Making Money in the Cattle Business.

[Alberta farmer]

I often am amazed how people figure things. Without a doubt when a drought comes along the price of hay goes through the roof. If you grow your own or have two years worth of supply I guess you can weather the storm...my question would be why would you do this?
This year, in Alberta, we are in a bad drought situation. Hay prices are close to $200/ton. Whether you buy it or grow it, it is still worth $200/ton? Can you afford to feed that cow hay for $200/ton?
If you were feeding a cow 30 lbs. of hay a day for 365 days that is 5.5 tons or $1100! I realize most of us don't do that. Depending on climate we feed different amounts. In Canada(and most of the northern states) 150 days would be a pretty good figure so it would only take 2.25 tons X $200 or only $450. However that cow still has to eat the other 215 days, right? Here you could rent grazing land out for $1/day/cow with no problem. So our feed costs are now $665? That is just for barebones feed, no other expense. And consider this...that is truly what you are paying, whether you buy or grow your own...or rent pasture or own it! The truth is you would be better off getting rid of the cows and renting everything out? Of course if cows are your hobby cost really doesn't matter.

 

[Caustic Burno]

I can also buy it in the good years for anywhere from $16-22 a bale and store it. :cboy:

I would start building hay barns the best price here in years has been forty dollars a roll with it being 70 dollars a roll last winter.

I can't even make a 4X5 roll with my own equipment at your price with 500 dollar a ton fertilizer and 2 dollar plus a gallon diesel. Last years price on fertilizer was 800 a ton, your prices won't pencil out in my part of the world.

 

[dun]

I read an article that advised that the best thing to do is to buy your hay. It said the money spent on equipment and the land that you use tied up in hay rather than having more cows is not worth it. Of course you would have to be careful and watch what you buy and what you pay for it.

I almost posted similarly earlier but couldn't find the article. According to the one I saw, you need to cut more than several hundred acres of hay to pay for the equipment and come out cheaper than buying hay. Can't say that includes all u shadetree mechanics who can build and maintain your own stuff, which is not an option for me.

Sounds good until a drought hits and you can't find hay. I hate hay equipment, and baleing hay but it is the only way to insure my supply. I operate on the philosphy there is no such thing as too much hay. Ask the people of central Texas that have been a drought. I went through two years worth of hay last year holdin an entire calf crop until prices got back up, the difference was I had the hay and could hold them.

I couldn;t agree more! Being able to cut when the hay is ready instead of being at the mercy of the hay cutters/suppliers is worth the expense to me. May hurt the bottom line but I don;t have to worry about how much supplements will cost over the winter.

 

[alacattleman]

Sounds good until a drought hits and you can't find hay. I hate hay equipment, and baleing hay but it is the only way to insure my supply. I operate on the philosphy there is no such thing as too much hay. Ask the people of central Texas that have been a drought. I went through two years worth of hay last year holdin an entire calf crop until prices got back up, the difference was I had the hay and could hold them.[/quote]

I couldn;t agree more! Being able to cut when the hay is ready instead of being at the mercy of the hay cutters/suppliers is worth the expense to me. May hurt the bottom line but I don;t have to worry about how much supplements will cost over the winter.[/quote].....having effecient cattle goes along way dont it

 

[mnmtranching]

Cutting your own hay vs buying it. I don't think it pays to have the line of haying equipment and cut only part of your hay supply. If you have to still buy hay then you might as well not have the expense of the haying machinery.
My stuff isn't in good enough shape to do custom, I just work on getting my stuff done.

The last 4 years are the only times I've had to buy hay. Drought really is the # killer. Max I paid was $120 a ton but only for a couple loads. Most of the hay at $70 - $80 per ton. Western and NW MN produces a lot of hay even in drought years. The type of soil and land that hardly ever gets dry. To much rain there is the killer.
I cut the cow numbers in those 4 years from 120 to 80 and would like to build back up.
Corn silage has been a big help in the dry years. My chopper by the way cost me $600. And the back unloaders were $400 each.

 

[TexasBred]

:idea: So what does everyone else spend money on that they don't? I'd be willing to bet their is more to it than the equipment they spend money on.

One friend spends most of his on booze and women...the rest he said he just wastes. :lol:

 

[TexasBred]

I read an article that advised that the best thing to do is to buy your hay. It said the money spent on equipment and the land that you use tied up in hay rather than having more cows is not worth it. Of course you would have to be careful and watch what you buy and what you pay for it.

I buy all my hay. Usually will probe the hay, have it tested and negotiate price based on quality and moisture.

 

[grannysoo]

I can also buy it in the good years for anywhere from $16-22 a bale and store it. :cboy:

I'll pile my hay up and burn it before it'll get sold for anywhere near that price.......


All of my haying equipment was bought used, including the baler. I've still got the used equipment and it works great, with the exception of the baler. I broke down and bought me a brand new shiny green one 5 years ago and it still looks new. When you figure that I'm going to be using it for the next 40 years, the price per year that it costs me ain't too bad......

