Lost another one - 7 wk old calf, what's the cause?

[Farminlund]

It's been a tough stretch this fall calving season with 2 lost cows & now a calf. Now that I look back on the events leading up to the calf's death, my recollection of posts related to naval ill might seem to align. The calf was born mid Sept & never seemed to have the energy the other calves had – it would nurse & get up if I came close but he always moved slow & sort of gingerly. Upon returning from a week of vacation in late Oct, I found that he had lost much hair on his forehead & on the lower portion of his legs. He was so lethargic, that when I found him that first day back, he was surrounded by black buzzards. He could walk & so slowly I got him in the corral, gave shots of LA 200, Vit A & D, & sulfa boluses. His hair easily pulled out & his stool was not too loose but sort of grey in color. He responded almost immediately with a jump in energy & a change in stool color (now more brown). On the 3rd day, I again tried to tackle him to give a second shot of LA 200 – he was fast & it took me a few laps around the pen. Let him out with the others & since then the hair on his head had nearly grown all back & some hair was beginning to cover his legs (not too much there). Two days ago I actually saw him run as I went near him to check on him. I was sure there would be no further need for doctoring. Yesterday evening after a day of light rain, I found him in the middle of pasture stretched out & slightly bloated. I managed to get him up by lifting him to his feet (he must be well over 150) but his strength let him down after about 150 yds, the tractor bucket was used to get him back to the corral. Temp was 97 deg & he had difficulty holding his head up, the eyes were somewhat glazed (not sunken though). We got him under a heat lamp for an hour or so, and then tubed him (he would not suck) with about a qt of Scours Control 2 (medicated milk replacer) & gave him a shot of LA 200. He was dead within the next 2 hours. I took him to the "back 40" today & noticed his naval was swollen & there seemed to be even like a small open hole in the center that was filled with small pieces of white "stuff".

So, is this enough info to give me a diagnosis? I had talked with the vet when he was so slow that the buzzards were about to take him, & he said to hit him with the regiment that I described above – which seemed to work well. If this were naval ill, what should I have done differently? Where did I mess up (I didn't specifically look for him yesterday AM, but I know he wasn't spread out in the middle of field)? Why such a fast turn of events? Cull the ma?

 

[Jogeephus]

I wouldn't cull the ma. Things like this are going to happen but you don't need to go leaving the animals unattended for a week. Personally, I don't like September calving. I had a lot of trouble with calves dying when I calved during this month. Don't know what it was but I won't do it again.

In my opinion, the mama's instinct is much better than what we know. I used to try and help but actually I hurt the process. Now, I leave them alone and let them do their job. 95% of the time, things will work out without our help. Thanks to twins, I have had over 100% calving rate for the past 3 years since I started this hands off policy. But we check cows at least once a day and at least twice a day when they are calving or have young calves.

 

[msscamp]

I wouldn't cull the mother, she raised this calf to 7 weeks of age so she was doing her job. I don't know what the problem was with this calf, but I'm really surprised your vet recommended LA200 when there are much better antibiotics out there - about the only thing LA200 is good for is hoof rot, and that certainly does not appear to be the problem with this calf.

 

[Diehard40]

Should have taken the calf to diagnostic lab to really find out the cause.
As far as the Ma. if she is a good cow and good producer you may want to keep her, or if she is older and feed supplies are low i would cull, although she did her job, she still technaclly isn't earning her keep this winter. Again the culling part really depends IMO on the quality of the cow and age and feed supply.

 

[Susie David]

Hate to say it but some calves just won't survive no matter how many drugs you give, dispite our best efforts we can't save them.
Hard to explain the drop in temperature. Was this the first time that you noticed the navel infection?
Without a post mortem you may never know.
Sorry for your loss.
DMc

 

[mtncows]

Infection may have come from fly damage when naval was wet.Just a guess. Can't cull Mom for that.
..

