make money

[Sir Loin]

marksmu

Re:

We select October/November to allow the cows about 1.5-2 months to gain condition prior to re-breeding (snip) we keep all our animals until we get to around 750-800lbs. (snip) I will hold as many steers back to finish as I have people willing to put a deposit down on

Perfect!! That's where the real money is!
I couldn't do it better!

Re:

We have enough land to do some things poorly and in uneconomical way

At least you are willing to admit it and that is the first step in the right direction.
Now all you need is a little time and a few bucks and I'm sure you will reach your goal.

Re:

Im looking to cap the herd at 250 pairs.

Good for you! Then you can do the delicate dance between grazing and over grazing.
And that is exactly where you want to be to maximize your profit.

Sounds like a plan to me, stick to it and best of luck.
SL

PS Now every time I pray for a hurricane from the gulf because I need rain, I will think of you.

 

[marksmu]

Please no hurricane or at least have it make landfall in Louisiana and just leave us with the rain like Humberto did. We bought our initial cows following the hurricane....if it happened again, we would be forced to sell out. Our whole ranch went underwater...it was 4 months after the storm before the front 68 acres came back to life....it was another year of fencing every weekend before we got the back 700 acres fenced in again...it took another 6 months to remove all the houses that were deposited all over our property from Bollivar (FEMA and the county did much of that though), and it is just this year that some of the fields starting growing grass again...Another storm, I dont think we could keep any cows for a year following it. It would be the end for us for several years.

 

[Caustic Burno]

Personally I don't make decisions on carrying costs now, because what I currently do for 100 head would be no different than what I would do for 70 or even 60. The grass is there, the water is there, the equipment is all paid for - so the only savings for me would be the expense of vaccinations. I still have to mow after they graze, and I still have to fix fence. We do everything else ourselves and the initial purchase was high quality cows, and since then I have been trying to improve on the original stock...We only bred them with even higher quality bulls - so the only real culls I would get rid of are the ones that have bad attitudes....possibly a couple more....but at the moment culling just means fewer calves next year...our goal is to have our own genetics, not continually buy in new ones. We will buy bulls, but we are trying to raise our own replacements. They work well in our area, and its tough to buy the ones that can deal with the mosquitoes, salt, and other issues we have along the coast.

We probably could make more money running some short terms stockers on our excess grass, but I have been hesitant to bring outside animals because I dont want to take the chance that I introduce disease, or buy crazies that I cant move/work or who go through fences..I've got gentle easy to work, easy to move cows and bulls that will follow me off a cliff for 2 bags of cubes....They respect fences and they know our property. My main goal from the start has been efficiency....I try to make it where 3 people (my dad, me, friend) can do everything in one day a week. If I have animals that do not fall into line - I have to get rid of them, b/c I dont have the time to deal with crazy.

It doesn't matter if you have one or a thousand there is still a cost your's might be 50 cents a day it might be two dollars.
Everytime you crank a tractor, or a truck for the cow's that is an expense,worm, cube, taxes,repair fence. Hay has a cost as well, before I sold my equipment this year it was costing me 36 dollars a bale to bale my own hay. I understand retaining genetics it has a cost that you can't write off as you have already wrote off the upkeep to raise the heifer if she die's. At my cost to retain a heifer would run 1972 dollars that makes no sense. You have 365 days in the dam at 205 days the heifer is a cost you have another 160 day's to get her to a year old another 60 days until breeding age and 283 days before she calf's and another 205 before you sell here calf. You carried the dam for another 365 days with no return. At a dollar a day that retained heifer cost you 1250 bucks. Is it really cheaper to retain your genetics or go buy a working cow with better genetic's. Heifers are a crap shoot to begin with if you loose one there is no write off to a farm raised animal other than the cost to raise and upkeep her. How do really know what she cost?
I am not picking you or anyone else this is a business.
I had to make a business decision this year and sold 2/3's of mine and hay equipment. There will be a profit in the drought due to the sell off. I still expect the remaining girls to make money. Why subsidise the American public off your back?

 

[Caustic Burno]

Please no hurricane or at least have it make landfall in Louisiana and just leave us with the rain like Humberto did. We bought our initial cows following the hurricane....if it happened again, we would be forced to sell out. Our whole ranch went underwater...it was 4 months after the storm before the front 68 acres came back to life....it was another year of fencing every weekend before we got the back 700 acres fenced in again...it took another 6 months to remove all the houses that were deposited all over our property from Bollivar (FEMA and the county did much of that though), and it is just this year that some of the fields starting growing grass again...Another storm, I dont think we could keep any cows for a year following it. It would be the end for us for several years.

Forget all hurricanes had enough with Rita and Ike and it get's worse every year I get older. I didn't have one fence on the place standing after Rita. I don't have that big of place and it came to over 10 miles of barb wire to be put back up.