 

[mnmtranching]

Grannysoo, that's good, you think looong term. 40 more years :clap: Your gonna get your moneys worth out of that baler. Maybe some repairs now and then. My baler I bought new in? ummm 91 I think :? Actually it was a demo already had a quite a few bales through it. Been a very worth while investment, she seems to go and go. The floor has worn through, I'm going to need to figure out something. :roll:

 

[grannysoo]

Grannysoo, that's good, you think looong term. 40 more years :clap: Your gonna get your moneys worth out of that baler. Maybe some repairs now and then. My baler I bought new in? ummm 91 I think :? Actually it was a demo already had a quite a few bales through it. Been a very worth while investment, she seems to go and go. The floor has worn through, I'm going to need to figure out something. :roll:

And those people from the green store wanted me to trade it in after 4 years. You know... only 1 more payment left to go, so trade it in and get a new one. That way, you'll have 5 more years of payments left. EVERYBODY in the hay business does it that way they say. That bunch of salesmen should be weathermen. They can lie just as well.

And yes, I figure by the time I'm in my 80's (if I last that long), I'll quit baling hay. So 40 more years puts me in the mid/late 80's.

If you keep them greased, keep them cleaned, and take care of the little things, then the little things don't turn into big things.

Once again, you can make money in the cow business. Here are my 3 basic rules that should be followed as much as possible:

1. Stay out of the feed store.
2. Stay out of the tractor store.
3. Stay away from the vet's office (within reason).

 

[talldog]

Grannysoo, that's good, you think looong term. 40 more years :clap: Your gonna get your moneys worth out of that baler. Maybe some repairs now and then. My baler I bought new in? ummm 91 I think :? Actually it was a demo already had a quite a few bales through it. Been a very worth while investment, she seems to go and go. The floor has worn through, I'm going to need to figure out something. :roll:

And those people from the green store wanted me to trade it in after 4 years. You know... only 1 more payment left to go, so trade it in and get a new one. That way, you'll have 5 more years of payments left. EVERYBODY in the hay business does it that way they say. That bunch of salesmen should be weathermen. They can lie just as well.

And yes, I figure by the time I'm in my 80's (if I last that long), I'll quit baling hay. So 40 more years puts me in the mid/late 80's.

If you keep them greased, keep them cleaned, and take care of the little things, then the little things don't turn into big things.

Once again, you can make money in the cow business. Here are my 3 basic rules that should be followed as much as possible:

1. Stay out of the feed store.
2. Stay out of the tractor store.
3. Stay away from the vet's office (within reason).

Huuuummmmmmm !! You forgot ----The Sale Barn !!! :wave:

 

[Caustic Burno]

Nothing wrong with the salebarn its just not a place for rookies or cattlemen that don't have a discerning eye to buy cattle.
The salebarn isn't evil its our lifeblood.
I have bought a many S/S through the years for pennies on pound and gotten two or three more calves out of them before selling them as white cows.

 

[mnmtranching]

Nothing wrong with the salebarn its just not a place for rookies or cattlemen that don't have a discerning eye to buy cattle.
The salebarn isn't evil its our lifeblood.
I have bought a many S/S through the years for pennies on pound and gotten two or three more calves out of them before selling them as white cows.

There's another part of "making money in the cattle business" that needs to be explored. Cattle buyers working the sale barns. Many are doing REAL well. I know a few that have been doing it for years, and they are NOT living in poverty.

 

[grannysoo]

If you know what you're looking for, and have an area to quarantine, you can make money by going to the sale barn. If you don't, you can lose your donkey!

 

[talldog]

I lost my Donkey and---Don't know where to find it !!!! :banana:

 

[irked]

I have bought a many S/S through the years for pennies on pound and gotten two or three more calves out of them before selling them as white cows.

i doubt if it's cost-effective for anyone to try to sell white cows unless they're in an area that has a lot of cheap corn and are close to cow slaughter as well.


are you sure you even know what a white cow is? i'm starting to smell smoke because this doesn't really make any sense when taken in context with some of your previous posts about how opposed you are to feeding cows. for those that don't know, premium whites are cows that have been fed grain long enough to turn their fat white and basically get them to a usda grade of commercial. they carry more muscling and flesh than even utility breakers. in other words, if she's a white cow, she is a very, very fleshy cow that has consumed a lot of corn. if it helps to visualize, she probably has a bcs approaching 8. how can you sell white cows when you claim that you don't feed cows?

 

[xbred]

learned one today...."white cow"....been around slaughter houses and sale barns and cattle all my life..never heard of "white cow" I have heard of "He of she will cut yellow"....thanks//

 

[Caustic Burno]

You don't need corn or grain to fatten cows.

 

[backhoeboogie]

You don't need corn or grain to fatten cows.

If anyone saw mine right now on grass, they'd have to agree with you CB.

 

[mnmtranching]

We call them "fed cows" and feeding cows is common. But certainly not aged cows, aged cows won't gain efficiently even on grain let alone putting weight on with roughage only.
The cows to look for at a sale for feeding should be with full frame say 3-7 years old. Just off the calf, thin but other wise healthy. Bought in Oct-Dec as cow numbers going to slaughter are at a peak. Buy the 1100 hundred pound cows in the low .40's Sell the kill cows in Mar-Apr weighing 1350 at .55.