 

[Farminlund]

OK - I messed up, thought I had another one with hair loss late last evening. Spent ~30 mins trying to catch it this AM (going to check the navel & get the best antibiotics in him) - the more I ran after him or the closed I got him to the corral, the more determined he got to slip past me (ran me to near death). Yes, he's the one that I described in the original post, finally chased him to his ma to just be sure - confirmed.

So, now I lost one that I have no previous knowledge or even who it's ma is. It's surprising that I don't have a bawling ma out there. I do have a orphan in the herd, but I'm like 90+% sure he's still there. Thanks for the inputs.

As to the vet recommending LA200 - he asked what we had & made that pick - we had pen, micotil, LA200. As far as leaving them alone for a week, that's not really what we did. The person looking after them did a fairly curserary check from his pick-up, so yes things did get missed (hard to find someone to spend the time to do a thorough check).

 

[Alice]

Hate to say it but some calves just won't survive no matter how many drugs you give, dispite our best efforts we can't save them.

Sad, but oh so true. And, that's something I have to hammer into my head on occasion.

Alice

 

[Linda]

OK - I messed up, thought I had another one with hair loss late last evening. Spent ~30 mins trying to catch it this AM (going to check the navel & get the best antibiotics in him) - the more I ran after him or the closed I got him to the corral, the more determined he got to slip past me (ran me to near death). Yes, he's the one that I described in the original post, finally chased him to his ma to just be sure - confirmed.

So, now I lost one that I have no previous knowledge or even who it's ma is. It's surprising that I don't have a bawling ma out there. I do have a orphan in the herd, but I'm like 90+% sure he's still there. Thanks for the inputs.

As to the vet recommending LA200 - he asked what we had & made that pick - we had pen, micotil, LA200. As far as leaving them alone for a week, that's not really what we did. The person looking after them did a fairly curserary check from his pick-up, so yes things did get missed (hard to find someone to spend the time to do a thorough check).

Just a suggestion, but you might consider ear tagging your calves at birth so they're easier to match to their mama's.

 

[DavisBeefmasters]

The hair loss with the calf... has me thinking.

What kind of mineral program / feed program do you have set up?

Has the outside air temperature changed recently? We recently dropped in temperature to 32 in the morning vs. 50) and have had a few younger calves (7 to 9 weeks) get some runny eyes and are on the look out for quick pneumonia.

Mange, lice, etc... are any of the other calves showing hair loss besides these two?

I am sorry for your loss - just trying to assist in some reasoning as to why. But yes, sometimes it's just not meant to be for the calf and our prodding and poking just stresses us out.

 

[Farminlund]

Hi-mag loose minerals, fertilized pasture (was lush) - hair loss per the vet is a secondary symptom, not the issue itself. I checked all calves in the herd the morning I tried catching the original hair loss calf & none showed any sign of hair loss other than some burnt areas on their backends. I probably should talk to the vet about the dead one, but hate to pester him as he so busy & I can't do anything at this point anyway (except keep a closer watch). It's the quickness of the death & the hypothermia that have me a bit mystified.

My assumption is still that the swelling & the hole in the center of that swelled area points to a navel infection. I guess the small white pieces were fly eggs.

 

[fitz]

I've experienced hair loss on young calves with high fever.

fitz

 

[milkmaid]

I've experienced hair loss on young calves with high fever.

fitz

Yep -- and scours will cause it on occasion too.

Shock will kill an animal pretty quickly; once he went down, bloated, and you had to carry him back with the tractor my guess is you hadn't a chance with him. The dropped temperature was likely evidence of him going into shock and he was on his way out by then. I haven't yet figured out how to keep them alive when you start dealing with shock and severe stress.

 

[Beefy]

I've experienced hair loss on young calves with high fever.

fitz

Yep -- and scours will cause it on occasion too.

Shock will kill an animal pretty quickly; once he went down, bloated, and you had to carry him back with the tractor my guess is you hadn't a chance with him. The dropped temperature was likely evidence of him going into shock and he was on his way out by then. I haven't yet figured out how to keep them alive when you start dealing with shock and severe stress.

its hard b/c most bovines seem to be mentally weak when it comes to something like that. if they make up their mind to die theyre gone die.