 

[highgrit]

I hate to be the one to inform you but, a hurricane is headed your way its just a matter of time. If you live close to the Gulf of Mexico, or south of New Jersey you live in hurricane alley. Good Luck

 

[OLD DUSTY]

crazy farm girl,
Re:

I'm RICH!!

Yes you are! And I am extremely happy for you.
You need to get down on your knees every day and thank your father and grandfather
for all they have done for you and your boys.
And I sincerely wish you all the success in continuing your heritage.

But unfortunately not all of us were born with a silver spoon in our mouths and have not yet bred 3 free ranch hands.
We are just starting out, just as your grandfather did, but in a different time and economical world.
So please try to understand the hurdles those just starting out must over come before they too can be "RICH".
Mt best wishes for you and your's with continued riches.
SL

Sir Loin..

I most certainly DO understand the hurdles of just starting out, there had been no cattle here since the early '70's when my Grandfather and Dad were forced to sell out and go to work off the farm. Yes I did inherit the land and some 1960's equipment (which I still use!) but every animal here I bought and have raised and have gone without to support. Your right I do have 3 ranch hands...but they are far from FREE! I'm not disputing that money is not important but I do think people should put more value in the non-material portions of their lives! I could have sold the property and took the check to the bank but instead opted to bust my a$$ everyday to keep it! I also do not have the misconception that money will make me "RICH"!

CF, I think you are dead on with your thinking, unfortunately I think it flew right over sir loins head. I'm sure your dad or grandad had to live through the great depression when the economy was truly tough. My wife and I have raised four children and they were far from free, cheap, or moderately inexpensive, but worth every penny. Keep up the good work.

 

[TexasBred]

Well i'm not going to sit here and try to shyt anybody. I've always run cattle for the pure love of it. If I make a little money or if I lose a little, no big deal. Sold out in March (I think it was), a whopping 28 head of good registered brangus cattle. Brought big money. BUT didn't actually make much money. I just loved having them, developing them, improving them, feeding them, getting execise fixing up what they tried to destroy or just sitting in the middle of the pasture, drinking a few cold beers watching them. The expenses are a good deduction for tax purposes and I get an agriculture exemption on the land which saves considerable money in real estate taxes. Won't ever have hundreds of cattle and don't want that many. Only enough to enjoy and know that they will neither make me nor break me. If I had to do it for a living I'd either starve to death or have to change my whole approach. Being greatly blessed is wonderful.

 

[marksmu]

I agree there is a cost - that is my point...my costs are the same on a few or a bunch. The more head I have, the lower the cost per animal. The opportunity costs of not buying a replacement or a 3n1 are there and real, but there is also a price on a tame and healthy herd, and its tough to put on a paper. I know I am not maximizing my income the way I am currently doing it, but I am *hopefully* maximizing my lifetime return by retaining the genetics I want and having the dispositions that work for my methods. There are plenty of ways to make more than I currently make - hundreds probably - but I sat down when I started and made a 10 year plan. I started the ranch because I enjoy it immensely....but I did not want to subsidize it with my off ranch income. Worse, my wife will not allow me to subsidize it forever. So I wrote it all down on a 10 year plan. Years 1-4 were not predicted to make money unless I sold hay. I did not make/sell hay so the first 2 I lost my rear end and I subsidized it. But I knew that going in. Year 3 is ahead of schedule in that I wont lose any money and I did not make hay (though this may bite me if it does not rain). Year 4 looks like it is about where I hoped I would be.

My accounting includes every single penny spent on the place....down to the last cent....except I place no value on my own time, or that of my family/friends who come out to help. If I had to pay labor or consider lost opportunity costs based on maximum returns it would never make money - even in the best year with perfect outcomes on everything I did. Simply put I can make more money doing something else, but I will be far less happy. Money has not been able to buy the happiness and satisfaction I have with the ranch and the positive changes I see occurring. Not only that in a couple years my daughter will be old enough to enjoy it with me. Its not possible to put a price on that.

 

[Caustic Burno]

Well i'm not going to sit here and try to shyt anybody. I've always run cattle for the pure love of it. If I make a little money or if I lose a little, no big deal. Sold out in March (I think it was), a whopping 28 head of good registered brangus cattle. Brought big money. BUT didn't actually make much money. I just loved having them, developing them, improving them, feeding them, getting execise fixing up what they tried to destroy or just sitting in the middle of the pasture, drinking a few cold beers watching them. The expenses are a good deduction for tax purposes and I get an agriculture exemption on the land which saves considerable money in real estate taxes. Won't ever have hundreds of cattle and don't want that many. Only enough to enjoy and know that they will neither make me nor break me. If I had to do it for a living I'd either starve to death or have to change my whole approach. Being greatly blessed is wonderful.

TB we agree I make money sitting on the porch cow's or no cow's. I like messin with them still even all crippled up, they keep my blood pressure up. I can't remember when I didn't own a cow.
I refuse to pull money out of my savings account to feed someone else. That is what we are doing when you or I have to subsidise the cow. The cow's have there own checkbook as long as they keep it in the black they are safe. I don't care if they make one red cent as long as they pay thier way. As you and I have discussed many times the only control is over input cost that equals knowing what it cost to carry Ole Belle in the pasture.

