you assure customers that the breeding stock you sell them will function on KY31? Right now I can.
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pdfangus
Well-known member
Dogs and Cows":1um0ld30 said:
Well theirs was a half hour presentation.
sampled fields on fourteen farms over three counties in the valley over several seasons.
some fields tested low.
some fields tested high.
some fields tested extremely high.
even the low testing fields were at or near the established toxic level.
Virginia seems to have some of the highest levels tested so far.
endophyte concentrations are not just in the seed head but this is how it is spread.
fertilizer for fall stock piling drives endophyte up as well. stronger plant - stronger endophyte.
same is true of spring fertilizer.
I will see if they can send me something like a link to their results....their presentation will be on video before too long
plumber_greg
Well-known member
I was able to renovate nearly all of my pastures by unrolling brome hay in the winter over the straight fescue pastures for around 3 years. Had to bring in the brome, but it sure worked. I have about 3 acres left to cover. The brome is the only thing I have found that will be stronger than the fescue. Must fertilize tho'. I know a lot of people don't understand how to unroll the hay and waste a lot, but once you get it down, there's no waste. Lot cheaper than spraying and seeding. gs
WalnutCrest
Well-known member
There is an art to unrolling hay?
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pdfangus
Well-known member
As promised....
the videos of the presentations at the VFGC winter meetings are now on line.
Now this is a full days worth of presentations....
but you can pick and choose and view the ones of interest to you...
https://www.youtube.com/user/VTForages
the videos of the presentations at the VFGC winter meetings are now on line.
Now this is a full days worth of presentations....
but you can pick and choose and view the ones of interest to you...
https://www.youtube.com/user/VTForages
plumber_greg
Well-known member
Walnut, I have heard many times how the cows just lay on the hay and waste it. If you unroll hay yourself, you know what I'm talking about. How many times have you heard, "First day dinner, second day bedroom, third day bathroom."
Banjo, I guess, it's taken over the fescue and the farm I got it from has had it there for years. No overwintering problems where I'm at.
But I also have a family farm that I have control of, the hay was free, had to put it up, the pasture is free, and rent some of it out to a well known purebred breeder. If you had to buy the hay, it may be different. gs
Banjo, I guess, it's taken over the fescue and the farm I got it from has had it there for years. No overwintering problems where I'm at.
But I also have a family farm that I have control of, the hay was free, had to put it up, the pasture is free, and rent some of it out to a well known purebred breeder. If you had to buy the hay, it may be different. gs
plumber_greg
Well-known member
Somewhat. Not nearly as good as fescue, it just doesn't seem as thick or hardy or something. Winter feeding here usually starts in Nov. I cut hay, let it grow, and move cows home when the grass on the other farm is gone. Usually in late Oct. Started feeding hay after Christmas this year. gs
Watched several of the videos that were posted. They were good and informative. It seems at the end of the day what everyone is striving for is dilution of the endophyte, with other grasses and clovers.
My question to any one who can answer it is: In the places where I need to sow grass each year, places where the cattle have tromped it up etc., would it work sowing MaxQ in those places or would I be just peein in the wind, so to speak.
I spoke to the guys at Southern States the other day about the MaxQ and they said no.......the book says the old fescue has to be killed out first or your wasting your time.
My question to any one who can answer it is: In the places where I need to sow grass each year, places where the cattle have tromped it up etc., would it work sowing MaxQ in those places or would I be just peein in the wind, so to speak.
I spoke to the guys at Southern States the other day about the MaxQ and they said no.......the book says the old fescue has to be killed out first or your wasting your time.
According to Pennington, Max Q will not be contaminated by the toxic endophyte. You can plant it in KY31 but it will just be one more grass in the mixture, much like adding OG or brome. Eliminating KY31 then seeding Max Q just means you will have a straight friendly endophyte field.Banjo":2n3zy5d7 said:
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pdfangus
Well-known member
Banjo":3p91q3bu said:
if it is a place where you find yourself seeding annually then I would seed annuals. many of our guys are finding the double cropping of annuals to be more productive and more nutritious with the side benefit of having a non fescue place to graze during summer slump....
one of our guys who raises all natural beef pork and chicken is making 60 percent of his pasture double crop annuals for grazing....now this guy is a good grazing manager and moves his stock daily grazing about 60 animal units per acre per day...has documented growth of stocker calves being grass fed at 3.2 lbs per day on summer annuals . he weighs every animal every month and soil tests yearly and sees the productivity and the increase in soil organic matter and soil health.
Ebenezer
Well-known member
% contamination is the key here. But overgraze or hit a drought and the KY31 will survive with a higher % and begin your pastures to a return of contamination. About the same for the improved varieties of orchardgrass. But you are correct that the endophyte cannot be spread fro plant to plant like a disease.dun":34qzsbs1 said:
Supposedly they have done some tests at the U of MO and they claim that MaxQ is only slightly less drought tolerant them KY31. But I agree that it depends on the percentage that survives. My cows won;t touch OG unless it's in mixed fescue hay, so OG is out of the question for us. We just settle for around 40-50% red clover along with whatever miscellaneous stuff is growing in the fescue.Ebenezer":1d8tku1p said:
I've been tempted to try some of the new improved white clovers. The issues we had with it in the past is that it didn;t persist any better then plain old red and it cost a helluva lot more. We get about 3-4 years out of red, the white wouldn;t even last 2-3. The only white that grows well (as well as can be expected anyway) is the wild dutch. Grows well, persists well, no volume. I swear that hop clover has more mass then dutch white.
talltimber
Well-known member
I wonder if that wild dutch is what we have here. I've not reseeded, and don't recall my Dad or Grandpa seeding anything other than some spots of fescue that burnt up in '12. The clover here grows good, lots of it in the fescue, but doesn't get but about boot top tall and peters out pretty quick once it quits raining and gets hot.