 

[TexasBred]

Amen CB......and Mark please don't ever fall into the misbelief that doubling your herd size will double your profits. Too many good men have lost the farm with such thinking. God Bless.

 

[alisonb]

I hope you stick around CF, I like your thinkin'

Yea, doesn't seem so crazy after all ;-)

Some years are good, some bad - what sort of period would one look at to decide whether the venture has been profitable or not, about 5yrs?

 

[Sir Loin]

TexasBred

Re:

unfortunately I think it flew right over sir loins head.

Hey people!
I love the good life as much as the next guy and I shed a tear every time I have to dispatch or cull one of my animals, but that is not what this thread is about.


This thread is about "make money"!
And just because some people are in the business, or want to be in the business to "make money" there is no reason to try and send them on a guilt trip by claiming that they are in the business for the wrong reason and your motivation is superior to theirs.

People. There is absolutely nothing wrong with being a capitalist and loving the good life, all at the same time. And I can think of no other way, or wish to do it any other way then by raising cattle and caring for all types of animal in my own way.

SL
PS Any who? How many people does it take to change a light bulb?????????????

 

[Anonymous]

I've often wondered with people reporting here that they only profit 50 bucks a head..why bother? People sure have different ways of figuring profit. Using cattle profit to buy new tractors doesn't really cut into the cattle profit. I could buy 5 tractors. One for each purpose I think I would need, and take losses for the next 50 years. Or I can use one, or even 2 and accomplish the same things. Haying fields should be considered seperate on the spread sheet. Then balance the hay against the cows by figuring out what the hay costs and what you could buy it for. Or hire out the haying.
There's just so many ways to figure things, but to do it right with cattle, I think you gotta keep each area seperate and figure where your losing, profiting, and adjust accordingly. Of course, I'm just in this crazy game for fun and maybe a forced savings account.but I can tell you exactly what each one cost per day

 

[cross_7]

edit.
sorry hook posted on the wrong topic

 

[Anonymous]

Huh?????

 

[JSCATTLE]

I keep my cattle and my hay bailing seperate ... I grew up around and working cattle. Mostly my grand pa s and neighbors ... About 10 years ago I bought my own cattle after my grand pa died.. for the past several years my cattle check has paid my land note .. its only 200 acres .. but I lease 800 acres. I usually bale 150 acres for my self. And several places for other people ... In 2 years I paid off my baler from custom bailing..my cows eat fertilized hay .. unless in a drought.. no cubes etc. I can usually sell enough hay to cover fertilizer and fuel .. I also have a construction company.. but that money doesn't go into the cattle ... This year I'm down from 150 momma cows to 60 .. and might sell more.. I've also kept 30 hiefers. I'm not sure you can make enough just running cows to make a living .. but you can do several things to make it.. I'm hoping when I'm 60 I can retire and have 200 acres and 75 cows tractor etc in the clear.to supplement my retirement...

 

[TennesseeTuxedo]

Sounds like a pretty good plan to me JS.

 

[dieselbeef]

..dblg my herd wont dbl my profit...dam i got it all wrong then..i knew it...

if i didnt have a property mtg and a land lease i could make a profit..but since i dont consider that a liability since i would be buying it anyways it makes it look better on paper..but not in my wallet

 

[shaz]

..dblg my herd wont dbl my profit...dam i got it all wrong then..i knew it...

if i didnt have a property mtg and a land lease i could make a profit..but since i dont consider that a liability since i would be buying it anyways it makes it look better on paper..but not in my wallet

My place cost a fair amount to keep up if I have 5 cows or 50. I plan on topping out at 75 cows an I don't think that a 30-50% more cows will increase my cost by 30-50%.
So if you got it wrong looks like I got wrong too.

 

[Brute 23]

There is no perfect recipet. Every body has a different situation so for every one "how to make money" is different. Also people have different goals for what they want out their cattle... maintain the land, cash flow, grow as an asset, ect...

Here are some of my thoughts off the top of my head.

If you cant pay cash you cant afford it.
You have to be able to keep good books.
You have to have paid for land, seperate the land as an investment from the cattle, or be able to lease some good produtive land.
You have to forget the idea that because you own cattle you must have a tractor, diesel truck, goosekneck trailer, or brand new working pens.
Make friends and try to get bulk discounts or car pool when you can.
Although hay rings, hay barns, trailers and other such items may pay for themselves over time. They do you no good if you go belly up before that time.
Keep a very healthy savings account.
In years with less than average rainfall you should have extra grass. That is normal. It only takes one drought year to whipe out 10, 20+ years of so called "money left on the table".
You calculate what you spend on cattle based off what they earn. Not try to make the cattle earn what you spend.